16" MacBook Pro ghosting / smearing...

[mightyjabba]

I don’t think a 5K iMac screen is really a good target for comparison. We need tests between the last-gen portables and the 16”. For my part, I’ve informally compared my 16” to several other Apple portables and don’t see anything that makes me think it is significantly worse

 

[M0rpheus]

I don’t think a 5K iMac screen is really a good target for comparison.

Perhaps not the best comparison, but a comparison at least to another expensive Apple product, not even a "Pro" one at that. This iMac is 2 years old, I'd expect a newer Macbook Pro (especially at the price) to be performing at least comparatively, if not better in all aspects.

I'd welcome similar tests be done by others who have last years model or other models to compare the issue.

 

[Andropov]

I've taken some video recordings of the UFO test on both my 5K iMac and 16" Macbook Pro, at 240FPS. You can clearly see significantly worse smearing and ghosting on the 16" Macbook Pro.

Note that when recording at 240fps (or any other speed) individual frame's exposure time will depend on the amount of light received from the panel -> brighter panels will show less ghosting when recorded. If both panels were at the same brightness, the comparison is (probably) accurate. Otherwise, it's not.

 

[M0rpheus]

If both panels were at the same brightness, the comparison is (probably) accurate. Otherwise, it's not.

Good to note. I believe the 5K iMac in my eye only testing is brighter, as I have been having issues getting the 16" MBP to be anywhere near as bright to my eyes. I don't have any professional calibration equipment to test this more thoroughly. Anyone who does have this kind of equipment I would encourage to see what their findings are.

Either way, the ghosting issue is there regardless of the accuracy of these particular videos.

 

[mightyjabba]

The iMac’s display is a desktop display, and is the same one used in the iMac Pro, so the whole “it’s not even a pro product” argument doesn’t really hold any water. I just don’t think you’re going to find any portable screen up to that quality.

 

[sat24]

The iMac’s display is a desktop display, and is the same one used in the iMac Pro, so the whole “it’s not even a pro product” argument doesn’t really hold any water. I just don’t think you’re going to find any portable screen up to that quality.

I tend to agree actually! See my response a https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ry-ghosting-replacement.2214469/post-28044164.

I could not find a single portable (outside of iphones) in the Apple lineup that did not have this ghosting issue. Even the ipad Pro at 120Hz!

But the iMac was great, equivalent to my 2014 MBP. My hypothesis is that the Ive-Apple redesign of 2016+ laptops did the "lower response rates" of screens in order to either 1) make the display thinner AND/OR 2) make it be more power-efficient. Now that Ive is out, I hope Apple gets to its senses and fixes this. May be the move to miniLED will automatically fix this. Does anyone know if miniLEDs tend to have better response rates?

 

[shardey]

According to Notebookcheck the new 16" has a 34.9ms black to white response time and 52.4ms grey to grey. The previous 2018 15.4" has a 31.2ms black to white and 43.2ms grey to grey.

I wonder if that small amount is what is becoming more noticeable with current buyers of the 16"

 

[Idec50]

According to Notebookcheck the new 16" has a 34.9ms black to white response time and 52.4ms grey to grey. The previous 2018 15.4" has a 31.2ms black to white and 43.2ms grey to grey.

I wonder if that small amount is what is becoming more noticeable with current buyers of the 16"

AFAIK that is one measurement for two particular devices at a very small in time interval for each. That must fall into the statistical uncertainty. I recorded videos for both but I won’t bother posting because it shows no difference and also can’t be reliable. You need a tracking camera as mentioned on blurbusters.

Since the response time for both screens is far below most devices, I suspect that’s the real issue here, and very few people are comparing these directly. I suspect this has to do with color accuracy requirements but I am not a panel expert.

What is more interesting is whether people can confirm that is degrades even further over time or under certain conditions.

 

[Howard2k]

Do all 16”s have the same panel?

 

[RedTheReader]

My hypothesis is that the Ive-Apple redesign of 2016+ laptops did the "lower response rates" of screens in order to either 1) make the display thinner AND/OR 2) make it be more power-efficient. Now that Ive is out, I hope Apple gets to its senses and fixes this.

Look, I know that Ive has made some decisions that compromised devices’ functionality in favor of their design, but he’s also done the opposite. The Apple Watch’s square display that optimizes the function of displaying text rather than being round and looking (in most people’s eyes) better. And the iPhone’s notch? FaceID was important enough to compromise the device’ look for him. I guess what I’m trying to say is, blaming everything on I’ve doesn't seem very fair to me. You could definitely be right, but my gut feeling is that this issue wasn’t intentional.

May be the move to miniLED will automatically fix this. Does anyone know if miniLEDs tend to have better response rates?

No miniLED’s actually exist for us to know this, but what a lot of people don’t realize is that miniLED is just a normal LCD with tons of FALD lighting zones. That’s it. It’s not really it’s own display tech like IPS/VA/OLED. So nothing should be drastically different.

 

[riptidewahoo]

Do all 16”s have the same panel?

This is the key question and no one knows the answer. My hypothesis is there are different panels if people are saying they can't see this issue on theirs - to me it is incredibly obvious between a 2019 13" and the 2019 16" side by side.

 

[Nacho98]

I'm as picky as the next guy but it really seems like people are going out of their way to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Hell, one guy was absolutely bent that the 16" was garbage and after much testing realized even the prior machines he was waxing poetic about do it just the same, so there's that I guess.

I had a 2015 rMBP before this and side by side, they were the same, meaning, not a problem at all whatsoever.

 

[riptidewahoo]

I'm as picky as the next guy but it really seems like people are going out of their way to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Hell, one guy was absolutely bent that the 16" was garbage and after much testing realized even the prior machines he was waxing poetic about do it just the same, so there's that I guess.

I had a 2015 rMBP before this and side by side, they were the same, meaning, not a problem at all whatsoever.

The problem is that I cannot read scrolling text on the 16" at all. You literally have to stop the page any time you want to read text because it's ghosting so much. I don't have to do this on my 13" or any 15" I've tried in the past.

 

[nikster0029]

The problem is that I cannot read scrolling text on the 16" at all. You literally have to stop the page any time you want to read text because it's ghosting so much. I don't have to do this on my 13" or any 15" I've tried in the past.

Agreed

 

[StONE_ROdGEr]

I had a 2015 rMBP before this and side by side, they were the same, meaning, not a problem at all whatsoever.

...To you...I’d say it seems like you’ve become accustomed to the poor response time screens. And that’s fine. But it’s not like it isn’t poor.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

The problem is that I cannot read scrolling text on the 16" at all. You literally have to stop the page any time you want to read text because it's ghosting so much. I don't have to do this on my 13" or any 15" I've tried in the past.

Indeed... Especially in games like World of Warcraft... I gotta stop moving lol

 

[NeroAugustus]

My BTO 16" should be coming in a week or so, I'm very used to high refresh rate low response time screens so I'll definitely notice if the response time is very bad, I'll report my experience here.

 

[StONE_ROdGEr]

My BTO 16" should be coming in a week or so, I'm very used to high refresh rate low response time screens so I'll definitely notice if the response time is very bad, I'll report my experience here.

Look forward to seeing what you see.

 

[shivaswrath]

Those that are having the issue...so you have the upgraded graphics card or the standard one?

Upgraded is 8gb (see my build sheet).

 

[StONE_ROdGEr]

Standard, but this seems to be a screen issue. All models have a base iGPU and a dGPU.

 

[Klickst]

My 16-inch doesn't suffer from ghosting, but just registered to let you know:
Someone on a German Apple forum reported that installing 10.15.2 Beta 4 not only solved the popping issue on his 16-inch but also ghosting. Maybe it's worth trying.

 

[StONE_ROdGEr]

My 16-inch doesn't suffer from ghosting, but just registered to let you know:
Someone on a German Apple forum reported that installing 10.15.2 Beta 4 not only solved the popping issue on his 16-inch but also ghosting. Maybe it's worth trying.

Thanks! This would be great if it’s true. Can anyone who noticed it in this thread give it a try??

 

[Klickst]

Thanks! This would be great if it’s true. Can anyone who noticed it in this thread give it a try??

You're welcome.
Maybe someone is interested, here is the link to that post. But it's in German:
https://www.macuser.de/threads/macbook-v16-ist-da.836475/page-49#post-10434125
Fngers crossed!

 

[sat24]

Thanks! This would be great if it’s true. Can anyone who noticed it in this thread give it a try??

Interesting! I have a dev license and can try it soon.

 

[NeroAugustus]

My 16-inch doesn't suffer from ghosting, but just registered to let you know:
Someone on a German Apple forum reported that installing 10.15.2 Beta 4 not only solved the popping issue on his 16-inch but also ghosting. Maybe it's worth trying.

Thanks for reporting this here 👌

Let's hope someone has access to Beta builds here.