2015 nMP (7,1) Proposed Feature Wish List

[Nugget]

Annnnd scene. You heard it here first, Apple did something without money in mind! You may be right about the future leaning towards some features in the nMP...

Great snark, but I do notice that ZnU directly addressed your followup objections in the parts of his post you edited out when you quoted him. I think he is spot on with both the context and direction that led Apple in the direction they've gone with the nMP. None of us know how the market will play out over the next few years, but I think that big boxes full of slots is the less likely outcome.

For me, I don't miss the slots as all -- I've bought a half dozen old Mac Pros personally and for staff and have yet to use a single slot in any of them. I only sort of miss the second CPU socket, and I think 64GB of RAM is a shockingly small upper boundary.

 

[slughead]

'More!' is a choice you can make when designing virtually any device. [...] This machine is designed to ride that edge with respect to most of the Mac Pro's customer base, and assuming the above trends play out as expected I think it will do so successfully.

I would argue the line between upgradability and "disposable appliance" was crossed, but I suppose when you really get down to it, it's arbitrary. As far as how it does, we'll see. I'll back up what I said/implied before: Apple is doing what they're doing for money, and the measure of this products success in terms of ROI is complicated.

Great snark, but I do notice that ZnU directly addressed your followup objections in the parts of his post you edited out when you quoted him.

And I adressed his. If you read into his post, he even points out that perhaps these technologies/strategies are premature. I'm almost positive that's what he meant by "Apple's not trying to make money."

I believe they are trying to make money. Releasing a mere "proof of concept" for what they view as "the future of computing" would probably have their stockholders sh**ing a chicken (quoth the talledega nights).

They expect to make some ROI from this machine (as in THIS one, not 7,1), through one method or another. It's either a good bet or a bad one. They're smart enough not to make a lot of mistakes, but they've made terrible ones in the past.

This box is sleek and neat looking. It'll attract a significant group of non-power users who just need something better than an iMac but want to stick with OS X. It'll discourage a few people too (though many of those people may have fled the platform already due to ridiculous neglect of the product line), so we'll see where the chips fall.

 

[handsome pete]

Simply pointing out that a particular device does not have as much of x as it could have is not really a useful criticism..

As far as the CPU is concerned I think it is. No one is simply saying it could have had more without qualifying it. The "more" here is pretty much always referring to just a 2nd CPU. Something the previous iteration offered and something all of the competitors still offer. And considering there are quantifiable benefits (cost, more max cores, more ram slots, etc.) the argument certainly seems valuable to me.

I like the new Mac Pro, but here you're just simplifying the other side's argument in order to try to invalidate it.

 

[AidenShaw]

And an almost uncanny eerie silence when you are expecting to hear hover mode!

Are you saying that the new Mini Pro is quiet?

again...

and again...

and again...



If my office were in an anechoic chamber I might be more interested, but I can't hear the two Dell midi-tower Xeons in my office - the gentle whoosh of the HVAC is louder. My office would be no quieter if I replaced the two with a new Mini Pro.

But, I'd need a few T-Bolt cabinets for the storage, so maybe it wouldn't be so quiet after all.

 

[Gav Mack]

Are you saying that the new Mini Pro is quiet?

again...

and again...

and again...



If my office were in an anechoic chamber I might be more interested, but I can't hear the two Dell midi-tower Xeons in my office - the gentle whoosh of the HVAC is louder. My office would be no quieter if I replaced the two with a new Mini Pro.

But, I'd need a few T-Bolt cabinets for the storage, so maybe it wouldn't be so quiet after all.

Lol pardon I can't hear you it's too quiet!

The TB issue I agree is a pita, all the improvements nullified by having a noisy box to house all the kit that you need to plug into it. However when the enclosures no doubt soon nick this cans concept, house the drives in a box with big slow fan on top sucking up air through a fan less PSU we might have quiet boxes plugged into it too!

 

[flat five]

And an almost uncanny eerie silence when you are expecting to hear hover mode!

i haven't used a nmp yet but all this talk about it being so quiet reminds me of the first time i drove a prius.. like i sort of prefer to hear the engine revving up when i push the gas as it gives the subconsciousness an idea that things are working properly..

i'm sure i'll get used to it though (as i did with the prius after a couple of days.)

 

[koban4max]

i want :

nMP v.2 base model 48 gig ram/ 2tb SSD/ 3.4 ghz 6 core
6 usb 4.0/ 3 hdmi 3.0/ 6 TB 3/ Graphic...D900
Customizable...able to change processor, rams, drives.

Smaller than current MP for base model asking price= 2499 USD

 

[theSeb]

i want :

Nmp v.2 base model 48 gig ram/ 2tb ssd/ 3.4 ghz 6 core
6 usb 4.0/ 3 hdmi 3.0/ 6 tb 3/ graphic...d900
customizable...able to change processor, rams, drives.

Smaller than current mp for base model asking price= 2499 usd

good one

 

[slughead]

i want :

nMP v.2 base model 48 gig ram/ 2tb SSD/ 3.4 ghz 6 core
6 usb 4.0/ 3 hdmi 3.0/ 6 TB 3/ Graphic...D900
Customizable...able to change processor, rams, drives.

Smaller than current MP for base model asking price= 2499 USD

What's a D900?

 

[Gav Mack]

i haven't used a nmp yet but all this talk about it being so quiet reminds me of the first time i drove a prius.. like i sort of prefer to hear the engine revving up when i push the gas as it gives the subconsciousness an idea that things are working properly..

i'm sure i'll get used to it though (as i did with the prius after a couple of days.)

Having driven a Prius and had my right foot planted to the floor swearing at the lack of performance it's a good half analogy of cos you can't really hear it though the way I drove it the engine was running almost all the time. Perhaps something like the Mission RS or Siaetta R electic sports bikes might be a better fit!

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What's a D900?

Built in Nikon SLR on the can?

 

[haravikk]

Apple's not doing this for the money. This market is barely on their radar in terms of revenue.

I don't believe that's true; okay so custom fabrication of some parts isn't going to come cheap, nor is the R&D, but the markup on Mac Pros has always been pretty high, even though they offer decent value for money, as Apple can get the parts (relatively) cheaply.

Also, the factories in the US are bound to be used for other machines in future, maybe we'll see redesigned Mac Minis coming out of them soon? They also seem to be largely for assembly, with maybe the cases being made there. The rest of the components still sounds like they're manufactured elsewhere. While it's a step in the right direction, it's not what I'd call "Made in the USA" personally.


Don't get me wrong, I do believe that Apple has made some great choices in the new Mac Pro, even if I wouldn't have made them myself, and there's bound to be at least two more versions of the new Mac Pro as-is, simply with upgraded components. So while development costs are going to cut down on initial profits, there is absolutely no way that Apple is making this new machine at a loss. At worst the first generation will only pull in a small profit, while the future ones will do a lot better, so in the long term they're definitely making money on them. Even after they've released several generations, its hard to see the new Mac Pro getting a lot smaller than it is now, seeing as how nearly every bulky part has been removed, so it may even endure as a design for as long as the G5 design has, with some tweaks along the way.

Granted we're not talking iPhone, or maybe even iMac, levels of profit necessarily, even with a high markup, but so long as it isn't losing money I think it's in Apple's best interests to ensure they still have a high-end option in their lineup.


Also, Apple stands to potentially make more money from a new Mac Pro customer than an old one, as it upgrades in the same way as a Mac Mini; Time Machine backup, remove computer, swap in new one, connect drives, Time Machine restore. Okay so there are possible upgrades for both the Mac Mini and new Mac Pro, but they're not really normal user upgrades (other than RAM), plus if you have the money to spend on a new Mac Pro for professional use, then swapping to the latest and greatest unit every year or so probably isn't a big deal, and you can recoup some of the cost from selling the previous unit.

 

[koban4max]

What's a D900?

a new never heard of fire pro.

 

[iBug2]

Built in Nikon SLR on the can?

Ok, as an owner of Nikon D800, what is Nikon D900?

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But, I'd need a few T-Bolt cabinets for the storage, so maybe it wouldn't be so quiet after all.

Or you can just buy a Caldigit T3 with a 17 dB fan. My room is quite silent. LMP (Loud Mac Pro) was ruining it, so I got rid of it and have been waiting for the nMP. Adding the T3, the noise level will be tons better compared to before.

 

[flat five]

Having driven a Prius and had my right foot planted to the floor swearing at the lack of performance it's a good half analogy of cos you can't really hear it though the way I drove it the engine was running almost all the time. Perhaps something like the Mission RS or Siaetta R electic sports bikes might be a better fit!

oh.. i didn't mean to make a connection between sound and performance.. the 3.33hex 5,1 was looking like a great replacement to me if my 1,1 broke during the nmp wait.. this new one is looking even better and i'm positive i'll have no performance complaints..
it's just the lack of sound that's going to require a slight adjustment (as in- i'll probably have my renderer showing the samples_per_second as a visual confirmation instead of using my 5770's fan as audio confirmation).. i'm sure i'll prefer the (near) soundless operation though once the adjustment is made..

in my scenario, it will probably appear truly 'soundless' because nyc idles at higher decibels than it appears the nmp will be under load.

 

[deconstruct60]

As for the thermal core, they could swap that out and have individual fans and heat sinks for the processors and GPU. Maybe they could add a few more drive bays and room for the extra dimm slots you mentioned. Wait, I've got it!:

Another whole product for a substantially smaller market with even smaller system component overlap than single/dual system with same infrastructure ? Don't hold your breath.

Regardless, this isn't even close to an incremental change to the now current Mac Pro.

Anyways, you make it sound like adding a second CPU to the tube design is so tough. Flat five did it in photoshop; see? Easy!: /s

Being able to use photoshop doesn't make one a competent designer and more than insert links to legacy systems does. Users use real systems; not photo mock ups.

 

[flat five]

Being able to use photoshop doesn't make one a competent designer and more than insert links to legacy systems does. Users use real systems; not photo mock ups.

i think you missed the sarcasm tag in slug's post.

 

[geta]

The base model should look like that :

- 6 core CPU (its about time to get rid of the 4 core option, spacial when imac's beating them)
- dual PCIe SSDs (or at list BTO option)
- single GPU (with BTO dual GPU)
- minimum 16GB DDR3
- keyboard plus mouse\trackpad included

and of course lower price (€2299 - €2499)

 

[iBug2]

The base model should look like that :

- 6 core CPU (its about time to get rid of the 4 core option, spacial when imac's beating them)

The iMac is beating the 6 Core, the 8 Core and the 12 Core in single core tasks as well. That's always been that way, and will keep being that way.

 

[deconstruct60]

i think you missed the sarcasm tag in slug's post.

Not completely. He is snarking at photoshop== designer, but frankly designing with rear view mirror mode isn't particularly any better. There are multiple flavors of form over function.

 

[deconstruct60]

The base model should look like that :

- 6 core CPU (its about time to get rid of the 4 core option, spacial when imac's beating them)

If primarily concerned about single thread preformance should be requesting that entry level stay at 4 cores. More than 4 cores means a slower base clock than a 4 core would be.

If concerned about mulitple thread performance the new Mac Pros are as faster on those as they are slower on the single threaded tasks. A bit but not huge.

- dual PCIe SSDs (or at list BTO option)

The question is where they are going to get bandwidth to support that.

- single GPU (with BTO dual GPU)

Like the support for > 4 cores there is chicken-and-the-egg issue if there isn't a significantly large deployed base of 2 GPU boxes then software won't be written for it. Like Thunderbolt Apple is a bit in the prime-the-pump mode.

What might get more traction and marginally lower GPU prices is a BTO (or entry only) config option that dropped FirePro and just had basic mid-level graphics.

- minimum 16GB DDR3

If Intel stays on track DDR3 is dead ending on this E5 v2. E5 v3 will be DDR4. May run into same "hit sub $3000" price point issue and dump a DIMM to limbo just under again.

- keyboard plus mouse\trackpad included

Probably not going to happen. About as many folks saying they don't want one (already have them) as do.

and of course lower price (€2299 - €2499)

Increase base config core count, increase base config RAM size , and decrease price ? Not going to happen. One of those two directions perhaps but not both directions at the same time.

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The iMac is beating the 6 Core, the 8 Core and the 12 Core in single core tasks as well. That's always been that way, and will keep being that way.

Intel significantly closed the gap with the E5 1620 v1 and v2. They finally stopped kneecapping the entry 4 core model on clock rate. The faster base close is now at the entry line up. That makes for a much more sane transition out of the desktop/laptop 4 cores ( and Xeon E3 ) into the entry Xeon E5 1600 series.

If for E5 v3 they kept the entry at 4 cores the whole 130TDP thermal budget could be thrown at 4 even higher base clocked cores. I think they are going to move forward ( i.e., 6 cores an little to no base clock decrease) for the next iteration.

But it is far more an issue of what Intel puts on the table than an Apple choice. The 1620's price point is drives its selection in the entry model. If Intel puts a 4 or 6 core there it will likely still get selected.

 

[cinealta]

But it is far more an issue of what Intel puts on the table than an Apple choice.

How many years more before we may see a potential Mac Pro transition to Apple's ARM-based A-series SOC? I remember in the early 2000s Apple got tired of Motorola's PowerPC roadmap and secretly co-developed OSX to run on Intel. Could OSX be ported to A-series SOC after Haswell or Broadwell? That may be getting down to 14nm process or so.

 

[iBug2]

How many years more before we may see a potential Mac Pro transition to Apple's ARM-based A-series SOC? I remember in the early 2000s Apple got tired of Motorola's PowerPC roadmap and secretly co-developed OSX to run on Intel. Could OSX be ported to A-series SOC after Haswell or Broadwell? That may be getting down to 14nm process or so.

Not before MBA's transition, if ever.

 

[Gav Mack]

How many years more before we may see a potential Mac Pro transition to Apple's ARM-based A-series SOC? I remember in the early 2000s Apple got tired of Motorola's PowerPC roadmap and secretly co-developed OSX to run on Intel. Could OSX be ported to A-series SOC after Haswell or Broadwell? That may be getting down to 14nm process or so.

ARM simply doesn't have the horsepower to compete with an Intel mobile or desktop CPU. Great for low power devices but not in the same ballpark I'm afraid.

 

[deconstruct60]

How many years more before we may see a potential Mac Pro transition to Apple's ARM-based A-series SOC?

There is about zero reason to transition Macs onto ARM SoC. iOS devices will likely rise and eat into the bottom of the Mac line up, but Apple is hardly likely going to 'war' against iOS with a OS X product.

In terms of Mac Pro level of performance .... ARM is a joke. iMac , MBP still a joke.

If talking about folks with stagnant workload that ARM can match ( do basic app productivity stuff) then they are far more likely to transition to iOS than OS X is to ARM.

I remember in the early 2000s Apple got tired of Motorola's PowerPC roadmap and secretly co-developed OSX to run on Intel. Could OSX be ported to A-series SOC after Haswell or Broadwell?

OS X was ported to Intel because Apple HAD NO OS on Intel. What is the point of highly redundantly competing with yourself??? There already IS an OS on ARM. That OS is far more WIDELY deployed than OS X. What is the point of rolling up with a 2nd, 3rd, 4th place OS on the same platform?

That may be getting down to 14nm process or so.

At the 14nm and lower processes what going to see is the non Intel GPU vendors being tossed out far more deeply into the Mac line up more so than a port of OS X to ARM.

"Fat" binaries don't make much sense when trying to go to a worldwide download software market. It just makes apps bigger and the download process longer.

If Intel screws up then yes. Prehaps a switch. As a sanity check to keep the core cross-platform mechanisms "honest". Sure. But just the core ( not much effort is going into the increasing larger set of apps bundled with the OS. )

The major reason the A7 is ahead of the game on 64 and graphics in terms of time to market is precisicely because the ARM design team is NOT trying to build all ARMs for all people. They are quite focused on making exactly what the iPhone/iPad need and that is about it. that is typically "good enough" for the AppleTV and other iOS derivatives also.

Highly doubtful they are going to spin out yet another design team for a totally different track where try to go head-to-head with Intel in more classic PC performance space.





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Not before MBA's transition, if ever.

Apple can peel off a low end MBA with an iPad with a keyboard. A "chromebook" but more so a 'iOSBook'.

Make it one of those snap-on/snap-off keyboards like Surface and all need is the iPad Pro rumor to add a keyboard accessory and just about done.

 

[koban4max]

maybe the nMP 2015 model will have intel processor, "anothersameshit."