16" MacBook Pro stuttering issue

[FilmIndustryGuy]

That lag is caused by the TouchBar and the T2. The system waits for the Touchbar to change what's on the (Touchbar) screen and the T2 (which actually drives the Touchbar) also handles all input.

Depending on applications and system load, the lag is more or less noticeable but you cannot completely fix it because of the way the system is built.


I also had some micro-freezes on my system when on the iGPU. First I got my machine exchanged like 6 times. All had the same issue. Finally, I got rid of that by installing the Big Sur beta back then when it was released (which updated the T2 firmware). It was completely solved even when booting Catalina. Now on Big Sur release, the freezing didn't came back yet.

But the iGPU still has some general lagginess. It's simply because the UHD630 is pretty weak and cannot properly drive the heavy UI system of macOS at the high resolution.
To fix that you have to do one or more of the following

a) Reduce (render) resolution
b) Reduce complexity of the window and UI system (will never happen)
c) Increase performance of the iGPU (not possible)
d) More aggressive clock scaling on the iGPU (possible by Apple). This increase power consumption and will only reduce lagginess to some degree.

Alternative: Run on the AMD GPU all the time and say goodbye to your battery time.

I noticed my MBP 16 would get laggy big time after some time of use but I mainly noticed this when I installed Big Sur and BetterTouchTool. I was suspecting its the Touch Bar software I put in causing this so what you said here sounds like what I suspected. I guess no more BetterTouchTool and probably got to run this on the 5300. The primary reason for me to have Touch Bar over physical buttons in the BetterTouchTool and if that is crap on this Mac than I dont know is Touch Bar is all that fancy since I really liked to have the DOCK on the Touch Bar.

 

[itpmguru]

I HAD exactly the same issue with my 2019 MacBook Pro 16, Intel i9 2.3GHz, 1 TB SSD, Intel UHD Graphics 630 1536 MB, AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 8 GB.

Stuttering while typing, watching videos, simply scrolling a web page...
Switching to the dedicated graphics card makes it much better but drastically reduces battery life.

Then I found https://chromeisbad.com. I had Chrome installed on my system but was only using Safari. I followed the steps to completely uninstall Chrome and the stuttering problem immediately went away.

This is unbelievable. We all were blaming Apple for bad graphic card drivers, returning hardware and so on...

The problem is caused by Googles keystone stuff which is always active even if you are not using chrome.

Give it a try and please report here if that helps you too.

I'm so happy my MacBook is running smooth now!

I have a 16" 2019 MBP 2.4 8-core , Pro 5500 AMB 8GB, 64GB, 4TB and would also have this issue. It has been worse lately and trying to figure out with all of the horsepower in these machines that this would cause an issue, but it did!

I believe zisoft is correct with his research. Although it is not related to just Chrome, those Google daemons also run if you use Google Drive. Recently Google has had issues with their app platforms and this may be why you are seeing it more now. I am sure they are polling daemons so (in my case) it can look for file changes and in the case of Chrome, can update changes back the "Mothership". I don't trust Google any further than I can throw them, that is why I only use Safari or Firefox. I will NEVER use Chrome as it is a data mining hog.

I use Catalina Cache Cleaner: https://northernsoftworks.com/MCCfeatures.html on a regular basis and it works well! You can see startup options and I found the two Google startup daemons and GOT RID OF THEM and the issue!

Thanks for this thread, it was helpful in fixing my issue!

 

[itpmguru]

Those Google Keystone daemons run when using Google Drive as well. I removed them, latency improved, but still have some stuttering when using an external dock with 2 external monitors. I think there are multiple forces at work with this issue.

 

[MrGunny94]

Those Google Keystone daemons run when using Google Drive as well. I removed them, latency improved, but still have some stuttering when using an external dock with 2 external monitors. I think there are multiple forces at work with this issue.

I also have random stuttering happening when just browsing the web and going through the UI. I think it's something with the iGPU

 

[shpakdm]

Finally find where the mistake is


Apple made a huge design mistake using Intel Coffee Lake generation processors(or power delivery design mistake for such processors) in the MacBook pro - if you turn off turbo boost on the processor - then the Intel HD 630 graphics glitches/cursor delays/input delay will disappear - well this is not our problem, Apple should have tested before selling now, we all suffer from interface/animation/cursor lag - so the solution is to turn off turbo boost - then input and cursor lag /stutteing will be gone.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

Apple made a huge design mistake using Intel Coffee Lake generation processors(or power delivery design mistake for such processors) in the MacBook pro - if you turn off turbo boost on the processor - then the Intel HD 630 graphics glitches/cursor delays/input delay will disappear - well this is not our problem, Apple should have tested before selling now, we all suffer from interface/animation/cursor lag - so the solution is to turn off turbo boost - then input and cursor lag /stutteing will be gone.

That would mean that everyone having Turbo Boost enabled would have this issue, which is not the case. I did not have this issue in the beginning, then it started to show up when I tested different applications and it went away eventually after I removed some applications and updated the OS. This is clearly software/driver related.

 

[shpakdm]

this is because these applications actively use turbo-boost, which leads to an interface stuttering

 

[shpakdm]

That would mean that everyone having Turbo Boost enabled would have this issue, which is not the case. I did not have this issue in the beginning, then it started to show up when I tested different applications and it went away eventually after I removed some applications and updated the OS. This is clearly software/driver related.

this is because these applications actively use turbo-boost, which leads to an interface stuttering. Just turn off the turbo-boost - and you don't need to uninstall applications - they will work ok

 

[GrumpyCoder]

this is because these applications actively use turbo-boost, which leads to an interface stuttering. Just turn off the turbo-boost - and you don't need to uninstall applications - they will work ok

First of all, I've not uninstalled applications due to stuttering, but because I've not used them anymore.

Second, you say applications actively use turbo-boost. What exactly do you mean? Application don't have to support Turbo Boost, this is a processor feature, so every application supports it as long as the processor does. If you're saying that this is somehow integrated into the application, please provide a link to developer documentation that shows how this (whatever you mean) works.

I have Turbo Boost enabled, my CPU is using it when necessary and there is no stuttering for me currently. I've had this issue in the past, but it's gone right now. I'm not saying it can't come back though. Again, this is a software issue.

 

[shpakdm]

First of all, I've not uninstalled applications due to stuttering, but because I've not used them anymore.

Second, you say applications actively use turbo-boost. What exactly do you mean? Application don't have to support Turbo Boost, this is a processor feature, so every application supports it as long as the processor does. If you're saying that this is somehow integrated into the application, please provide a link to developer documentation that shows how this (whatever you mean) works.

I have Turbo Boost enabled, my CPU is using it when necessary and there is no stuttering for me currently. I've had this issue in the past, but it's gone right now. I'm not saying it can't come back though. Again, this is a software issue.

Thank you man for you explanation. I am software engineer and yes application can cause or not cause processor turboboost feature

 

[shpakdm]

Thank you man for you explanation. I am software engineer and yes application can cause or not cause processor turboboost feature

And i agree that this is regulated by proccessor but - how match turboboost and how long you need this is regulated by you app need and in low level by processor

 

[GrumpyCoder]

And i agree that this is regulated by proccessor but - how match turboboost and how long you need this is regulated by you app need and in low level by processor

I'm still not sure what you're saying. I've developed software for over 30 years now as well. I've studied electrical engineering and then computer science, worked in the industry for a while and am now researching and teaching at a university (math and computer science bachelor and master level students). Although my research area is more deep learning and AI related, I've never had to write code that would explicitly allow Turbo Boost. This is all done under the hood by ACPI C-states. So while Turbo Boost behavior can be modified, I've never seen any app doing it explicitly.

But in any case, I'm running apps, the cores are utilizing Turbo Boost and I have no stutter. If this were Turbo Boost related I'd expect to see stutter as soon as Turbo Boost kicks in or is beyond a certain threshold.

 

[robinp]

I’ve got an issue with my one. It’s an 8core 2.3 model with 5500m 4GB and 64GB ram.

I’m mentioning this here because I first noticed the problem as general lag. Slow opening apps. Safari slow to load grid of favourites. Slow doing everything including typing etc.

After much investigation, I’ve discovered there is an issue where the CPU reduces its clock speed to 1ghz. It won’t go higher. This issue is resolved temporarily with a restart. Then once a day or so, the problem reappears.

When working correctly I get Geekbench score of around 1100SC & 7200MC. When the glitch is occurs gET around 250SC & 2200MC. It is painfully slow.

I’ve been talking to apple about it and their only real advice is to try a full reinstall and see if that helps. If not, I’ll have to take it to the Genius Bar.

I thought I’d mention it here because it seems like there might be a chance that some of you are suffering from the same issue. The thing that first alerted me to the problem was that the fans weren’t coming on when doing CPU intensive tasks despite everything taking forever.

To check the clock speed of your CPU, search for and install the intel power gadget. You should see that the graph for GHZ varies over time. Mine is a flat horizontal line at 1Ghz.

Ok, I'm pretty sure I've now discovered what was wrong with my MacBook Pro. And actually, it wasn't actually my MacBook Pro that was at fault.

It was my CalDigit TS3+. I was having other issues with it and returned it to CalDigit. Since reverting to using another device for connecting my external monitor, my MacBook Pro hasn't done this extreme throttling once.

With the TS3+ it was doing at least once per day. For about a week now, I've not had it happen a single time.

Just posting here in case it helps others track down the cause of their problems.

 

[shpakdm]

I’ve got an issue with my one. It’s an 8core 2.3 model with 5500m 4GB and 64GB ram.

I’m mentioning this here because I first noticed the problem as general lag. Slow opening apps. Safari slow to load grid of favourites. Slow doing everything including typing etc.

After much investigation, I’ve discovered there is an issue where the CPU reduces its clock speed to 1ghz. It won’t go higher. This issue is resolved temporarily with a restart. Then once a day or so, the problem reappears.

When working correctly I get Geekbench score of around 1100SC & 7200MC. When the glitch is occurs gET around 250SC & 2200MC. It is painfully slow.

I’ve been talking to apple about it and their only real advice is to try a full reinstall and see if that helps. If not, I’ll have to take it to the Genius Bar.

I thought I’d mention it here because it seems like there might be a chance that some of you are suffering from the same issue. The thing that first alerted me to the problem was that the fans weren’t coming on when doing CPU intensive tasks despite everything taking forever.

To check the clock speed of your CPU, search for and install the intel power gadget. You should see that the graph for GHZ varies over time. Mine is a flat horizontal line at 1Ghz.

Same for - nothing helps - may help a little to turn off the turbo boost but not for a long time

 

[shpakdm]

I usually see interface stutters when spikes in frequency happened(smth with driver seems or intel hd graphics can't handle such heavy ui in default macbook pro 16 inch resolution ).I use intel power gadget to track such spikes - when stutter occurs i immediately see frequency spike to the maximum of GPU frequency(1,15)in intel power gadget

 

[robinp]

If anyone's interested in the throttling I was seeing. Here's a screenshot from the Intel Power Gadget. Notice the flat line at 1Ghz for CPU and 0Ghz for GPU.

 

[GumaRodak]

Well, i think flat line isnt trotling..throtling is usualy looks like spikes?

 

[robinp]

Well, i think flat line isnt trotling..throtling is usualy looks like spikes?

It is normal to see spikes. That's the CPU turbo boosting / varying frequency as the workload changes.

Perhaps what you're thinking of is when putting the CPU under heavy, continuous load, you would expect it to be a a roughly continuous line with a bit of wobble in it.

I think what you're talking about is thermal throttling when the machine overheats and the CPU drops clock speed to reduce energy use and therefore heat output.

The word throttling predates CPUs and generally means restricting / limiting. In my example above, something was limiting (or throttling) the CPU clock speed to 1Ghz.

Here's an example below. The flat bit to the left is me rendering an image. Note that generally the clock speed is 2.5-3Ghz, to the right is more normal usage where the CPU clock speed varies more depending on what the machine is doing. Higher clock speeds at times, but presumably fewer cores active; at other times lower clock speed. Overall energy use is much less to the right.

Ultimately though, it doesn't really matter what you call it. The CPU being limited to 1Ghz is horrible. And it would seem it was being caused by my CalDigit TS3+. Potentially useful info for others.

 

[shpakdm]

I tested the same laptop - only the release date is 2020 november (my laptop 2019 december) - and it has no input/lag - cursor stuttering

 

[randolorian]

It is normal to see spikes. That's the CPU turbo boosting / varying frequency as the workload changes.

Perhaps what you're thinking of is when putting the CPU under heavy, continuous load, you would expect it to be a a roughly continuous line with a bit of wobble in it.

I think what you're talking about is thermal throttling when the machine overheats and the CPU drops clock speed to reduce energy use and therefore heat output.

The word throttling predates CPUs and generally means restricting / limiting. In my example above, something was limiting (or throttling) the CPU clock speed to 1Ghz.

Here's an example below. The flat bit to the left is me rendering an image. Note that generally the clock speed is 2.5-3Ghz, to the right is more normal usage where the CPU clock speed varies more depending on what the machine is doing. Higher clock speeds at times, but presumably fewer cores active; at other times lower clock speed. Overall energy use is much less to the right.

Ultimately though, it doesn't really matter what you call it. The CPU being limited to 1Ghz is horrible. And it would seem it was being caused by my CalDigit TS3+. Potentially useful info for others.

I have the same problem on a 16” MBP with TS3+: The CPU frequency occasionally will be locked to 1GHz when waking from sleep.

 

[randolorian]

I have the same problem on a 16” MBP with TS3+: The CPU frequency occasionally will be locked to 1GHz when waking from sleep.

I just unplugged power from the TS3 while it was connected to the MBP. Plugged it back in, and my Mac was no longer locked to 1GHz.

 

[robinp]

I just unplugged power from the TS3 while it was connected to the MBP. Plugged it back in, and my Mac was no longer locked to 1GHz.

Interesting. Can I suggest you email support@caldigit.com? I've been in discussions with a guy called Kevin there and it seemed like they they had never come across it before.

I should add that I have a TS3 (not a +) as well and that seems to be fine. It was just the TS3+ that caused the problem. I've since sent it back and got a refund.

 

[GumaRodak]

Good to hear that you was able to identify possible rootcase. I meant trottling like u described with the thermal protection, so not your case. Maybe its some protection of circuitry, if something is wrong with dongle, or so. That the complete supply voltage of parts drops down. Maybe istat menus can help, they monitor the voltage lvls too.

 

[shpakdm]

I understand the difference when stuttering occur when doesn’t. I have encoded a few serial numbers of the same model. And the model that was manufactured Date of manufacture= China Week 50 of 2020 *Quanta Computer Subsidiary doesn’t have Intel GPU Stuttering. Other laptops that were manufactured at week 49 of 2019 have such stuttering

 

[gustavolsson]

Hi everyone, another MBP 16" i9, 5500M 8GB GPU, 32gb ram with stuttering problems here..

I have been debugging this issue for quite some time and these are my findings:
* The problem seems to be related to automatic graphics switching in macOS Big Sur
* I've reformatted my machine multiple times and have confirmed that it does not happen on macOS Catalina
* The stuttering appears on a cleanly formatted machine running Big Sur (I see the problem in Finder; absolutely no 3rd party software installed), but only if automatic graphics switching is turned on in the power settings (default setting)
* From googling the issue, the problem seems to be limited to early MacBook Pro 16" (late 2019) with 8800M 8gb dGPU cards (and potentially limited to i9 CPUs, but that I'm not sure of)

My guess is that Big Sur is slightly more graphics intensive than Catalina and triggers a iGPU -> dGPU switch (stutter occurs), only to go back to the iGPU because of the relatively low load, then this repeats itself after 8-15 seconds because of a driver cooldown timer (hysteresis to avoid too many switches).

I've been in contact with Apple support and they suggest I turn off automatic graphics switching (which degrades the battery more quickly) or run Catalina (which I cannot do because I need to run the latest development tools etc). So I guess I paid 4k+ EUR for a configuration that so few people have that Apple won't spend the time to fix the issue :/

Does turning off graphics switching solve the problem for you or are we dealing with multiple stuttering problems?