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Stacc

macrumors 6502a
Jun 22, 2005
888
353
It would be nice improvement over D700. But would really Fiji in Mac Pro satisfy customers?

Its lack of VRAM and DP compute are significant limitations but Apple could offer it as an option especially if Polaris can't match it in performance.
 

fuchsdh

macrumors 68020
Jun 19, 2014
2,028
1,831
If macOS name is coming, Mac line might get new old names too. Why not return the Power Mac.. The Pro -term is just plain stupid. Pro as productivity, maybe. But I find Macbook to be very productive writing tool. And professional too. So, yes, Pro = stupid name. But what makes it different from Macbook Pro, is the computational power. (ok, and a great set of connector ports).

And maybe Power Mac name could oblige Apple to make it (and keep it, with regular updates) powerful.

My dream team

Macbook
- 12" and 14" ultralight laptops
Power Macbook
- 14" and 16", heavier power machines, dGPU for both models
Power Mac
- an excuse to get rid of the Tube?
- or, curent tube could be Power Mac SE.. but it should be a cheaper model

What about the rest of the line? iMac and Mac Mini?

The prefixes don't make much sense now anyhow. Bringing back "power" doesn't change that.

When Apple had just four products with very clear consumer versus professional roles (and price), it worked.

Now the iMac spans entry-level desktops to the most powerful Macs in many use cases, the original thin-and-light ultraportable is the entry-level portable (and is more powerful than most actually need), and there's the Mac mini doing its thing in the corner. The product matrix broke down a while ago, even before Apple reduced a lot of the differentiation with the 6,1 tube.
 
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fusionid

macrumors member
Jul 11, 2015
85
22
ipad pro?

Apple has doubled down on the Pro name. Yes it is stupid.

Anyhow, I once again maxed out my imac last night using soft synths. Need CPU power. I know some people don't but I do.
 

wallysb01

macrumors 68000
Jun 30, 2011
1,589
809
If macOS name is coming, Mac line might get new old names too. Why not return the Power Mac.. The Pro -term is just plain stupid. Pro as productivity, maybe. But I find Macbook to be very productive writing tool. And professional too. So, yes, Pro = stupid name. But what makes it different from Macbook Pro, is the computational power. (ok, and a great set of connector ports).

And maybe Power Mac name could oblige Apple to make it (and keep it, with regular updates) powerful.

My dream team

Macbook
- 12" and 14" ultralight laptops
Power Macbook
- 14" and 16", heavier power machines, dGPU for both models
Power Mac
- an excuse to get rid of the Tube?
- or, curent tube could be Power Mac SE.. but it should be a cheaper model

What about the rest of the line? iMac and Mac Mini?

I think a consolidation of the laptop line is due. The Air is in an awkward state compared to the Macbook on the bottom/mid end and the rMBP on the top end. It would seem to make sense to expand the Macbook into the Air's territory then leave the rMBP roughly how it is, maybe get rid of the dGPUs though, since integrated graphics are going to be able to drive retina displays now (even offer mobile E3s with truly impressive integrated graphics as a top end Pro version of some sort).

On the desktop line, I think it would make a whole lot more sense to offer the E3-1275 v5 as an iMac Pro, then dump the stupid Tube and give us a duel socket workstation again. Then for the Mac Pro, so not to confuse names with the iMac Pro, maybe bring back the Power Mac name, as you mention here. And gosh, what to think of the Mac Mini, the second most neglected line compared to the Mac Pro....? If following previous models, Apple would just push the guts of the rMBP into the mini-ish desktop form, but I'll never understand why they do that or why anyone buys the thing. It would sure be nice to just see a desktop i3 with the intel 530 integrate graphics only all the way up to E3-1275 that would be in the iMac Pro.

But I know, I'm dreaming. Luckily windows is getting Linux command line support, so my choices might start increasing....
 

rrl

macrumors 6502a
Jul 27, 2009
512
57
nextcube-alone.jpg
70343A0F4C1446EB8B7D013D7DF616B1.ashx
 

tralfaz

macrumors member
Jun 20, 2013
77
76

I still have one of these in my closet, and it still works. Though the rubber cylinder wheels one the "MegaPixel" (4 color gray scale) display have merged with the glue that welded them onto the hubs, and turned into a semi-viscous tar like substance. Messy and sticky.

I still love that machine. I also own a working G4 Mac Cube. And now Apple expects me to accept a cylinder computer? If Apple updates the MacMini to be the same size as a Rubik's cube I will buy it, for no other reason other than the chance to take the cube family portrait.
 

koyoot

macrumors 603
Jun 5, 2012
5,939
1,853
Do you think that Apple would do again a sneak peak at next Mac Pro, with updated specs and release it in Q4 when new GPUs with HBM2 would be available?
 

fuchsdh

macrumors 68020
Jun 19, 2014
2,028
1,831
Do you think that Apple would do again a sneak peak at next Mac Pro, with updated specs and release it in Q4 when new GPUs with HBM2 would be available?

At this point if they offer a new revision it's going to be a substantial update and be competitive with what's out there. That's good.

At some point this "let's hold back for the *real* good stuff" is like Apple has been infected with the mentality of a forumgoer. Nothing's stopping them from releasing a spec-bump in a year with even better GPUs, except themselves.
 

AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,677
The Peninsula

goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
7,663
1,694
AMD released a video BIOS update with improved UEFI support for Fury based cards. Since all macs run on EFI hopefully this is a hint that AMD and Apple are working to get this into a mac. There are already partial drivers in El Capitan for it.

I'm not sure it really is. Any PC made in the past few years is going to be UEFI, and Windows 10 certification I believe requires UEFI now.

Fury would be an improvement, but if Apple takes Fury over Polaris there will be pitchforks and torches brought out.
 

Mago

macrumors 68030
Aug 16, 2011
2,789
912
Beyond the Thunderdome
June, Tuesday 13th, get ready to meet the updated trash can Mac Pro at WWDC.

All we know:

Xeon E5v4, DDR4, NVMe SSD and Thunderbolt 3 are sure cards.

We don't know:

Which GPU?

Either something based on AMD Polaris 10 or nVidia Pascal or hopefully both offerings.

Also we could see the first Xeon based 15.6 Macbook Pro likely having ECC Ram and AMD Polaris 11 or nVidia quadro M2000M

And new thinner dGPU-less MacBook Toy aka retina MacBook 14 and 16
[doublepost=1461017418][/doublepost]Here is my crazy prediction about WWDC:

CUDA 8 will be on Stage, I've hear Adobe is about to release Premiere VR optimized for CUDA 8 on Mac platform in the coming weeks, and Quadro M5000M is named (note its 100W TDP fits the nMP).

My bet is at least we will have an nMP option for dual Quadro M5000M.
 
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AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,677
The Peninsula
Xeon E5v4, DDR4, NVMe SSD and Thunderbolt 3 are sure cards.
Yes, Apple will be sure to adopt that legacy technology. [/jk] Yes, those are sure things. They've all been shipping in other systems for some time. Only the E5v4 is recent.

Which GPU?

Either something based on AMD Polaris 10 or nVidia Pascal or hopefully both offerings.
Yes, the early June rumours for the GP104 line up nicely.... (And I believe them - try to find a Titan X, or GTX 980 anywhere.... I bought a dozen of them in March, and it was hard to find them in stock anywhere - even at Nvidia's store.)

CUDA 8 will be on Stage, I've hear Adobe is about to release Premiere VR optimized for CUDA 8 on Mac platform in the coming weeks,...
This would help Apple save face for embracing Nvidia again.

... and Quadro M5000M is named (note its 100W TDP fits the nMP). My bet is at least we will have an nMP option for dual Quadro M5000M.
I'd hope for:
  • Upgrade the power supply to 550 watts in the tube. (Apple claims that the current 450 watt one has 90% efficiency - which means that the PS itself can draw 500 watts, and generate 50 watts of waste heat from the PS. Upgrading to a 95% efficient 550 watt PS would generate 30 watts of waste heat from the PS - less than the MP6,1)
  • Tweak the fan and thermal core for a little better cooling (surely in the three years since the MP6,1 was announced those "innovators" at Apple have had some ideas to improve the thermal core). The extra 100 watts does need to leave the tube someplace.
  • Use GTX GPUs, and stop pretending that Radeons are FirePros (and don't start pretending that GeForce are Quadros).
  • Offer a single GPU option.
  • Forget Maxwell - do you really want three more years of people whining about "last generation" GPUs?? ;)
[doublepost=1461026029][/doublepost]
Hmmm... It did not go at all well for the last GPU company that pre-announced a design win in an Apple.
 
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antonis

macrumors 68020
Jun 10, 2011
2,085
1,009
Are we even going to know which GPU they are going to use in Mac Pro after WWDC ? Given the apple-ish naming, the only way to tell the identity of the GPUs before, was after the first real hands-on with the machine.
 

koyoot

macrumors 603
Jun 5, 2012
5,939
1,853
Guys, did you read that news, at all? Confirmation of design win is only speculation of the author. There is absolutely no evidence in that article that AMD would win the Apple hardware lottery. This is exactly WCCFTech at its worst.
 
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Zarniwoop

macrumors 65816
Aug 12, 2009
1,038
760
West coast, Finland
It shouldn't be mandatory to use two same GPU's in a nMP. If Fiji is a good GPU, but average GPGPU, they could use it as a primary GPU, and the secondary could be Polaris 10 for GPGPU. Then thermal needs are met even with the old Tube.

For instance, E5-1600 v4 series is going to have, most likely, 105W parts.
CPU 105W E5-1600 v4
GPU1 175W Fury Nano
GPU2 100W
=== 380W

The only problem I can see with that design is that Fiji doesn't have DP 1.3... anyway, the point is that there can be any combination really. Even Nvidia GPU and AMD GPGPU together and the best of the both worlds could be have.
 
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netkas

macrumors 65816
Oct 2, 2007
1,198
394
Ah no, please no. amd gpus in new macs means ****** support for desktop gpus from both nvidia and amd :(
 

koyoot

macrumors 603
Jun 5, 2012
5,939
1,853
Netkas, you mean the driver support?

Zarni, where do you get that E5v4 16XX series will have 105W of TDP?

Fiji in S9300X2 has 300W TDP, at 850 MHz, which means for both GPUs there is slightly less than 150W of thermal envelope. 20-21W more than D700 has. Yes, you are right that Fiji lacks DP1.3, and HDMI 2.0. What is however more important is that Fiji might not be pulled back from shops after Polaris release, which will be the case of R9 3XX series. Compute power of Polaris is lower than Fiji, and it is lower quite a lot. So Polaris will not be the fastest GPU AMD offers.

If there will be Fiji in MP I am up for Aiden's idea: increasing the power of PSU to 500W. It would fit perfectly 150W Fiji at 850 MHz. It is also compatible with HSA 2.0 and OpenCL 2.1 If I remember correctly. Problems would be with assembly because in manufacturing process you could damage the interposer of the chip, which is case of every HBM1/2 GPU.
 

Zarniwoop

macrumors 65816
Aug 12, 2009
1,038
760
West coast, Finland
Zarni, where do you get that E5v4 16XX series will have 105W of TDP?

I think that is the sweet spot for Broadwell desktop chips for perf/watt with six cores. Around 17W per core maximum. When they keep levels under that they'll have best ratio for pref/watt. There are three 105W models for 2600 class. Sure there are 120W and above too. It is matter of number of cores of course. But the increased power consumption above 17W per core returns worse performance and generates just more heat.

E3 v5 is 80W chip.. that is interesting too! Skylake can give better perf/watt ration up to 20W per core.

Anyway, my point was that if Apple wants to keep its current Tube without refinements, they could lower CPU TDP without sacrificing performance from last previous model. It is just a matter of need, which one is more important, CPU or GPU.. for gamer it is obvious... 54W Skylake i3-6000 series gives best performance per price and watt for gaming. All money spent on i5 or i7 gives poorer return. The extra 100 or 200 spent on GPU on the other hand...

With nMP is is more complicated. That's why the Tube is a mess. It can't be universally good machine.. it can be excellent on some works, but not for everybody. They should but two - three categories of nMP to choose of. One for more CPU oriented, another with focus on GPGPU and third perhaps for lower price point, but still awesome universal machine.

nMP cat 1 = 1 with high TDP or DUAL socket, one GPU
- E5-2600 v4, DDR4 ECC, one GPU up to 130W TDP
- Starting price USD 2999
nMP cat 2 = 1 CPU normal TDP, dual GPU
- E5-1600 v4, DDR4 ECC, DUAL GPU max 130W each
- Starting price USD 2999
nMP cat 3 = 1 CPU lower specs, one GPU
- E3-1500 v5 (up to 4 cores), DDR4 ECC, one GPU 200W max
- empty place of second cpu/gpu could be used for an optional storage.
- Starting price USD 1999

And this is just if they really want to keep the tube as is.
 
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netkas

macrumors 65816
Oct 2, 2007
1,198
394
Yes, driver support. amd only cares about mobile gpus in their drivers, last desktop gpu that supported well by osx drivers is 4 years old 7950/7970

Nvidia has good support only in webdriver which need to be installed.
 

Synchro3

macrumors 68000
Jan 12, 2014
1,987
850
Intel Broadwell-EP Lineup:
SKU Name Cores/Threads Base Clock L3 Cache (LLC) TDP Price
Intel Xeon E5-2699 V4 22/44 2.2 GHz 55 MB 145W $4115 US
Intel Xeon E5-2698 V4 20/40 2.2 GHz 50 MB 135W $3228 US
Intel Xeon E5-2697A V4 16/32 2.6 GHz 40 MB 145W $2891 US
Intel Xeon E5-2697 V4 18/36 2.3 GHz 45 MB 145W $2702 US
Intel Xeon E5-2695 V4 18/36 2.1 GHz 45 MB 120W $2424 US
Intel Xeon E5-2696 V4 22/44 2.1 GHz 55 MB 150W $2321 US
Intel Xeon E5-2690 V4 14/28 2.6 GHz 35 MB 135W $2090 US
Intel Xeon E5-2687W V4 12/24 3.0 GHz 30 MB 160W $2141 US
Intel Xeon E5-2683 V4 16/32 2.1 GHz 40 MB 120W $1846 US
Intel Xeon E5-2680 V4 14/28 2.4 GHz 35 MB 120W $1745 US
Intel Xeon E5-2667 V4 8/16 3.2 GHz 35 MB 135W $2057 US
Intel Xeon E5-2660 V4 14/28 2.0 GHz 35 MB 105W $1445 US
Intel Xeon E5-2650L V4 14/28 1.7 GHz 35 MB 65W $1329 US
Intel Xeon E5-2650 V4 12/24 2.2 GHz 30 MB 105W $1166 US
Intel Xeon E5-2643 V4 6/12 3.4 GHz 10 MB 135W $1552 US
Intel Xeon E5-2640 v4 10/20 2.4 GHz 25 MB 90W $939 US
Intel Xeon E5-2637 v4 4/8 3.5 GHz 5 MB 135W $996 US
Intel Xeon E5-2630 v4 10/20 2.2 GHz 25 MB 85W $667 US
Intel Xeon E5-2630L v4 10/20 1.8 GHz 25 MB 55W $612 US
Intel Xeon E5-2623 V4 4/8 2.6 GHz 5 MB 85W $444 US
Intel Xeon E5-2620 v4 8/16 2.1 GHz 20 MB 85W $417 US
Intel Xeon E5-2609 V4 8/8 1.7 GHz 20 MB 85W $306 US
Intel Xeon E5-2603 v4 6/6 1.7 GHz 10 MB 85W $213 US

http://ark.intel.com/products/codename/38530/Broadwell#@Server
 
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koyoot

macrumors 603
Jun 5, 2012
5,939
1,853
Yes, driver support. amd only cares about mobile gpus in their drivers, last desktop gpu that supported well by osx drivers is 4 years old 7950/7970

Nvidia has good support only in webdriver which need to be installed.
Thanks for answer.
 
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