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JasonMovieGuy

macrumors regular
Jan 11, 2010
116
12
Chicago, IL
My personal opinion, having owned several Macs over the years and working in several agencies that use Macs extesively: the iMac is not made to be outfitted with a 91W i7 CPU. The i5/Radeon Pro 575 configuration is really its limit in terms of providing decently quiet operation while performing well. The i5/Radeon Pro 570 is what most people should get, in my opinion.

The iMac Pro, which is constructed to house an 18 core CPU, should easily be able to cool the lowest tier configuration, which I believe is 8 core. If you really need the power, go for the iMac Pro.

For 99.99% of all users, the i5/Radeon Pro 570 of the regular iMac is more than enough. In case you like spending more on your machines for occasional gaming and bragging rights, the i5/Radeon Pro 575 upgrade could be justified. I work with creators who put out world class material using 13 inch MacBook Pros! If you truly are one of the few who needs even more power, the iMac Pro is the way to go.

Well I ordered the top tier iMac with the i7 and SSD 1TB and hope it's a smooth experience. If the machine isn't meant to run such a strong processor I guess I made a mistake and should (sigh) cancel and reorder the mid tier with an i5. Maybe I'll use the extra money to buy Final Cut Pro x that I currently can't afford because I instead went with higher configurations.

Man these boards are passive aggressive with the information you get ; I can't tell whether I did well with my order or just wasted $3500.
 
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driftless

macrumors 65816
Sep 2, 2011
1,486
183
Chicago-area
FWIW - I think the noise and heat issues with the iMac are seriously overblown. Enjoy your iMac and don't overthink things.
[doublepost=1499983272][/doublepost]
Well I ordered the top tier iMac with the i7 and SSD 1TB and hope it's a smooth experience. If the machine isn't meant to run such a strong processor I guess I made a mistake and should (sigh) cancel and reorder the mid tier with an i5. Maybe I'll use the extra money to buy Final Cut Pro x that I currently can't afford because I instead went with higher configurations.

Man these boards are passive aggressive with the information you get ; I can't tell whether I did well with my order or just wasted $3500.
 

mcomp112

macrumors regular
Jan 1, 2017
111
28
Well I ordered the top tier iMac with the i7 and SSD 1TB and hope it's a smooth experience. If the machine isn't meant to run such a strong processor I guess I made a mistake and should (sigh) cancel and reorder the mid tier with an i5. Maybe I'll use the extra money to buy Final Cut Pro x that I currently can't afford because I instead went with higher configurations.

Man these boards are passive aggressive with the information you get ; I can't tell whether I did well with my order or just wasted $3500.


You're likely to know what you need. If you need the i7-7700K, the noise is a minor inconvenience. You'll be pushing the computer to its limits for your work, and the time savings could be substantial.

My post was directed to those who don't really need the extra power. For them, dealing with an i7 will be annoying.

Enjoy your iMac! In case you find it to be annoying, you do have 15 days to replace it thanks to Apple's return policy.
 
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Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,080
7,031
My personal opinion, having owned several Macs over the years and working in several agencies that use Macs extesively: the iMac is not made to be outfitted with a 91W i7 CPU. The i5/Radeon Pro 575 configuration is really its limit in terms of providing decently quiet operation while performing well. The i5/Radeon Pro 570 is what most people should get, in my opinion.

The iMac Pro, which is constructed to house an 18 core CPU, should easily be able to cool the lowest tier configuration, which I believe is 8 core. If you really need the power, go for the iMac Pro.

For 99.99% of all users, the i5/Radeon Pro 570 of the regular iMac is more than enough. In case you like spending more on your machines for occasional gaming and bragging rights, the i5/Radeon Pro 575 upgrade could be justified. I work with creators who put out world class material using 13 inch MacBook Pros! If you truly are one of the few who needs even more power, the iMac Pro is the way to go.

You can't expect things to be quiet with this much power. Even the iMac Pro will be louder. These processors get HOT. Xeons also get HOT. The system is doing what it is designed to do, keep it cool enough to where it doesn't shut down due to overheating. How can you say the iMac is not designed for this? I can hear the base iMac at idle. It is not completely silent.
 

joema2

macrumors 68000
Sep 3, 2013
1,645
865
My personal opinion...the iMac is not made to be outfitted with a 91W i7 CPU. The i5/Radeon Pro 575 configuration is really its limit in terms of providing decently quiet operation while performing well. The i5/Radeon Pro 570 is what most people should get, in my opinion...

The iMac 27 i7 total system max power consumption (hence total generated heat) as listed in Apple's specs has decreased each year starting in 2014:

2017 iMac 27 i7 4.2 Ghz: 217 watts
2015 iMac 27 i7 4.0 Ghz: 240 watts
2014 iMac 27 i7 4.0 Ghz: 288 watts

In fact the max power consumption of the 2017 iMac 27 i7 is almost the same as the 2013 model with an i5: 217 vs 214 watts. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201918

So this year's iMac 27 i7 puts out about the same heat as a 2013 i5 model. Were people complaining about loud fan noise from the 2013 i5? If so I don't remember that.

There is some evidence the 2017 i5 is quieter under some loads than the i7, but (a) The i5 is working slower, and (b) Does that mean the i5 is really quiet?

If you run Prime95 and Furmark GPU stress concurrently for 15 minutes on an 2017 iMac 27 i5, is that really quiet? When I run that it's not quiet on my 2017 iMac 27 i7, my 2015 iMac 27 i7, my 2015 or 2016 MacBook Pro i7s, or my 4Ghz i7 Windows PC with Noctua NH-D14 cooler, Noctua case fans and 200mm supplementary case fans.

Maybe even the upcoming iMac Pro would not be quiet on that test. I mention this because many of the "too loud" statements on the 2017 iMac 27 i7 have been while running synthetic stress tests, not real-world productivity apps.
 
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EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,385
12,178
If you run Prime95 and Furmark GPU stress concurrently for 15 minutes on an 2017 iMac 27 i5, is that really quiet?
I ran Handbrake h.265 encoding for 10 minutes with the 7600 and the fan was still near silent at 1200 rpm. Temp 83C and plateaued or else at most rising very, very slowly.

i7 was at max rpm within 10s of seconds.

Somebody else with the 7500 was doing 4K transcoding for hours and the fan never went past ~1200 rpm.

Meanwhile, a simple video transcode from Photos again made the fan go to max very, very quickly on the i7.

These are realistic workloads.
 

T_Oscura

macrumors member
Feb 27, 2016
48
23
So this year's iMac 27 i7 puts out about the same heat as a 2013 i5 model. Were people complaining about loud fan noise from the 2013 i5? If so I don't remember that.

There are 2-3 videos on Youtube that I could find where users complained about high fan noise with the i7 iMac, but other than that, this is the only place where I read that it is a problem. I went to the Gearslutz forum, and it's really hard to come across any complaints about fan noise on the iMacs. Keep in mind that users there often buy the i7 model because working with audio can be quite taxing on the CPU.

I owned a self-built PC last year with the i7 6700K. I cooled it with a Corsair AIO and two Thermaltake RIING fans. If I pushed the CPU with prime95 it was not quiet, and I think for this amount of processing power noise is perfectly normal, especially in an AIO machine.
 
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EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,385
12,178
There are 2-3 videos on Youtube that I could find where users complained about high fan noise with the i7 iMac, but other than that, this is the only place where I read that it could be a problem. I went to the Gearslutz forum, and it's really hard to come across any complaints about fan noise on the iMacs. Keep in mind that users there often buy the i7 model because working with audio can be quite taxing on the CPU.

I owned a self-built PC last year with the i7 6700K. I cooled it with a Corsair AIO and two Thermaltake RIING fans. If I pushed the CPU with prime95 it was not quiet, and I think for this amount of processing power noise is perfectly normal, especially in an AIO machine.
Yes it's normal, esp. for an AIO machine. The problem though is some users may not expect it. I expected some noise, as my i7 from 2010 would generate some noise under heavy load too, but the 2017 i7 is much more trigger happy with the fan.

For the 2010 i7, a very heavy load would start the fan going after a couple of minutes. With the 2017 i7 it's in 10s of seconds. Quite a noticeable difference.

The 2015 may be worse, but had I gotten the 2015 i7, given the reports I would likely have returned that too. However, I am not a pro video editor, so I can deal with lower performance. For me, the added performance is a luxury, not a necessity. Your needs may be different, as may be your tolerance to fan noise.
 

joema2

macrumors 68000
Sep 3, 2013
1,645
865
I ran Handbrake h.265 encoding for 10 minutes with the 7600 and the fan was still near silent at 1200 rpm. Temp 83C and plateaued or else at most rising very, very slowly....i7 was at max rpm within 10s of seconds....

For the input file, what was the resolution, codec and bitrate? IOW what camera was it from? On the output, Handbrake has many different encoding parameters. What output parameters or preset did you pick? I'll be happy to run an equivalent test on my several Macs and Windows PC.
 

T_Oscura

macrumors member
Feb 27, 2016
48
23
For me, the added performance is a luxury, not a necessity. Your needs may be different, as may be your tolerance to fan noise.

You're right. If the i7 would not have twice the performance in Logic, I would choose the 7600K.
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,385
12,178
For the input file, what was the resolution, codec and bitrate? IOW what camera was it from? On the output, Handbrake has many different encoding parameters. What output parameters or preset did you pick? I'll be happy to run an equivalent test on my several Macs and Windows PC.
It's been a while since I did this, but IIRC it was the Sony camp nature video (10-bit 76 Mbps h.265, not the 8-bit one).

http://www.4ktv.de/testvideos/

It was transcoded to 4K h.265 (again) using the Roku 4K preset.

The version of Handbrake is a relatively recent nightly. I believe the nightly was necessary for hcv1 encoding support.

BTW, that original 10-bit video plays perfectly on my 2017 iMac 7600 in QuickTime via QuickSync in High Sierra. It even plays perfectly on my lowly 2017 MacBook Core m3, with about 25% overall CPU usage. I'm told the file will not play perfectly cleanly on a 2015 Core i7 iMac, which makes sense because the 2015 does not have any hardware 10-bit decode support on macOS, and the i7-7700K iMac couldn't play it cleanly via software either (in Sierra with IINA).
 
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joema2

macrumors 68000
Sep 3, 2013
1,645
865
I ran Handbrake h.265 encoding for 10 minutes with the 7600 and the fan was still near silent at 1200 rpm. Temp 83C and plateaued or else at most rising very, very slowly.... IIRC it was the Sony camp nature video (10-bit 76 Mbps h.265, not the 8-bit one)...http://www.4ktv.de/testvideos/....It was transcoded to 4K h.265 (again) using the Roku 4K preset....

I just tested this on both 2015 and 2017 iMac i7s, both with and without hyperthreading enabled. I'd be very interested if you could verify whether an iMac 27 with i7-7600 CPU remains "near silent" with fan at 1200 rpm for 10 minutes when running that same Handbrake transcode job.

On both my 2015 and 2017 iMac 27 i7, when transcoding that H265 4k video to H265 output using the Roku 4k preset, the fans rapidly increased to about 2700 rpm by +60 sec, and temps on both fluctuated from 95-100C. I could not tell any audible difference in the noise from either 2015 or 2017 machine when running this test -- they were both very noticeable.

This was unchanged when I disabled hyperthreading using the CPUSetter utility. This in effect makes the i7 like an i5. This was confirmed by watching all eight logical CPU cores in iStat Menus. When hyperthreading was on, all eight cores were at 100%. When hyperthreading was disabled, only four logical cores were at 100%, the other four were zero.

To expedite testing I used a shorter H265 video from that site with the similar characteristics: "Philips Supershop Demo 1". Using this video and the above encoding I got the following performance using Handbrake 1.0.7 to H265 with the Roku 4k/30 preset:

2015 iMac 27 i7, hyperthreading off: 12:21
2015 iMac 27 i7, hyperthreading on: 10:53

2017 iMac 27 i7, hyperthreading off: 11:11
2017 iMac 27 i7, hyperthreading on: 09:53
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,385
12,178
I just tested this on both 2015 and 2017 iMac i7s, both with and without hyperthreading enabled. I'd be very interested if you could verify whether an iMac 27 with i7-7600 CPU remains "near silent" with fan at 1200 rpm for 10 minutes when running that same Handbrake transcode job.

On both my 2015 and 2017 iMac 27 i7, when transcoding that H265 4k video to H265 output using the Roku 4k preset, the fans rapidly increased to about 2700 rpm by +60 sec, and temps on both fluctuated from 95-100C. I could not tell any audible difference in the noise from either 2015 or 2017 machine when running this test -- they were both very noticeable.

This was unchanged when I disabled hyperthreading using the CPUSetter utility. This in effect makes the i7 like an i5. This was confirmed by watching all eight logical CPU cores in iStat Menus. When hyperthreading was on, all eight cores were at 100%. When hyperthreading was disabled, only four logical cores were at 100%, the other four were zero.

To expedite testing I used a shorter H265 video from that site with the similar characteristics: "Philips Supershop Demo 1". Using this video and the above encoding I got the following performance using Handbrake 1.0.7 to H265 with the Roku 4k/30 preset:

2015 iMac 27 i7, hyperthreading off: 12:21
2015 iMac 27 i7, hyperthreading on: 10:53

2017 iMac 27 i7, hyperthreading off: 11:11
2017 iMac 27 i7, hyperthreading on: 09:53
Wow, that was some quick testing for multiple machines. :cool:

To be completely honest I couldn’t be 100% sure that was the exact file I used but I think it was. So for a brief quasi-confirmational test before I left for work, I tried it again with that specific file but only let it run for a few minutes, not the whole 10 mins (because I was running short on time). After those several minutes the fan was still at 1200 rpm.

Note though that while the i7-7700K with HT off is effectively an i5, it is a 91 W TDP i5 running at 4.4 GHz multi-Core Turbo. In contrast, my 7600 is a 65 W TDP i5 running at 3.9 GHz multi-core Turbo. Interestingly, I believe I saw somewhere the i7’s first throttling speed to cool down (if the fan isn’t sufficient) is 3.9 GHz which happens to be the exact same as the regular Turbo speed of the 7600.

BTW, I found my post on this:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/the-new-imac-is-a-lot-noisier.2051501/page-23#post-24783381

A bunch of us did some YES testing in the terminal which basically maxes out the CPU with a useless command. I ran 4 instances of yes to peg all 4 cores at 100%. After 10 minutes of this the machine plateaued at 76C, with no throttling and with the fan at 1200 rpm. Interestingly, the 7600K performed the same. No movement of the fan above 1200 rpm and similar temps. The 7600K is a 91 W TDP chip but I guess if you’re lucky it can perform similarly to the 7600. However, its max multi-core Turbo is only 4.0 GHz, which is barely more than the 3.9 GHz of the 7600 so that’s not a huge surprise.

In that post I also show my h.265 encode which after 10 minutes brought my 7600 to 83C, yet still with 1200 rpm fan.

Lots of pertinent screen grabs in there by the way, as well as some graphs from a Tom's Hardware review comparing the power utilization curves of the 7600 vs the 7600K. That same review also has the 7700K (and 7700). The graphs for the 7700K show that it is a power utilization monster, in comparison to the 7600.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...i7-7700k-i7-7700-i5-7600k-i5-7600,4870-8.html

Here is the 7700K (with HT on), with a stress test (but not a power virus test):

7700k.png


Here is the 7600 with the same load:

7600.png


With the power virus test the differences were even more striking.

7700K:

7700KPTU.png


7600:

7600PTU.png
 
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fokmik

Suspended
Oct 28, 2016
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what you think its cool on this
i wonder what is "customer removable stand" ?
but i wonder why they put BT 4.2? since any imac has it or wifi ac?? i mean they put a lot of these just to fill the page?
 

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EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,385
12,178
what you think its cool on this
i wonder what is "customer removable stand" ?
but i wonder why they put BT 4.2? since any imac has it or wifi ac?? i mean they put a lot of these just to fill the page?
Stand removable by customer of course. ;) You can put a VESA mount on these things. I did that with my 2010 Core i7 iMac BTW, so it's not exactly new.

BT 4.2 isn't new either as it's been around for a few years.
 

fokmik

Suspended
Oct 28, 2016
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so why mention BT 4.2 or P3 gamut or TB3? since they are not unique to the imac pro?
i wonder if anything from that list is new beside 1080p facetime camera
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,385
12,178
so why mention BT 4.2 or P3 gamut or TB3? since they are not unique to the imac pro?
i wonder if anything from that list is new beside 1080p facetime camera
Why not mention it? It's just an ad after all, and it's a spec it has.
 

Dave245

macrumors G3
Sep 15, 2013
9,838
8,068
so why mention BT 4.2 or P3 gamut or TB3? since they are not unique to the imac pro?
i wonder if anything from that list is new beside 1080p facetime camera

The speakers are different from those on the other iMacs.
 

Dave245

macrumors G3
Sep 15, 2013
9,838
8,068
i was talking about the list...:)
[doublepost=1500044886][/doublepost]ok, now i saw the four beam mics...ok so facetime 1080p and mics are new

My bad :) also isn't the laser drilled glass different? Also dual SSD modules?
 

joema2

macrumors 68000
Sep 3, 2013
1,645
865
.....A bunch of us did some YES testing in the terminal...graphs from a Tom's Hardware review comparing the power utilization curves of the 7600 vs the 7600K. That same review also has the 7700K (and 7700). The graphs for the 7700K show that it is a power utilization monster, in comparison to the 7600....

Thanks, that is useful information and maybe explains the differences you observed. I have only i7 systems so I can't test the i5. But overall I don't see a huge difference between the 2015 iMac i7 and 2017 iMac i7, except the 2017 is much faster on certain workloads such as FCPX. In other workloads such as Handbrake, it's only about 10% faster, which is roughly the expected CPU difference.

So while the recently-noticed difference in thermal behavior between the 2017 i5 vs i7 iMac seems valid, this is probably nothing new -- it was just recently noticed and generated a lot of comment. The fact I see little difference between the 2015 vs 2017 i7 indicates that difference vs the i5 was always here, just nobody noticed it.

This is supported by Apple's own spec page which shows a 50+ watt difference in max consumption between the i5 vs i7 version of the 2015 iMac 27: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201918
 

cynics

macrumors G4
Jan 8, 2012
11,959
2,156
OP: I would find people (a forum) that share a similar workload and see what they are running.

Based off what you have said I feel the iMac Pro will be overkill if you are working with static images even across multiple programs. I would definitely consider a lot of RAM and SSD options though.
 
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