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sat24

macrumors regular
Sep 2, 2019
230
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Klickst

macrumors newbie
Dec 7, 2019
11
6
I don't know whether it's allowed here to post a link. I tried, but "awaiting moderator approval, and is invisible to normal visitors". Anyhow, here is a screenshot of that post. Fingers crossed!

Bildschirmfoto 2019-12-08 um 01.52.26.jpg
 

StONE_ROdGEr

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 23, 2019
89
74
Exciting times. I can’t help but feel like it’s hardware at the root of this problem, but if there’s a software issue too then this is interesting.
 
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sat24

macrumors regular
Sep 2, 2019
230
146
UPDATE:
I installed the 10.15.2 Beta 4 update.

1) Can confirm that it fixes the youtube audio pop. I tried Safari and Edge and tried all the actions that caused pops in the past; all those are gone now.
2) Ghosting - it is still there. May be a little bit less? But it is far from "fixed".
 

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jpiszcz

macrumors 6502
Mar 28, 2010
413
76
UPDATE:
I installed the 10.15.2 Beta 4 update.

1) Can confirm that it fixes the youtube audio pop. I tried Safari and Edge and tried all the actions that caused pops in the past; all those are gone now.
2) Ghosting - it is still there. May be a little bit less? But it is far from "fixed".

Can anyone comment how is the ghosting compared to a 2015 MacBook Pro?
 
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NeroAugustus

macrumors member
Nov 20, 2019
46
42
2) Ghosting - it is still there. May be a little bit less? But it is far from "fixed".

Thanks for the fast update.

Not too surprised tbh, response time shouldn't be software related. Is the screen any brighter? I saw someone on reddit claiming it's brighter now.

What would be great is for someone with a BTO Macbook (so a fairly late manufacturing date) to check at an Apple store if the demo models (which are probably base models straight from the release batch) have worse ghosting.
 
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NeroAugustus

macrumors member
Nov 20, 2019
46
42
I dont think so, but the lighting conditions changed in my room as I was installing the update and I also wasnt paying attention to that...

No problem, let's hope someone else will be able to check that.

Would be much simpler if there were patch notes!
 

shardey

macrumors 6502a
Jan 28, 2010
710
45
Colorado
Thanks for the fast update.

Not too surprised tbh, response time shouldn't be software related. Is the screen any brighter? I saw someone on reddit claiming it's brighter now.

What would be great is for someone with a BTO Macbook (so a fairly late manufacturing date) to check at an Apple store if the demo models (which are probably base models straight from the release batch) have worse ghosting.

I posted the response times of the 16" and the 2018 15.4" and there is a difference. Post #133.
 

NeroAugustus

macrumors member
Nov 20, 2019
46
42
I posted the response times of the 16" and the 2018 15.4" and there is a difference. Post #133.

Thank you but that was not my question, I know some 16" panels are slower than the 15", I want to know if all of them are. Notebookcheck's model is a base model so potentially from an early batch. What I want to know is if there are differences between screen batches, and a way to do that would be to compare the earliest models (like a demo unit from an apple store) to one of the latest ones, so a BTO received recently.

My hope is that only early units got ghosty screens, that way the people affected could just return their current unit and most importantly it would mean we won't have to deal with basically defective panels for this entire product cycle. If it turns out all panels have severe ghosting, I'll have to once again give up on the Macbook Pro like I've been doing for the past 4 years and get another Windows machine.
 
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sat24

macrumors regular
Sep 2, 2019
230
146
Thank you but that was not my question, I know some 16" panels are slower than the 15", I want to know if all of them are. Notebookcheck's model is a base model so potentially from an early batch. What I want to know is if there are differences between screen batches, and a way to do that would be to compare the earliest models (like a demo unit from an apple store) to one of the latest ones, so a BTO received recently.

My hope is that only early units got ghosty screens, that way the people affected could just return their current unit and most importantly it would mean we won't have to deal with basically defective panels for this entire product cycle. If it turns out all panels have severe ghosting, I'll have to once again give up on the Macbook Pro like I've been doing for the past 4 years and get another Windows machine.
I have been chasing that hypothesis already. See https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...g-panel-lottery-ghosting-replacement.2214469/ for some details.

Folks with panels as new as 11/11 and 11/14 have shown same ghosting issues. I think at this point, it is likely a "by design" feature of this panel.
 

NeroAugustus

macrumors member
Nov 20, 2019
46
42
I have been chasing that hypothesis already. See https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...g-panel-lottery-ghosting-replacement.2214469/ for some details.

Folks with panels as new as 11/11 and 11/14 have shown same ghosting issues. I think at this point, it is likely a "by design" feature of this panel.

I've seen this thread but all I saw there is that your 11/11 unit was better and that many people saying they have a newer model don't see the ghosting (but that could just be them not knowing what to look for), am I missing something?
 
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mikethebigo

macrumors 68020
May 25, 2009
2,385
1,476

Psyclism

macrumors regular
Jun 17, 2010
126
141
My BTO 2.3/32/1Tb/5500 4gb with a manufacture date of 11/25 has less ghosting than my 2016 13" Pro. Significantly less in fact. My speaker popping is extremely minor as well. So maybe later batches of this new screen are getting better?
 

StONE_ROdGEr

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 23, 2019
89
74
So when I returned my 16” I decided this was one of the options I could take - return now and buy again in like a month. So if this is true, this is great. But if it’s a lottery then 🤷‍♀️
 

katastropoulos

macrumors member
Dec 8, 2019
33
35
Germany
Hi, after reading this thread I checked my Macbook Pro 16" and noticed what is described here, as ghosting, too. But it does not really bother me. It is more noticeable when you switch to Dark Mode on Catalina.

It is a light "smear" effect while soft scrolling a page in Safari for example. But my Macbook Pro 2016 showed the same behaviour, I cannot see a difference there. It does not really bother me or maybe my "ghosting" is not as strong as others may experience, I don't know. But I personally don't have any problem with this display, it is great :)
 
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graal

macrumors newbie
Dec 7, 2019
2
1
Has anybody tried turning TrueTone off?
Would that have an effect?
I haven’t received mine yet, so I can’t test it out.
 

sat24

macrumors regular
Sep 2, 2019
230
146
Hi, after reading this thread I checked my Macbook Pro 16" and noticed what is described here, as ghosting, too. But it does not really bother me. It is more noticeable when you switch to Dark Mode on Catalina.

It is a light "smear" effect while soft scrolling a page in Safari for example. But my Macbook Pro 2016 showed the same behaviour, I cannot see a difference there. It does not really bother me or maybe my "ghosting" is not as strong as others may experience, I don't know. But I personally don't have any problem with this display, it is great :)
What is your manufacturer date? You can find it in coconutBattery app. Thanks!
 

Sanpete

macrumors 68040
Nov 17, 2016
3,695
1,665
Utah
For context, here are Notebook Check's measures of response times for recent 15" or 16" MBPs, gray to gray and black to white:

2019 16": 52.4 (23.9, 28.5), 34.9 (17.8, 17.1)
2018: 43.2 (20.4, 22.8), 31.2 (16.4, 14.8)
2017: 48 (23.6, 24.4), 33.8 (19.6, 14.2)
2016: 47.3 (22.1, 25.2), 31.2 (16.7, 14.5)
2016: 46.4 (18.8, 27.6), 39.2 (7.6, 31.6)
2016: 46 (18, 28), 56 (11, 45)

So their 16" measured 13.5% slower gray to gray than the previous average of 46.18, and 9% faster black to black than the previous average of 38.28, or 3% slower than the average of 33.85 if the 56ms outlier is excluded.

I'd guess the black to black is usually more relevant for reading scrolling text, both for video.

Not huge differences, in any case.
 

sat24

macrumors regular
Sep 2, 2019
230
146
For context, here are Notebook Check's measures of response times for recent 15" or 16" MBPs, gray to gray and black to white:

2019 16": 52.4 (23.9, 28.5), 34.9 (17.8, 17.1)
2018: 43.2 (20.4, 22.8), 31.2 (16.4, 14.8)
2017: 48 (23.6, 24.4), 33.8 (19.6, 14.2)
2016: 47.3 (22.1, 25.2), 31.2 (16.7, 14.5)
2016: 46.4 (18.8, 27.6), 39.2 (7.6, 31.6)
2016: 46 (18, 28), 56 (11, 45)

So their 16" measured 13.5% slower gray to gray than the previous average of 46.18, and 9% faster black to black than the previous average of 38.28, or 3% slower than the average of 33.85 if the 56ms outlier is excluded.

I'd guess the black to black is usually more relevant for reading scrolling text, both for video.

Not huge differences, in any case.
Any way you can also quote the values for the previous generation - pre-2016?

I ask for that because I think there was a marked change (in the negative direction) in response times from the 2014/2015 models to 2016+ models.

I also believe that the folks that are complaining here (myself included) are coming from the pre-2016 models and are noticing the biggest change, whereas the folks that came from the 2016+ are fine - either because
1) they got adjusted a while back [1-3 years is a long time :)] when they got the 2016+ laptops OR
2) they have never owned the pre-2016 models (i.e. "new" users).
 
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NeroAugustus

macrumors member
Nov 20, 2019
46
42
For context, here are Notebook Check's measures of response times for recent 15" or 16" MBPs, gray to gray and black to white:

2019 16": 52.4 (23.9, 28.5), 34.9 (17.8, 17.1)
2018: 43.2 (20.4, 22.8), 31.2 (16.4, 14.8)
2017: 48 (23.6, 24.4), 33.8 (19.6, 14.2)
2016: 47.3 (22.1, 25.2), 31.2 (16.7, 14.5)
2016: 46.4 (18.8, 27.6), 39.2 (7.6, 31.6)
2016: 46 (18, 28), 56 (11, 45)

So their 16" measured 13.5% slower gray to gray than the previous average of 46.18, and 9% faster black to black than the previous average of 38.28, or 3% slower than the average of 33.85 if the 56ms outlier is excluded.

I'd guess the black to black is usually more relevant for reading scrolling text, both for video.

Not huge differences, in any case.

Interesting, I've also seen your post regarding brightness and it does seem like this panel is just like the others. Maybe the exaggerated ghosting really is a flaw only some units have. The panel not being very fast in general means there will be some ghosting anyways, just not an excessive amount.
That would fit with what we're reading here: people saying there is no ghosting who are people used to MBP screens/don't know what to look for, people who see some ghosting, these have functioning screens but once asked to check noticed a bit of ghosting because the screens aren't especially fast and finally people who report extreme ghosting and can't even read scrolling text who are the ones with the potentially defective screens... or just not used to MBP screens.
 
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