2016 nMP

[monokakata]

I'd suggest learning about NA and turbo to begin with classic mistake is that turbo = better performance....tsk tsk. FOR many turbo is like Mac v PC , now do you understand the picture YOU are missing with his anology.

Meh....Stick to computers lads!!!

But . . . but . . . but . . . I'm old enough to remember when PCs had a Turbo button on the front panel. Yes. It's true.

So it must be the same thing, right? Same word, right? Push the button, wait for something to spin up, leave those non-turbo Packard-Bell boxes in the rear view mirror.

I'd like to think I don't have to say that I'm joking, but maybe I should. I do remember thinking that "Turbo Mode" on a PC was about the silliest description ever.

 

[mattspace]

TB3 is the "breakthrough" feature of the new machine. TB3 requires Skylake Xeons and their associated chipset. So far, the only Skylake Xeons in the market are the mobile versions in the Lenovo P Series laptops, which are not what Apple uses.

When the full-fat Skylake Xeons and associated chipset are released by Intel, then we get nnMP, so I hear.

 

[tomvos]

I do remember thinking that "Turbo Mode" on a PC was about the silliest description ever.

Yeah, nevertheless there was a reason for this button. The IBM PC-XT was running at 4.77 MHz. Some software was written in a way to work properly at exactly this frequency. Mainly this was done due to performance reasons, today you would use a timer.

The Turbo button allowed you to switch to a faster CPU to a lower frequency which was at least a little bit closer to the original IBM PC-XT speed. But as time passed, this issue got less relevant and the Turbo button turned into a marketing gimmicky (along with the dubious Landmark equivalent MHz marketing fad).

Sorry for this offtopic disgresser.

 

[EnesM]

TB3 is the "breakthrough" feature of the new machine. TB3 requires Skylake Xeons and their associated chipset. So far, the only Skylake Xeons in the market are the mobile versions in the Lenovo P Series laptops, which are not what Apple uses.

When the full-fat Skylake Xeons and associated chipset are released by Intel, then we get nnMP, so I hear.

They might as well wait for Kaby Lake then...

 

[lowendlinux]

I dunno if TB3 is a requirement for the release of the nMP..

I wonder if we're in for a redesign or a rethinking of the design?

 

[rdav]

Oculus Rift Won't Support Mac Until Apple Releases a 'Good Computer'.
https://www.macrumors.com/2016/03/03/oculus-rift-for-mac-requires-better-gpus/

Quote /s:
"It just boils down to the fact that Apple doesn't prioritize high-end GPUs. You can a buy $6,000 Mac Pro with the top of the line AMD FirePro D700s and it still doesn't match our recommended spec. If they prfioritize higher-end GPUs like they used to for awhile back in the day, I think we'd love to support Mac."

The Oculus Rift requires a computer with a powerful GPU. Oculus VR's recommended specs for the Rift include an NVIDIA GTX 970, AMD 290, or equivalent, because the Oculus Rift needs to render approximately 400 million shaded pixels per second. Mac machines, even the high-end ones, don't have the graphics power to handle that kind of system load.

With interest in virtual reality devices like the Oculus Rift picking up, Apple will need to focus more heavily on the graphics capabilities with Macs if it hopes to keep up with PC makers and avoid disappointing customers who want to use the latest technology and gaming peripherals. Rumors suggest Apple is even developing its own virtual reality headset, so there's a good chance the company is already well aware of the need for improved GPUs and working towards improvements.

Good! The more integrated /business reasons for Apple to support and improve the Mac Pro, the better.

 

[ManuelGomes]

Please, stop with the Skylake requirement for TB3 already.
It's been more than discussed that Skylake is not an absolute need for TB3. The TB3 controller requires only 4 PCIe 3 lanes for best performance, you can hook it up to any CPU available today that meets this requirement.
Of course Skylake will make it easier since all CPU and PCH lanes are PCIe3 but it' not mandatory.
Skylake-EP Xeons will only be here for another year or so, a long wait still.
And Kaby Lake Xeon will even take longer to come, Apple won't use desktop parts on nMP.

I'm convinced that we won't see it this soon, not until all parts are ready.
Broadwell-EP should be here within the month.
TB3 is already available, don't think they'll skip that one.
Polaris is set for the summer if all goes well.
I could see it announced in September and coming out late in the year.
Or they could wait a few more months and have Skylake-EP on it, much better in terms of solution, but yet again another delay.
Still, and as mentioned before, the Skylake platform is somewhat of a wrong fit for the nMP. Purley is aimed more towards the higher end machines (2S and up, don't see nMP there), while Basin Falls will not cover the entire range (only 1S which is where the nMP falls) since the core count is limited.
So, will the nMP die with Skylake? Will it get to see Broadwell at least?
[doublepost=1457089325][/doublepost]koyoot, not all looks shiny for Broadwell on those benchmarks :-(

 

[AidenShaw]

But . . . but . . . but . . . I'm old enough to remember when PCs had a Turbo button on the front panel. Yes. It's true.

So it must be the same thing, right? Same word, right? Push the button, wait for something to spin up, leave those non-turbo Packard-Bell boxes in the rear view mirror.

I'd like to think I don't have to say that I'm joking, but maybe I should. I do remember thinking that "Turbo Mode" on a PC was about the silliest description ever.

What? Your PC didn't have a centrifugal impeller driven by the hot exhaust gases from the CPU?

Mine did, and that friggin' "turbo button" was a real lifesaver.

Literally. In that the "turbo button" was as useful as a candy with a hole in the center. (And even though I took a number of them apart, I never found that impeller.)

 

[rdav]

What? Your PC didn't have a centrifugal impeller driven by the hot exhaust gases from the CPU? Mine did, and that friggin' "turbo button" was a real lifesaver. Literally. In that the "turbo button" was as useful as a candy with a hole in the center.

Turbo /Nox! See = 01:56

 

[Zarniwoop]

Maybe Apple has purposely kept its GPU's underpowered when it comes to VR? Why let competition have any edge before Apples own gear is out?

We're in transition period for sure; no new laptops (Pro or not) for a long time. No Mac mini. No updates on Pro software.. Only iMac has been updated recently.

Either Apple is going to sack their Pro line.. or there's going to be a big change in the whole setup, that's been under works for a while.

Yet another dream
Macbook Air > Macbook S (14")
Macbook Pro 13" > 14" (2800x1800, Iris Pro 580) about same form factor, smaller bezel for display)
Macbook Pro 15" > 16" (4k, Xeon, Polaris)
A lot smaller Mac mini
Mac in a form factor of Time Capsule, gamer machine, VR ready
nMP v2 and new 16:10 4k and 5k displays (not in 16:9 like iMac has)

 

[dpny]

Maybe Apple has purposely kept its GPU's underpowered when it comes to VR? Why let competition have any edge before Apples own gear is out?

I doubt that. More likely it's the obvious answer: VR wasn't on anyone's radar when Apple designed the nMP, and the lack of nMP updates is some combination of Apple being Apple and some of the supposition about available bits and pieces posted in this thread.

Should Apple release an updated nMP this year, I don't know if VR will factor into it. I'd imagine a new nMP will be able to handle VR, simply because of updated components, but it remains to be seen whether VR will be the Next Big Thing, a niche product used in some professions, or a flop. Given the prices Oculus and the others are charging for the first gen models, I don't see it gaining widespread adoption any time soon. I was thinking about getting an Oculus when it came out, but I'm not paying US$ 800, after tax and shipping, to be a what amounts to a beta tester. I could build a entire decent 1080 gaming machine for $800.

 

[kwikdeth]

Please, stop with the Skylake requirement for TB3 already.
It's been more than discussed that Skylake is not an absolute need for TB3. The TB3 controller requires only 4 PCIe 3 lanes for best performance, you can hook it up to any CPU available today that meets this requirement.
Of course Skylake will make it easier since all CPU and PCH lanes are PCIe3 but it' not mandatory.

they'll use any arbitrary cut-off they can to trick people into buying new. of course it isnt required, but Apple will say it is. and people will buy it.

 

[mattspace]

Please, stop with the Skylake requirement for TB3 already.
It's been more than discussed that Skylake is not an absolute need for TB3. The TB3 controller requires only 4 PCIe 3 lanes for best performance, you can hook it up to any CPU available today that meets this requirement.

Are there any non-skylake systems with TB3 in them?

 

[Stacc]

Are there any non-skylake systems with TB3 in them?

Here is a thunderbolt 3 add in card that connects to any PCIe 3.0 4x slot to give you 2 thunderbolt 3 ports.

 

[dpny]

Here is a thunderbolt 3 add in card that connects to any PCIe 3.0 4x slot to give you 2 thunderbolt 3 ports.

That's based on Alpine Ridge, which requires Z170, which means Skylake. Seems to support mattspace's claim.

 

[Stacc]

That's based on Alpine Ridge, which requires Z170, which means Skylake. Seems to support mattspace's claim.

Alpine ridge does not require skylake. Its release merely coincides with it and the implementation of alpine ridge is aided by the extra PCIe lanes provided by the Z170 chipset. You can implement Alpine Ridge and Thunderbolt 3 on any system that has 4x PCIe 3.0 lanes to spare.

Here is a tech brief. Notice how it mentions the combination of PCIe lanes, displayport and usb 3 controllers and not anything about skylake or the z170 chipset. While the tech brief doesn't mention Alpine ridge specifically, its the only thunderbolt chipset that exists right now so everything it says applies to the implementation of thunderbolt 3.

Thunderbolt 3 is currently a premium feature so it makes sense that it has only shown up with premium processors, that being skylake. I am sure we will start to see motherboards released with the X99 chipset to support thunderbolt 3 once Broadwell-E gets close to release.

 

[dpny]

Thunderbolt 3 is currently a premium feature so it makes sense that it has only shown up with premium processors, that being skylake. I am sure we will start to see motherboards released with the X99 chipset to support thunderbolt 3 once Broadwell-E gets close to release.

You have a better opinion of Intel than I do. I wouldn't be surprised to see them limit it to Z170.

 

[goMac]

That's based on Alpine Ridge, which requires Z170, which means Skylake. Seems to support mattspace's claim.

Alienware had laptops that were Broadwell with Thunderbolt 3:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2976...nd-better-screens-but-oddly-lack-skylake.html

 

[dpny]

Alienware had laptops that were Broadwell with Thunderbolt 3:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2976...nd-better-screens-but-oddly-lack-skylake.html

What about that first paragraph?

Update: It may have just been a pump fake after all. Alienware said it will offer free upgrades to Skylake for anyone who buys one of the newly announced Alienware gaming laptops.

 

[Mago]

AMD on reddit's AMA, announced Polaris for mid year, but seems the version targeted at notebook, so no nMP at mid16, while they annouces first FX Zen at years end in coincidence with Polaris 11... - do aple have an full AMD nMP on the works ?

 

[goMac]

What about that first paragraph?

Update: It may have just been a pump fake after all. Alienware said it will offer free upgrades to Skylake for anyone who buys one of the newly announced Alienware gaming laptops.

They said free upgrades. Dunno how that changes anything. They still had Broadwell laptops with Thunderbolt 3.

 

[dpny]

They said free upgrades. Dunno how that changes anything. They still had Broadwell laptops with Thunderbolt 3.

The way I read it was anyone was the laptops will ship with Skylake, and anyone who ordered will be upgraded for free.
[doublepost=1457145770][/doublepost]

AMD on reddit's AMA, announced Polaris for mid year, but seems the version targeted at notebook, so no nMP at mid16, while they annouces first FX Zen at years end in coincidence with Polaris 11... - do aple have an full AMD nMP on the works ?

I very much doubt Apple would ditch Intel for AMD, given that Zen is an unknown quantity and could end up being another disappointing AMD CPU.

 

[goMac]

The way I read it was anyone was the laptops will ship with Skylake, and anyone who ordered will be upgraded for free.

They said if Skylake shipped early they'd upgrade everyone to Skylake for free. Otherwise they'd ship it with Broadwell.

Either way, it meant they had a Broadwell laptop with Thunderbolt 3.

 

[dpny]

They said if Skylake shipped early they'd upgrade everyone to Skylake for free. Otherwise they'd ship it with Broadwell.

Either way, it meant they had a Broadwell laptop with Thunderbolt 3.

Ah.

 

[AidenShaw]

TI very much doubt Apple would ditch Intel for AMD, given that Zen is an unknown quantity and could end up being yet another disappointing AMD CPU.

Added emphasis. I think that you have to go back in time about a decade to see an AMD CPU that wasn't disappointing.

And don't bring up the fake FirePro cards that Apple puts in the MP6,1 - they aspire to be disappointing.