I had time now actually. It isn't in some nice graph like the others but here are my results with the same methodology.
CB Scores on 2.2 base 15":
982
982
980
977
983
981
979
981
982
978
Average: 980.6
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2018 MBP i9: Testing w/ Volta & Fan Control
- Thread starter Aea
- Start date
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I had time now actually. It isn't in some nice graph like the others but here are my results with the same methodology.
CB Scores on 2.2 base 15":
982
982
980
977
983
981
979
981
982
978
Average: 980.6
Interesting. You're saying airflow from the fans won't cool the VRM. Given this, how is thermal management for the VRM typically handled in laptops in the 15" MBP's class (4 – 4.5 lbs.), and how does Apple's approach compare?
Thank you!
VRMs are usually padded to the heat-spreader, though sometimes they are cooled ambiently.
Now some of us are free testers for Apple. Some even paid to do the tests and to find solutions for Apple.
I've confirmed its working, my temps are reduced by 20c with the app and the settings I applied.
I'd love to know how you got the voltage control working. I followed the directions on the developer's website, and I can't make adjustments to the voltage.
So I did some quick benchmarking in the application I use most: After Effects. With Volta on and limited to 45W Intel Power Gadget shows a lot more stable of a clock speed and the render times were average of 6 Mins, 45 Secs. With Volta off I saw the usual spikes that we're seeing from throttling and the render time was 6Mins, 55 Secs.
Not sure what this means, but it doesn't seem to be that much of a boost in performance. Now that could be because After Effects is only utilizing 70% of the CPU. So we'll see how this plays out but as far as real world performance I'm not seeing too much of a boost.
Edit: Added Images
With Volta Limiting On
With Volta Limiting Off
Not sure what this means, but it doesn't seem to be that much of a boost in performance. Now that could be because After Effects is only utilizing 70% of the CPU. So we'll see how this plays out but as far as real world performance I'm not seeing too much of a boost.
Edit: Added Images
With Volta Limiting On
With Volta Limiting Off
Last edited:
I think the general consensus with the i9 is that TDP above 45w for a limited time before restricting it would likely improve things. That would more closely resemble how the other vendors are doing things. Volta doesn’t allow values above 45w so it’s difficult to tell though. XTU under bootcamp/Windows allows more granular TDP selection but that doesn’t really help us on macOS
I hope Apple can do something. I basically have 6 days to decide whether to keep my i9, but I'd love to keep it.
So it seems Apple designed the cooling system for a TDP of 45 Watts, and the system actually works decently well for a TDP for 45 Watts.
However these chips use way more than 45 Watts for sustained loads. I could understand if it was with power viruses or something, but these results are with actual and common applications, what people might actually use their MacBook Pros for in real life.
IOW, it looks like Apple took the MBP chassis, and essentially just dropped new 45 W TDP chips in there... except some of the higher end chips really shouldn't be rated as 45 W TDP.
However these chips use way more than 45 Watts for sustained loads. I could understand if it was with power viruses or something, but these results are with actual and common applications, what people might actually use their MacBook Pros for in real life.
IOW, it looks like Apple took the MBP chassis, and essentially just dropped new 45 W TDP chips in there... except some of the higher end chips really shouldn't be rated as 45 W TDP.
Then again, users would figure out they were limiting power and we'd be in the same spot with people accusing Apple of deliberately lowering performance and not letting the CPU run at it's potential. It's a lose/lose for Apple.
At the end of the day, they should t have made it so thin.
No, I would say it looks more like Apple for some reason let's the power run wild starting with this generation, as in they aren't controlling it properly. It could be the VRMs overheating by having to deliver much more power than they should and so on.
It's not Intel that sets how much power is fed to the CPUs, that is something Apples control system manage.
AFAIK, the default is not to control the power fed to the CPUs. There should usually be no hard threshold of 45 W. The chip is allowed to work as fast as it can until the temps go too high, and then it throttles. I believe it begins to throttle at 90C.
By the way, this is how my 2017 iMac Core i5-7600 behaves with the YES x 4 test, which pegs the quad-core quad-thread CPU at 100% usage.
Even though this is a 65 Watt TDP chip, at full tilt in this test the power utilization is only 45 Watts (for the package). There is no throttling at all because the temp has remained under 90 degrees C. The base clock speed of this chip is 3.5 GHz, yet it runs solidly at 3.9 GHz, which makes sense since the all-core Turbo of this machine is 3.9 GHz. So, for all intents and purposes, this machine is a 3.9 GHz quad-core machine, despite being labelled a 3.5 GHz machine. The temp is slowly climbing though.
For comparison, let's look at my 2017 MacBook Core m3-7Y32 with the same YES x 4 test.
Here this (presumably) 7 W dual-core 4-thread chip (using TDPup) running at around 10 Watts (for the package), maxed out at 2.6 GHz. But the temp climbs much quicker since the the machine is fanless. Eventually the temp hits 90C and then it throttles, but only slightly down to about 9 Watts, to limit the speed to 2.5 GHz. I tried running Volta to control the wattage to see what happens, but for some reason everything is greyed out so I can't use it.
So again, there is no wattage control of the chip by the machine, until it throttles. However, even though it does throttle, it's OK because it throttles very mildly and performance is relatively maintained. Max all-core speed is 2.6 GHz but under throttling it never drops below 2.5 GHz.
I'd be curious to see how the 2018 MacBook Pros behave with a YES x 12 test. (It was just x 4 for me since both of my 2017 machines are only quad-thread).
http://osxdaily.com/2012/10/02/stress-test-mac-cpu/
On a 6-core 12-thread machine, the Terminal command would be:
yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null &
To stop the test, it's:
killall yes
From what I know the default has always been to control the power limit (not a fixed limit though as it is dynamic) and that is what other manufacturers are doing with their i9s. They let the CPU run more or less uncontrolled for short loads and then when the load is sustained they have a long term power limit. This to get a stable long term clock as just temperature control would make it a very blunt control unit for sustained loads.
Either way, it would be useful to see the results of a YES x 12 test with Intel Power Gadget. My guess is it would throttle at least as hard as the videos have shown with other applications, or perhaps would throttle even harder.
So here is what I observed with the YES X 12 test
This is Default with no Volta or FAN control:
This is with Volta set to 45W MAX:
This is with Volta set to 45W MAX and Macs Fan Control (CPU PECI 50 C):
This is just Volta at 45W MAX for longer sample
Appears to me that once the system gets to 100 C is when the aggressive behavior starts regardless of Volta usage or not. With Volta it was fine until it hit 100 C then it wobbled and if you look at the last graph it eventually starts to normalize somewhat once the temps are regulated around 98 C. With Macs Fan control and Volta it simply takes much longer to get towards 100 C but it seemed to hang out at 98 C. Hope this is helpful
This is Default with no Volta or FAN control:
This is with Volta set to 45W MAX:
This is with Volta set to 45W MAX and Macs Fan Control (CPU PECI 50 C):
This is just Volta at 45W MAX for longer sample
Appears to me that once the system gets to 100 C is when the aggressive behavior starts regardless of Volta usage or not. With Volta it was fine until it hit 100 C then it wobbled and if you look at the last graph it eventually starts to normalize somewhat once the temps are regulated around 98 C. With Macs Fan control and Volta it simply takes much longer to get towards 100 C but it seemed to hang out at 98 C. Hope this is helpful
I completely agree, but I think it would have been less of a loss if they had limited the power before hand instead of having people being disappointed with the performance after getting the MBP
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Yah, and it should not have been so. I do not know why, but the quality control at apple seems to be getting worse
