1Password migrants thread

[maflynn]

My 1Password subscription ends in March, and I'll probably keep using that up until the expiration period, but I feel that I should revisit BitWarden. While I gave them a cursory look last year (before settling in on 1Password), I'll give them another look

I'm not off to a great start - trying to log in on my existing account, I'm presented with a spinning wheel. After a few refreshes and closing/starting chrome I get logged in - not sure what happened. I imported my 1Password data and poked around on the website - its been a while since I logged in


Installed the chrome password and boom similar issues. Spinny thing and then once I'm authenticated, No data. Close Chrome, grab a cup of coffee and try again and my data is now there and no spinny thing



So now I'm off like a herd of turtles and and using it seems decent enough. I won't pull the plug on this yet but put the password manager through its paces. The next step will be to install it on my phone and see how that works as well.

 

[RusHayer]

I’m really disappointed to see this topic goes the way when some 1Password advocates starting personal attacks on OP. I’m really grateful to OP for this topic, there is a lot of useful information here and it helped me to make a choice.

BTW I decided to try Enpass. WiFi sync and lifetime purchase were the primary reasons for it.

 

[MisterSavage]

So now I'm off like a herd of turtles and and using it seems decent enough. I won't pull the plug on this yet but put the password manager through its paces. The next step will be to install it on my phone and see how that works as well.

OMG you picked the worst time ever to try Bitwarden again! There was maintenance last night and it looks like there was an issue this morning. Here's the thread about it and yes a Bitwarden employee commented in it.

The good part is that now that you have a local copy of your data in the Chrome extension you can use that even during an outage. You wouldn't be able to make edits to your data until it can talk to the server again though.

 

[maflynn]

OMG you picked the worst time ever to try Bitwarden again!

As the saying goes, if it wasn't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all

I had googled around prior to posting, but that explains a lot.

Thanks for the heads up

 

[hajime]

Do you have access to an iCloud backup for your old iPad Pro? If so, you could try erasing your new iPad and restoring it from the iCloud backup. That would resurrect your 1Password on the new iPad. I don't believe they are under any obligation to host old iOS installers on the App Store.

BTW, I purchased 1Password several years ago before the days of subscription, and it still gets updated regularly, now at version 7.9.3. I have upgraded my phones and iPads several times, each time from an iCloud backup, and 1Password has come along for the ride. So I'm not sure I buy the security argument.

I also have 1Password 7 for the Mac (perpetual license) which also gets updated from time to time. Thankfully, this is a Universal build, so it works on Apple Silicon or Intel. Last week, I got an Apple Silicon MacBook Pro, and the installer ran ok. The version 7 installer is still available on the downloads area https://1password.com/downloads/mac/ but I made sure I had a copy of the installer and license file on my machine, just in case. When starting up for the 1st time on my new MacBook, it asked if I had an iCloud vault (which I did), and it announced that I am licensed, so I didn't need to use the license file again.

I did not do an iCloud backup manually. Not sure if it was done automatically. Is it possible to restore only 1Password from iCloud backup?

I would prefer to have the new iPad Pro separate from the old one but it looks like when I signed in to my AppleID, some files got copied to my new iPad automatically. I did have to install all the app from scratch. This is good as some are optimized for M1 iPad Pro.

 

[svenmany]

That’s an insane number of employees, for what their (relatively simple) flagship product actually does. I can only imagine that they get a ton of support calls from customers, and have a huge team to deal with that. Then they’ll have a sales team, an HR team, a payroll team, a legal team… that’s where your subscription money is going.

I have to say that it worried we when I read that. It made me think that they might be less focused on the security of their product because of corporate distractions. But, hopefully, it actually means they also have a much larger department focused on security of their product and internet exposure.

I hope they don't lose the spirit of the company in the face of such growth. I went to their "About Us" page and see a presentation of only their founders, executive team, board of directors, and board of advisors. I was hoping for some evidence of the people working on the product and their credentials.

I did see the CTO mentioned. I looked him up. At first blush, I wasn't impressed, but I only looked at his linked in profile. For political reasons, I found it distasteful that his last job was 12 years spent at Facebook. In fact, I'm a bit extreme in that; I find that it exposes a lack of ethics right at the top of the company.

 

[MacBH928]

Nicer for the developer is not greed which is what you're accusing the publisher.

when the developer asks maximum its greed like healthcare prices for example $2000 for an ambulance ride.

The same argument can be made for text editors (ultraedit is on a subscription based model), photo management (Adobe Lightroom is on sub), word processors (ms word has a sub)

Yes it can and so people choose other options like BBEDIT can be bought for license, WPS, and LibreOffice for free.

You better double check who you use as an example - Bombich does in fact have a subscription service for their maintenance program - Regardless, Its not either, or, right or wrong. Just because one publisher chooses a perpetual license means anyone who chooses a subscription is greedy.

View attachment 1924653

I am not sure what software maintenance is but I can tell you I bought CCC like 8 years ago I still receive updates, although I bought the upgrades. A publisher can choose whatever price or payment method he choses, I too have an option to express my opinion and choose who I buy from

I think you're doing a disservice by saying all it does is store texts. They have infrastructure, security, developers, more overhead then just storing some text somewhere.

"They have infrastructure, security, developers, more overhead then just storing some text somewhere"

I am not sure what you are saying but both KeePass and SafeInCloud are 1 man team. They more or less do the exact same thing 1password does, in fact some people choose it over 1password as an option. There are other options like minimalist.

 

[MacBH928]

US health care prices do feel like oppression. I feel no oppression from 1Password since I can just find an alternative. If you're suggesting that 1Password is oppressing people, then you might be too emotionally invested in that company. You also wish them harm; that's another sign. Unfortunately, couple's therapy is not on the table.

Yeah, business that are toxic to the community like privacy invasive ones, ones that use oligopoly power to force higher prices, ones that use unethical business practices, harm the environment, or sell harmful and addictive substances like cigarettes... if you do wish them well, I don't.

 

[MacBH928]

That seems overly bitter, they're providing a service but you want to see them fail? That just seems way over the top, they're just a software company. Don't like what they offer or their terms - move on, but to wish them to go out of business seems, well, kind of sad.

Also the comment of charging more for the same product, really doesn't hold water, do you make the same complaints about Tesla charging more for the same product as other car makers, or Macs because its the same product as other computers?

we are moving on, this whole thread is about being upset by their offering and moving on.

Your example does not stand, this is not equivalent of Tesla charging more for their cars. This is equivilant to Toyota Camry being sold last year for $25K , this year its on subscription for $961/m, stop paying and they will withdraw the car.(yes the subscription of the Camry is the quiviliant of 1password, which is 3.75% each month of the original selling price)

 

[MacBH928]

Unfortunately you see this as two opposing forces battling it out. For some reason you've placed me in the opposing camp and are intentionally misrepresenting me to enforce that view.

That's where I'm at - I'm not a fan of the choices the 1Password team has made, but yet, I still find value in using 1Password and since I've already paid for the year, I don't have make a decision to leave quite yet.

Also I'm not a fan of subscriptions, I understand the benefit for publishers but I usually try to avoid them myself, though I do have some right now, including 1PAssword

I dont understand you 2 guys, at one point you defend 1password actions saying it has great offering and their subscription is justifiable and great value to keep the app secure and up to date. Then you claim "I'm not a fan of the choices the 1Password team has made" and "you've placed me in the opposing camp and are intentionally misrepresenting me to enforce that view"

 

[svenmany]

Yeah, business that are toxic to the community like privacy invasive ones, ones that use oligopoly power to force higher prices, ones that use unethical business practices, harm the environment, or sell harmful and addictive substances like cigarettes... if you do wish them well, I don't.

I have a feeling that in real life we are on the same side of most issues. My gut tells me that 1Password doesn't fit into the categories you describe. This might be a good time to just agree to disagree.

However, I consider companies like Facebook to be on a par with cigarette companies and do fit into the categories you mention. The fact that 1Password's new CTO spent 12 years there, just before switching to 1Password, is bothering me more and more as I think about it.

 

[svenmany]

I dont understand you 2 guys, at one point you defend 1password actions saying it has great offering and their subscription is justifiable and great value to keep the app secure and up to date. Then you claim "I'm not a fan of the choices the 1Password team has made" and "you've placed me in the opposing camp and are intentionally misrepresenting me to enforce that view"

Yeah, I hear you. Our position is maybe a bit too subtle for the black and white you want.

 

[MacBH928]

Great. Then use something else and quit your whining.

Why are you in this thread? This thread titled "1Password migrants thread" people who are upset with the changes of 1password(whining) and looking for an alternative.

All contributors here agree that 1password is a great app and we all chose it(migrants thread), and still recommend it to anyone who is ok with subscription, electron, and storing his data in their servers and not giving you an option to store locally or buy a license.

 

[svenmany]

I am not sure what you are saying...

You might be reading a bit too much into what @maflynn is saying. I would extrapolate on their point by saying that you are doing all password managers a disservice by saying all they do is store text. Maybe you were just exaggerating to make a point.

 

[maflynn]

I dont understand you 2 guys, at one point you defend 1password actions saying it has great offering and their subscription is justifiable and great value to keep the app secure and up to date. Then you claim "I'm not a fan of the choices the 1Password team has made"

As mentioned you're reading too much into things.

I can say that I don't like that 1Password is choosing to use electron but yet still like 1Password. It doesn't have to be black and white as you seem to imply. Not offering a perpetual license - well that's greed. Not liking a decision they made to embrace electron - well then the company is trash and they must be destroyed!

Here's the thing - I'm getting value for the subscription, pure and simple. I've reviewed and researched other password managers and 1Password is superior to them all imo. I've been (re)testing Bitwarden and its been more frustrating then I was expecting. I'm still going to put bitwarden though its paces but so far it hasn't been a great experience.

tl;dr I can still use a product even if I disagree with some of their choices.

 

[MisterSavage]

I've been (re)testing Bitwarden and its been more frustrating then I was expecting. I'm still going to put bitwarden though its paces but so far it hasn't been a great experience.

Would be happy to help if you need help configuring something. Bitwarden has actually been much more pleasant for me to use than 1Password was. I still think the UI on the desktop client is ugly though.

 

[maflynn]

Would be happy to help

Thanks,
So far things haven't stopped me, but its the little things, there seems to be a bigger performance lag in bitwarden then 1password. I find myself clicking the extension icon trying to type my password but its not ready, and I see the spinny thing after I do type in the password - its not long, its there briefly, but its long enough to interrupt my flow.

I'm not sure if I like the how bitwarden does the autofill. This morning I thought I did, but now, I'm not sure - at this point I'm thinking that I'm used to 1password's way of doing things which is why I'm wanting to give bitwarden more time.

I still think the UI on the desktop client is ugly though.

The UI/UX is definitely a factor in determining which application to use but its not a show stopper

 

[MisterSavage]

Thanks,
So far things haven't stopped me, but its the little things, there seems to be a bigger performance lag in bitwarden then 1password. I find myself clicking the extension icon trying to type my password but its not ready, and I see the spinny thing after I do type in the password - its not long, its there briefly, but its long enough to interrupt my flow.

I've got my extension set so that it doesn't make me log in again until the browser restarts so I can go quite a stretch without typing in my password there.

I'm not sure if I like the how bitwarden does the autofill. This morning I thought I did, but now, I'm not sure - at this point I'm thinking that I'm used to 1password's way of doing things which is why I'm wanting to give bitwarden more time.

FYI, there's more than one way to do autofill. If you're on a website in the extension you can click the white space between words and button on the entry and it will fill in the username/password. Also, if you're autofilling with the keyboard shortcut if you hit the shortcut twice it will fill in the next account it finds for that website. It will also remember the last one you used for the next time you use the shortcut.

 

[maflynn]

there's more than one way to do autofill

I'll check that out today - thanks.

I found that I can unlock the extension by using a pin - I'm going to say that's a really nice feature. I have a somewhat complex master password - nothing crazy but complex enough that I have some semblance of peace of mind

If I jump back and forth between computers (as I do during the day using a KVM, I usually need to type in the master password. Now just the PIN

I'll keep plugging away with bitwarden - I think today I'll load it on my iPhone and see how it works there, I'm hoping I don't lose any ease of use on that platform

 

[Zulithe]

bitwarden for me. it's not the prettiest or the most feature-rich but it does enough and costs me $0 (for now...)

 

[hmorneau]

Too me Bitwarden UX wise it's much worst than 1password. And I'm not talking about the UI (how pretty or not it is).

Example:

• You open the Bitwarden extension to save a new login, as soon as you click outside the Bitwarden window, it closes down without warning and you lose all none saved changes.
• You have no "anchor" to keep the password windows on top like in 1Password, which I was using quite a bit.
• If you create a custom field for a password (hidden type), you have no way to quickly generate a password. So you need to go to the password generator tab, but by doing so, you lose your unsaved change.
• It doesn't always (or at least it's not as consistent as 1password) offer you to save new login. I often have to go in Bitwarden to manually save the login when I create a new account somewhere.
• The OTP, in 1password auto-copy OTP for you, so you can paste it, Bitwarden does it too, but it doesn't restore what you had in there after 30 seconds.
• You cannot create sections with custom headers.
• There are fewer types of things you can save in the vault. (No database, etc.) But I managed with notes & folders.
• No tags
• You need to log in multiple times. Login in the application won't unlock the extension, the opposite is true as well.

Overall, it's all small stuff, but it adds up. I guess for someone who never tried 1password they would not mind. All the above it's from me coming from 1Password v6, so there might be other nicer stuff in v7 that I'm not even aware of.

I will stick with Bitwarden, but I hope they will improve soon. But from what I have been reading, I should not hold my breath.

 

[MisterSavage]

Example:

• You open the Bitwarden extension to save a new login, as soon as you click outside the Bitwarden window, it closes down without warning and you lose all none saved changes.

I never hit that because I hit 'save' when I want to save a new login I'm making with the extension.

• You have no "anchor" to keep the password windows on top like in 1Password, which I was using quite a bit.

That was a nice feature!

• It doesn't always (or at least it's not as consistent as 1password) offer you to save new login. I often have to go in Bitwarden to manually save the login when I create a new account somewhere.

This is something that definitely needs improving!

• There are fewer types of things you can save in the vault. (No database, etc.) But I managed with notes & folders.

This is coming Q1 2022.

• You need to log in multiple times. Login in the application won't unlock the extension, the opposite is true as well.

I end up not even using the desktop client because the extension covers almost everything I need. You could set up a pin for faster logins.

 

[MacBH928]

As mentioned you're reading too much into things.

I can say that I don't like that 1Password is choosing to use electron but yet still like 1Password. It doesn't have to be black and white as you seem to imply. Not offering a perpetual license - well that's greed. Not liking a decision they made to embrace electron - well then the company is trash and they must be destroyed!

Here's the thing - I'm getting value for the subscription, pure and simple. I've reviewed and researched other password managers and 1Password is superior to them all imo. I've been (re)testing Bitwarden and its been more frustrating then I was expecting. I'm still going to put bitwarden though its paces but so far it hasn't been a great experience.

tl;dr I can still use a product even if I disagree with some of their choices.

why dont you give enpass a shot

 

[maflynn]

why dont you give enpass a shot

Not really, its business model that is not compatible with my priorities. Mostly, due to local vaults and needing to sync them across computers/devices.

 

[Huntn]

To a degree, it can mean better. In this case, older = more experienced, and knowing the pitfalls that something newer and fresh may not know. For example: following the trend of subscription-based services while not knowing or realizing the pitfalls and security issues that come with that. But because everyone else is doing it and they want to be the most popular, 1Password is following that route, and as a result royally pissed off a fairly big number of their customers; hence, this thread.



That's the problem. I could easily write down the master password, but someone would have to not only have that single master password, but that single master password would get them access to all of the vaults in the application, regardless of whose data it is. That's the single point of failure I'm referring to.



I'm not necessarily syncing their data. They are telling me it (read: over the phone). I'm inputting it into the password manager, and saving it. I sync that between my devices, back it up, and store that backup offsite. That way I have their data for what they need as a backup in case they lose it. In effect, I'm their disaster recovery.





That is a good question. They could have had a master password to use to get to the vaults, then have the vaults have a separate password to input to get into those. That would provide that additional layer of security. Instead, there isn't that layer, so with the entry point to all vaults being that master password, I'd prefer to have that be separate to keep my families' data separate.



This is where Secret Agent comes in to help with that, doesn't it? I'm just reading up on it right now to give it a try..

BL.

Secret Agent basically let’s you search your database if an entry in your database does not match the page you are looking at. Then it will ask you if you want to associate your entry with the current page. I have not yet tried this, have not installed this on my PC, but I assume it works the same way there. When I use Chrome (due to lack of keychain support?) on my Mac it requires Secret Agent so if I am on my bank’s page, I just type in the first 3 letters of my banks name and applicable entries pop up in a list to choose from, which then fill in.