I just installed 15.6 beta 3 and no change for me.
Had to go back to SwitchResX
Had to go back to SwitchResX
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(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(
- Thread starter Appledoesnotlisten
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STOP BEING A FANBOY AND APOLOGIZING FOR APPLE!
Obviously I'm just kidding. But I don't understand how you can be so blaise about it. $800 is a lot of money for most people!
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FYI I use it with USB - C --> DP cable.
I do have a USBC monitor incoming but don't feel like spending whatever amount of more $$ to find the right cable so I'm sticking with this solution for now especially that it works... well I hope it will work with new monitor lol.
Also FYI apple has a few refurbished baseline 16" in stock.
If you want clamshell then extra $16 for switchresx ain't a bad option. Works consistently without issues.
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Well, give me a minute to catch up
Seriously though...a bit similar to what ateslik wrote, you give *me* a vibe of, at best, condoning Apple's behavior...just accept being screwed over. That encourages Apple to continue to screw us over imo. OTOH, I do kinda "get"...after keyboard-gate, Thermal-gate, etc --- it's exhausting to fight the seemingly never-ending battles, the energy it wastes, etc.
So, I apologize for calling you a fanboy.
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I honestly don't mind being called whichever. But you guys are very insistent on stating the problem without proposing possible working solutions.
Apple isn't even reading this forum, so continuing to point out to me and many others that "there is a problem" doesn't help because we can't do anything about it.
I'm not condoning Apple's actions. But I'm stuck with my computer, as do some others, and I'd prefer to give them known working solutions rather than just telling them "it's a problem Apple needs to fix".
So I hope that's clearer.
Apple isn't even reading this forum, so continuing to point out to me and many others that "there is a problem" doesn't help because we can't do anything about it.
I'm not condoning Apple's actions. But I'm stuck with my computer, as do some others, and I'd prefer to give them known working solutions rather than just telling them "it's a problem Apple needs to fix".
So I hope that's clearer.
Your post is #2507. There are tons of "workarounds", but no solutions. The workarounds range from more money (SwitchResX, only in clamshell) to downright ridiculous (flipping the monitor 180??!).
Open lid does not work in any configuration. There is NO solution.
Well then by all means let's be apathetic and not try.
None of us have any way to know if Apple reads these or not. But the lawyers can certainly use this material for the class action, so let's keep going if you don't mind.
But it IS a problem that Apple needs to fix. Or AMD. That's the whole point of the 2500 posts in this thread, the 204 pages over at the Apple discussion forum, and now the building protests at the AMD forum. AMD or Apple CAN fix this. Booting into bootcamp and running the Windows drivers for the same exact computer, monitor, and cable works perfectly. Something is obviously wrong with the MacOS driver. It is not a hardware problem.
Telling people to suck it up or go spend another $700 - $1000 dollars is not okay.
Crystal.
You're really too much. I can't help you.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree. I don't have time to talk in circles.
I'm not sure what I need help with. Originally, my post wasn't even addressing you. You were the one that brought all of this up.
An eGPU can be had for less than $500:
eGFX Breakaway Puck RX 560 (Portable eGPU System)
Portable eGPU for computers with Thunderbolt 3 ports. Features an AMD Radeon RX 560 GPU, temperature-controlled fan, four video ports and one Thunderbolt 3 port.
www.sonnetstore.com
So whether you disagree or agree with me doesn't change the fact that there is already a workaround for every problem:
1. Clamshell works with some USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 displays, or SwitchResX can be used.
2. If you must use multiple displays, the 5600M might address that, or a $299 eGPU can help as well.
I'm not sure what I need help with. Originally, my post wasn't even addressing you. You were the one that brought all of this up.
An eGPU can be had for less than $500:
eGFX Breakaway Puck RX 560 (Portable eGPU System)
Portable eGPU for computers with Thunderbolt 3 ports. Features an AMD Radeon RX 560 GPU, temperature-controlled fan, four video ports and one Thunderbolt 3 port.
So whether you disagree or agree with me doesn't change the fact that there is already a workaround for every problem:
1. Clamshell works with some USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 displays, or SwitchResX can be used.
2. If you must use multiple displays, the 5600M might address that, or a $299 eGPU can help as well.
Seriously?
Works = spend more money and pretend the issue doesn't exist??
Ad 1. "SOME" is keyword. Do you see apple saying "SOME" anywhere on the MBP page?
Ad 2. Do you see ANYWHERE on apple website where they say that to use multiple monitors you have to buy the 5600 for $700 more or (!!!) eGPU?
Just stop already.
We are all trying to find a temporary solution to get a VERY EXPENSIVE laptop to work as advertised without excessive temperatures which can cause the top cover to heat up so much you CAN'T type using the built in keyboard rofl. This ain't a slick oven with a monitor.
1. Does Clamshell work with multiple displays? I thought no one achieved <18W using two or more monitors in clamshell with the 5300M / 5500M.
2. The $300 eGPU you linked is sold out, only provide 60W PD and performs 50% worse than the 5300M. This is better suited for Macbook Airs / iMac / Mac minis.
A real eGPU for the 16" seems to be around $500-700 including the enclosure and at this point it seems better to also have the added power on the go with the 5600M for 700$. Except going from the base 16" refurbished to a new base 16" + 5600M is a $1160 upgrade.
That's sucks for people like me who need more power than the Intel GPU for Xcode simulator / Android Preview but is perfectly fine with the 5300M. I just wanted to replace my 8 year old desktop PC with this, running three monitors silently during light use.
The base 16" was the perfect machine for my use case, especially when I saw they were proudly showing off running 2 x 6k displays with the open lid on their product page.
I might wait until their next event for a refreshment of the 16" offerings. Maybe a "mid-range" HBM2 dGPU would be available at that point, or the 5600M will show up in their refurbished stores...
Out of the box high temperatures and high fan speed under very light loading
Specs
Apple MacBook Pro 16 – 2019 (16", Retina, Intel Core i9-9880H, 16GB, 1000GB, SSD
Model Ref: MVVK2SM
Stats with light loading and external monitor connected (USB-C to Displayport):
Full Specs:
Without external monitor connected:
SUPPORTING IMAGES
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SUPPORTING LINKS
forums.macrumors.com
community.amd.com
medium.com
discussions.apple.com
discussions.apple.com
discussions.apple.com
forums.macrumors.com
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news.ycombinator.com
Specs
Apple MacBook Pro 16 – 2019 (16", Retina, Intel Core i9-9880H, 16GB, 1000GB, SSD
Model Ref: MVVK2SM
Stats with light loading and external monitor connected (USB-C to Displayport):
Full Specs:
Without external monitor connected:
SUPPORTING IMAGES
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(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(
I received a base 16" today and am disappointed because it get's as hot as my 2017 with an external 4K monitor. Is anybody else experiencing the same issue? I always work with external monitors and running on high resolution and this heating performance is upsetting. It's not cooler than the...
forums.macrumors.com
Re: Macbook Pro 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(
I agree. This is a very fundamental issue which would have been quickly identified by any user after several minutes connected to an external monitor. Total schoolboy error and rookie mistake to miss such a glaring problem. Not a good look for Apple and/or AMD SUPPORTING IMAGES...
16 “MacBook Pro: Complaints about heat and fan noise
Apple’s newly launched MacBook Pro can cause problems when connecting one or more external monitors: Together with a monitor, the 16 “MacBook Pro gets noticeably hot after a short time and starts to…
MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise - Apple Community
16" MBP Radeon 5500: High fan noise / GPU… - Apple Community
MacBook Pro 16" overheating with external… - Apple Community
Twice as high: Temperature 16" Clamshell (closed) vs. normal (open) use.
I got my 16" MacBook Pro (2.4 i9; 8gb 5500M; 64gb of ram) two days ago. Before I was using a six year old 15" MBP, which never had any problems temperature wise. When I use the MacBook the normal way (opened, without being connected to anything) in university I get really nice low temperatures...
forums.macrumors.com
Loud fans on 16" macbook pro
I´m coming from a old (2014) 13" macbook pro and I'm amazed at how freaking! loud the fans on my new 16" mbp are. it's practically unbearable when I'm editing in Premiere Pro, as the fans spin up the noise level is really intense, so much that I'm forced to work with headphones with noice...
forums.macrumors.com
MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise (2019) | Hacker News
news.ycombinator.com
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I think this is right. I tried a bunch of monitors in clamshell mode and faced the issues on anything that did not have a 16:9 aspect ratio.
I use one of those with 3 monitors on my desk at work, but I do linux programming so whatever.
The problem with the MBPs is they stuffed too much power into such a thin and light chassis lol. You can't escape the physics problems. Beefy GPUs produce a lot of heat that has to go somewhere.
That’s not the case here because as others have reported on Bootcamp the exact same machine does not have these issues. It’s a bug / driver issue in MacOS. The 5600m is even more “beefy” and doesn’t have these problems either
There's no reason for the machines to consume 20W+ on idle, if you have any experience with hardware, clocking and volting practices, you'd know - simply switch to Bootcamp and observe how the same hardware can be run with lower idle watt usages, and even the Bootcamp/Windows idle usage is high in my opinion
The GPU seem to be able to use 5W on idle, for some reason it's using 20W with an external screen, this is what this thread is all about, stop diluting things
I'm not sure what I need help with. Originally, my post wasn't even addressing you. You were the one that brought all of this up.
An eGPU can be had for less than $500:
eGFX Breakaway Puck RX 560 (Portable eGPU System)
Portable eGPU for computers with Thunderbolt 3 ports. Features an AMD Radeon RX 560 GPU, temperature-controlled fan, four video ports and one Thunderbolt 3 port.
So whether you disagree or agree with me doesn't change the fact that there is already a workaround for every problem:
1. Clamshell works with some USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 displays, or SwitchResX can be used.
2. If you must use multiple displays, the 5600M might address that, or a $299 eGPU can help as well.
Was your excuse for Apple's Macbook keyboards failing for years also that you can just buy 1 external keyboard for 15 bucks and use it instead?
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So why it works better with a even beefier gpu? 5600m
Which has what? Different drivers!
Yes it does (at least 5500M). This is currently my only acceptable workaround: using 2 ext displays in clamshell instead of bult-in + external. I think it's very important to have the two ext displays use the same resolutions or refresh rates? I'm not sure, but my setups are:
- clamshell + 24" BenQ GL2460 1920x1080@60Hz + 24" BenQ GL2450 1920x1080@60Hz
- clamshell + 23" LG IPS 235V 1920x1080 + 24" BenQ 1920x1080 (will check exact refresh rates when I get back home)
Both the above setups are cool and quiet (Radeon High Side 5-7W most of the time).
edit: as far as cables go I have been using 2x the original Apple AV adapter + HDMI cable: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MUF82AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter
Now I'm using Caldigit Mini Dock (2x HDMI version): https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HMX02ZM/A/caldigit-thunderbolt-3-mini-dock
(I have registered on this forum just to post in this discussion. I check here for updates daily, this issue is very, very problematic for me)
For those of you saying Apple don't read this forums, I believe they might be, even if they don't, I believe some users and trolls employed indirectly by Apple, maybe through a marketing/pr firm etc.
So some users indeed blamed others (happened to me too) for not buying external keyboards - It just put a smile on my face when it came up again
So just try to ignore the employed trolls
So some users indeed blamed others (happened to me too
) for not buying external keyboards - It just put a smile on my face when it came up againSo just try to ignore the employed trolls
I don't get that impression at all. I think bill-p is just stating the facts. It is what it is. It works the way it works. It shouldn't, I'd love it if it didn't, but it does and it's almost certainly not going to be fixed by AMD or Apple who both have clearly indicated it is working as designed.Well, give me a minute to catch up
Seriously though...a bit similar to what ateslik wrote, you give *me* a vibe of, at best, condoning Apple's behavior...just accept being screwed over. That encourages Apple to continue to screw us over imo. OTOH, I do kinda "get"...after keyboard-gate, Thermal-gate, etc --- it's exhausting to fight the seemingly never-ending battles, the energy it wastes, etc.
So, I apologize for calling you a fanboy.
1. Use clamshell with the right resolution, refresh rate and possibly cables. This inconsistent behaviour does sound like a bug, though, but that can often be worked around.
2. Upgrade to 5600m (expensive).
3. Add an eGPU and live with its quirks (also expensive).
The high power consumption with lid open has never been shown to work on any 16" machine other than with 5600m. If you need low power consumption with an external display and the lid open, get the 5600m or an eGPU. This almost certainly won't be fixed by Apple or AMD.
It seems clear the max memory speed is intentional behaviour to work around graphical glitches with multiple displays and resolutions, and the high power usage (higher than previous generations) with max memory speed is a hardware issue.
The 5600m draws less power because of hbm2 memory. It doesn't seem to be a driver bug. The drivers are behaving as designed. The design just sucks.
Windows uses way less 3d to render its interface than macos so idle power will be lower even with memory at max speed.
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Different memory!
I think dGPU high usage with external display it's not the one problem. It's global problem with USB-C ports since 2016. When I bought a 13" MacBook Pro 2016 I find that it stays definitely hotter with external monitor connected. Then I use 13" Pro 2017, 15" Pro 2017 — it all has the some problem — too hot when idle with just connected display.
Now with 16" also have the problem. Of course, probably there additional trouble with Radeon memory, but not with it one. The global problem is in Thunderbolt/USB-C/etc controller! Try to connect something to port, even one empty(!!) usb-c to usb adapter or Apple Digital AV adapter or everything else (except original charger, thanks Apple! 😝) and you will see how increasing temp of sensor Thunderbolt Left/Right Proximity up to 50 C !! With display it immediately grows to 53-56 C. I somewhere read that maximum is 60C so fans will start to prevent overheating this controllers no matter which temp on CPU/GPU.
Without any connections (or only charger) Thunderbolt Left/Right Proximity stays about 33 C. And MacBook always cool.
So, these MacBooks are unusable with any of connections! Not only external displays. Forget about ports. And 5600M will not solve the problem at all. Yes, it may be helps to stays bit cooler, no fan noise, but it still has hot surface! Damn Apple 😡
Wait for ARM, I hope and believe that only it helps.
P.S. Thinking now to buy a used iPad Pro 12.9 to use as external display wirelessly via Sidecar. Has anyone good experience with it? Probably it will much better than foolish eGPU, that not solve completely overheating and in the same time adds more inconvenience.
Now with 16" also have the problem. Of course, probably there additional trouble with Radeon memory, but not with it one. The global problem is in Thunderbolt/USB-C/etc controller! Try to connect something to port, even one empty(!!) usb-c to usb adapter or Apple Digital AV adapter or everything else (except original charger, thanks Apple! 😝) and you will see how increasing temp of sensor Thunderbolt Left/Right Proximity up to 50 C !! With display it immediately grows to 53-56 C. I somewhere read that maximum is 60C so fans will start to prevent overheating this controllers no matter which temp on CPU/GPU.
Without any connections (or only charger) Thunderbolt Left/Right Proximity stays about 33 C. And MacBook always cool.
So, these MacBooks are unusable with any of connections! Not only external displays. Forget about ports. And 5600M will not solve the problem at all. Yes, it may be helps to stays bit cooler, no fan noise, but it still has hot surface! Damn Apple 😡
Wait for ARM, I hope and believe that only it helps.
P.S. Thinking now to buy a used iPad Pro 12.9 to use as external display wirelessly via Sidecar. Has anyone good experience with it? Probably it will much better than foolish eGPU, that not solve completely overheating and in the same time adds more inconvenience.
Probably best to not give Apple more money than necessary, I just sold my 2017 with Radeon 560, otherwise I'd check, but I don't remember it being this hot and moody
Apart from the faulty keyboard and the swollen li-po, honestly it was a more reliable machine - extra reliability came from the lack of small GPU issues, the occasional crashing app etc.
Even Netflix fails to play video on both Safari and Chrome the same way from time to time, audio cuts, video goes dark, but the last time it happened, I guess re-connecting the external display fixed the issue
So we have good speakers, good keyboard, slightly worse display, and slightly-glitchy/hot GPU - overall just for the keyboard seems to be worth it, but let's not forget we get screwed from all fronts
So, TL;DR: Don't give Apple more money
Apart from the faulty keyboard and the swollen li-po, honestly it was a more reliable machine - extra reliability came from the lack of small GPU issues, the occasional crashing app etc.
Even Netflix fails to play video on both Safari and Chrome the same way from time to time, audio cuts, video goes dark, but the last time it happened, I guess re-connecting the external display fixed the issue
So we have good speakers, good keyboard, slightly worse display, and slightly-glitchy/hot GPU - overall just for the keyboard seems to be worth it, but let's not forget we get screwed from all fronts
So, TL;DR: Don't give Apple more money