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2011 iPro = Mac Pro replacement
- Thread starter tpavur
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In small environments maybe. I have not seen a rack mount TB chassis yet, not to mention the need for redundant connectivity and other HW interactions that need SAS/ Fibre. PCI slots are a cool thing to still have.
Just found this.
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/rackmacminixserver.html
Pretty slick looking. Apple should build it though.
This thread made me laugh. This has got to be BS.
If anything at least the way Apple has been heading they would drop the MacPro. It has less then 5% of their sale margin and from what they did to Final Cut Pro X it doesn't seem that they care to much about their Pro users.
Really why should they?!?! They make all their money and then some on all their iPhones, iPods, iPads, and Airs. I mean I could almost see them drop the Macbook Pros and just have a bigger Air also. Although I wouldn't agree and don't want to believe that they would do that I wouldn't put it past them.
They with them adding TB to it is almost pointless. Again I could see them do it but I am not shelling out that money for the little bit of speed increase. I will wait the extra 30 seconds for the ESATA thanks.
If anything at least the way Apple has been heading they would drop the MacPro. It has less then 5% of their sale margin and from what they did to Final Cut Pro X it doesn't seem that they care to much about their Pro users.
Really why should they?!?! They make all their money and then some on all their iPhones, iPods, iPads, and Airs. I mean I could almost see them drop the Macbook Pros and just have a bigger Air also. Although I wouldn't agree and don't want to believe that they would do that I wouldn't put it past them.
They with them adding TB to it is almost pointless. Again I could see them do it but I am not shelling out that money for the little bit of speed increase. I will wait the extra 30 seconds for the ESATA thanks.
Nanofrog, I have a tremendous amount of respect for the sheer breadth of knowledge you drop here on a regular basis, and I can't find fault with anything you're saying.
But...
I'll bet you $100 that 2010 = The End of Heavy Metal in its' current form. What gets released as the next "Mac Pro" will absolutely not be the current form factor. It has had one of the longest runs in design history, but looking into my crystal ball, it's over.
I'm with Schismz on this. A) Thank you Nanofrog. B) I think Apple is going to roll out a newly designed Mac Pro, or replace the Mac Pro with something different, that bases it's form factor on ThunderBolt.
This new form factor won't make any economic sense, strictly speaking - at least at first. However, Apple will use it to showcase what people can do with TB and desktop computers. It will debut new ideas of how a desktop computer should work. I wish I could tell you what they are, but if I could then I'd be working at Apple - in which case I still couldn't tell you
-- Apple now designs the laptops that set the benchmarks for that segment, imho. Often the other companies exceed that benchmark as well - but they still are now needing to think about what Apple is bringing out next.
Apple doesn't own the desktop segment like they do laptops. I think they would like to - because why wouldn't they? Just because they haven't really competed in the desktop segment doesn't mean that they are not interested... it just means they were interested in something else for a bit.
Thunderbolt doesn't really make a lot of sense for laptops. Most laptops are used by ordinary folk, who don't do a lot of connecting to peripherals. They type on the keyboard, they send email and pictures. They research student essays. With iCloud, they data can be backed up by Time Machine without needing an external disk. For professionals who need fast connections, why not just ExpressCard slot on the Pro laptops. Lot easier than devising a whole new protocol. I believe TB makes more sense for desktop computers, where more people tend to attach more things.
I think the TB was introduced on the laptops to get people used to the idea. I think the next Mac Pro is going to get people excited about TB. It will get all sorts of press coverage. It will vault Apple to the top of the mainstream press, again, as their reporters drool over something new and cool. So what if Apple looses money on the new Mac Pro? With the numbers that they sell, even if they lost $1000 per unit - it's not going to be a great deal of money. And the press coverage will sell more units of their profitable line.
Think about the 1st generation Mac Book Air. It was a dog of a computer. It was slow, everyone complained about the lack of ports. It was expensive. The battery was non-user-replaceable. It didn't have an optical drive. I bet the 1st generation of Air lost money for Apple. But it was the vehicle for rolling out a bunch of new ideas, of getting a whack of press coverage, and it became - in time - hugely successful once people got used to it.
I think the next Mac Pro is going to be the same, and that it's going to use TB in very interesting ways.
And finally.... Apple may have delayed introducing the new Mac Pro with TB because they knew that Steve Jobs was declining. If Tim Cook introduces something really exciting with TB, despite the fact that all of the hard-work was done pre-changeover, he will get the credit - and it will cement in people's minds that just because Steve is gone, Apple has not lost their innovative spirit.
I've gone on far too long, I'm sure, about something I know far too little about.
I'll just conclude with this. For engineering reasons, there are reasons to keep the Mac Pro going, waiting for the next chip, etc etc..... But sometimes Apple just does things for the splash effect, for marketing. I think this will be one of those.
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@snberk103
I don't think Apple have ever sold a product at a loss. In the very worst case they sell the AppleTV at cost price. They would never ever ever sell a MacPro at a $1000 loss in any case.
Thunderbolt would allow Apple to strip down the MacPro to it's essence: processing power. Mass storage, expansion cards, general connectivity, all of that can be externalised via TB, reducing footprint and cost of the tower.
@snberk103
I don't think Apple have ever sold a product at a loss. In the very worst case they sell the AppleTV at cost price. They would never ever ever sell a MacPro at a $1000 loss in any case.
Thunderbolt would allow Apple to strip down the MacPro to it's essence: processing power. Mass storage, expansion cards, general connectivity, all of that can be externalised via TB, reducing footprint and cost of the tower.
I feel more than often than not, the people who want Apple to redesign the Mac Pro to something sleeker and smaller have both never owned a Mac Pro nor will.
They want a redesign because they don't like how it looks or are just tired of how it looks. They don't account to space requirements, cooling requirements, etc. Somehow the performance is suppose to come out of thin air and everything is stored in the cloud?
I love the way the Mac Pro looks right now and I don't see a need for them to designed it.
I'll take your offer!
They want a redesign because they don't like how it looks or are just tired of how it looks. They don't account to space requirements, cooling requirements, etc. Somehow the performance is suppose to come out of thin air and everything is stored in the cloud?
I love the way the Mac Pro looks right now and I don't see a need for them to designed it.
I'll bet you $100 that 2010 = The End of Heavy Metal in its' current form. What gets released as the next "Mac Pro" will absolutely not be the current form factor. It has had one of the longest runs in design history, but looking into my crystal ball, it's over.
I'll take your offer!
TB won't require a redesign of the case though (redesign the I/O plate is all they'd need to do).
There's also the cost factor to consider. It's expensive to retool the assembly line that produces the cases for a product that only sells ~76k units per year. This is primary reason the existing case design has lasted as long as it has (they weren't forced to perform a redesign). They've only redesigned the internals where needed as a means of reducing the costs.
Now I realize it's possible to get a new case design, but the only way that would happen is if Apple can justify it financially (amortize it out over time, as they've done with the existing case externals).
Now keep in mind, the MP's sales volume is shrinking due to MSRP and changes in the workstation market. Then take into account that SP systems are taking over due to the lower costs, and will continue to do so at an increasing rate as the core counts continue to increase (major tipping point = 8 cores on a single consumer CPU).
So I don't think it's all that likely, particularly with Xeons taking a back seat in the workstation market to consumer CPU's. We're getting to the point of only those that require ECC and highly threaded application users needing a DP system will buy Xeon based machines in the near future (Haswell in 2013, assuming no delays according to Intel).
Once this happens, Apple could introduce a new product as a replacement for the MP, and it would be financially attractive for both Apple and most of their MP customers (creative professionals for example, don't need ECC, and that seems to be the largest group purchasing the MP from what I can tell).
ROI on the consumer products is much higher than the MP. And Apple's interested in the bottom line first and foremost. So they're much more likely to continue pursuing this market rather than the desktop market (iMac is more attractive than the MP in terms of ROI).
Actually, it makes perfect sense.
They're getting smaller, so fewer ports will be available (designers have to make trade-offs as to what port stays, what port goes). So a small high speed port such as TB is attractive. Even more so that an external graphics signal can be incorporated.
TB is highly attractive to users that need high-speed I/O, such as creative professionals (think location filming for example; use a TB camera and TB storage device linked to the laptop to capture the RAW camera data).
It has to do with the lack of parts from Intel ATM, not SJ's health and recent demise.
I seriously doubt Apple deals with loss leader products. Even the AppleTV has to at least be breaking even, given their penchant for margins (loss would reduce the Gross Margin).
I agree. I'd be absolutely amazed if Apple's using the AppleTV as a loss leader, and there's no way it would be the case with their computers (even the Air when it first came out, as they get a heck of a deal from Intel on the CPU's).
Actually, this would be a bad thing, as TB is only a 4x lane slot with additional performance losses due to protocol conversions and latency.
But it's absolutely brilliant for laptops and AIO's without slots (so long as the peripherals actually make it into the wild).
has anyone considered that maybe apple is introducing a low end Mac Pro, single processor, 2 drive bays, 2 PCIe (single slots), 1 optical drive bay.
and then they keep the current design for a dual processor Professional workstation
Just saying it could be possible
and then they keep the current design for a dual processor Professional workstation
Just saying it could be possible
I really don't think the new Mac Pro will be all that different from the current one, looks wise.
Maybe some minor external design changes, but for the most part I think it will be the same. Internally they might change some stuff if needed like they did with the 2009 revision.
Maybe some minor external design changes, but for the most part I think it will be the same. Internally they might change some stuff if needed like they did with the 2009 revision.
I would be beating the door down to buy this kind of Mac. While it is not a real Mac Pro it is the Mac for the rest of us.
If only we could be a fly on the wall in the pro line marketing/development meetings at Apple. It would probably be quite eye opening if we knew what was really going on in there. Something tells me that this was not even considered in Steve Jobs 5 year plan for Apple, but who knows.....
No, that is not what I saw... Owning a Mac Pro myself I definitely stay aware of the accessories that are available.
Also, FYI, Apple never lets case designs leave the building. Unless you're Steve, then you get a model Mac Pro on your desk at home.
Even the iPads that go out to developers pre-release do not have exposed new case designs. Apple pre-release procedures are also pretty strict. New gear has to go in a room with no windows that is constantly locked.
If none of the above is true, your friend doesn't have pre-release gear.
I call BS, just another attention wh*re
Seriously the computer on the picture look fugly, it would be in direct competition with the iMac if it was a smaller cheaper version of a Mac Pro.
Also Apple is never displaying future products, they are the most careful company about industrial secrets, they even fire people that talk about whats about to be released.
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