(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[danny_f]

I just started a thread regarding the 2019 16" running hotter for youtube videos than my 2017 13" base MBP.

2019 16" i9 MBP ( too hot? ) vs 2017 13" Base

Let me first say that I am pedantic when it comes to ANY noise coming from my apple laptops. So I am looking for any slight sounds that may be annoying to me. Here are my experiences with the 16" i9 2019. Seems that the 2019 runs hotter. Simple video viewing on youtube I notice my 2019 16" fan...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[davidbend]

Looks like another hot weekend ahead guys

Click here to read my full letter to Mr Tim Cook
View attachment 932522

Do you think that you will get any response from him?

 

[jaduffy007]

Smc nvram reset don’t work. The new cable somehow corrupted my hardware/smc/thunderbolt. I have done clean install. Nothing helps. I’m unable to use my last working custom resolution 🤣 Seriously guys, this will be my last Apple laptop...

2019 16" will be my last "high performance" Apple laptop, for sure.

 

[dooyou]

2019 16" will be my last "high performance" Apple laptop, for sure.

Many alternatives then do not remain. The often praised Dell XPS has had at least as many articles about dozens of different problems for years. I had the Thinkpad PXX. Great device, but there are also some not very benevolent contributions. Especially since it's clearly bulkier. May not forget as said, that millions of the devices are sold. We here are a small group.

 

[Cosmo M3]

Does anyone have a definitive answer as to whether this is a software issue (that can be fixed by a software update) or a hardware issue (in which case this thread should perhaps have the subheading "abandon hope all ye who enter here")?

things went south after the 10.15.4 update
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I'm going to update to the 10.15.6 Beta and see if that fixes the issue. If not, I'm going full-on Big Sur because I have nothing else to lose at this point.

 

[ConnorMac]

Do you think that you will get any response from him?

Appears that my email to Mr Tim Cook tcook@apple.com which was sent on Wednesday July 8th was opened today Friday July 10th..

..then it was forwarded on and opened several times, which categorised it as a "hot conversation". A little ironic given the topic of this thread...

..then I got a call from Apple Support around 1400 CET. He thanked me for my valuable feedback, but offered no concrete steps towards making my 2019 MacBook Pro function as well as my 2015 MacBook Pro did. It is indeed a sad day when someone has been forced to set their expectations of a $3000 new device so low that they simply want it to function at least as well as their previous 2015 device. Not better, but at least as well.

One grain of hope was that he said there may be an Apple Service Program created if enough feedback reaches Apple

 

[The-Reporter]

Many alternatives then do not remain. The often praised Dell XPS has had at least as many articles about dozens of different problems for years. I had the Thinkpad PXX. Great device, but there are also some not very benevolent contributions. Especially since it's clearly bulkier. May not forget as said, that millions of the devices are sold. We here are a small group.

There are many alternatives. The Dell XPS is not in same category (midrange gaming portable).
In MBP 16 category (good perfs and "reliability" near worksation, in small package), for example :

• Dell Precision 5550 (new)
• Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen 2
• HP ZBook Studio G7 (new)

All of these offer i9 to Xeon CPU, and Nvidia RTX to Quadro GPU. And they have Nvidia Optimus, so Intel iGPU can be used (and Nvidia dGPU disabled) even with an external screen, unlike MacBook Pro. And they can be chosen with OLED screens. They have >=80Wh battery capacity (80, 83, 86). Even 96Wh for ZBook Studio G5, so nearly MBP 16 (99Wh).

 

[poematik13]

Just got my 2.6 i7/32GB/5500 8GB/512GB yesterday. It does indeed get hotter and louder than my last laptop (2019 13" 1.4ghz) when connected to a TS3+ that feeds my Dell P2415Q via DP. Fans are about 2400-3500RPM when doing normal tasks (outlook mail, chrome, phone call, and messages all up) which is pretty audible and sounds like those junk gamer Windows laptops and not like a refined mac.

I installed turbo boost switcher and now we're smoothly hovering around 1800-2200RPM and faintly audible so I'm happy.

Pro apps are a different story. I have it set to turbo boost ON for FCP/Resolve/Photoshop/etc and with the Dell connected it spikes to 3500+ RPM and I can probably cook an egg on that 1" of open space between the bottom of the screen and the top of the touch bar. But performance is excellent. I can playback my current project on FCP at full res with no stuttering wheras my 13" would lag and choke. Resolve is pretty smooth too. And it eats large PSD's in Affinity and Photoshop.

This thing literally breathes fire, but it's worth it. It's just a different class of laptop than what I'm normally used to.

The one "issue" I'm definitely having is that when connected to my 87 watt (85 + new firmware update) TS3+ and using FCP, an external SSD, and P2415Q for video out there seems to not be enough power delivery so in 20-30 mins I go down from 100% to 87%....Caldigit support says that power delivery should not be an issue and it's recommended by Apple so we'll see how it goes

All of these offer i9 to Xeon CPU, and Nvidia RTX to Quadro GPU. And with Nvidia Optimus, so Intel iGPU can be used even with an external screen, unlike MacBook Pro.

And all of those only have like a 1 hour battery life and come loaded with OEM and 3rd party bloatware. lol

 

[bomby0]

Just got my 2.6 i7/32GB/5500 8GB/512GB yesterday. It does indeed get hotter and louder than my last laptop (2019 13" 1.4ghz) when connected to a TS3+ that feeds my Dell P2415Q via DP. Fans are about 2400-3500RPM when doing normal tasks (outlook mail, chrome, phone call, and messages all up) which is pretty audible and sounds like those junk gamer Windows laptops and not like a refined mac.

I installed turbo boost switcher and now we're smoothly hovering around 1800-2200RPM and faintly audible so I'm happy.

Pro apps are a different story. I have it set to turbo boost ON for FCP/Resolve/Photoshop/etc and with the Dell connected it spikes to 3500+ RPM and I can probably cook an egg on that 1" of open space between the bottom of the screen and the top of the touch bar. But performance is excellent. I can playback my current project on FCP at full res with no stuttering wheras my 13" would lag and choke. Resolve is pretty smooth too. And it eats large PSD's in Affinity and Photoshop.

This thing literally breathes fire, but it's worth it. It's just a different class of laptop than what I'm normally used to.

The one "issue" I'm definitely having is that when connected to my 87 watt (85 + new firmware update) TS3+ and using FCP, an external SSD, and P2415Q for video out there seems to not be enough power delivery so in 20-30 mins I go down from 100% to 87%....Caldigit support says that power delivery should not be an issue and it's recommended by Apple so we'll see how it goes



And all of those only have like a 1 hour battery life and come loaded with OEM and 3rd party bloatware. lol

It is so sad we have to resort to using turbo boost switcher to cripple our Macbook Pros just so the fan noise isn't insane

 

[poematik13]

It is so sad we have to resort to using turbo boost switcher to cripple our Macbook Pros just so the fan noise isn't insane

Is it really crippled if it's doing all of my work at a satisfying level of performance?

Seems like you guys are more interested in on-paper numbers and specs than actual real-world problem solving and design.

 

[dooyou]

There are many alternatives. The Dell XPS is not in same category (midrange gaming portable).
In MBP 16 category (good perfs near worksation, in small package), for example :

• Dell Precision 5550 (new)
• Lenovo ThinkPad P1
• HP ZBook Studio G7 (new)

All of these offer i9 to Xeon CPU, and Nvidia RTX to Quadro GPU. And with Nvidia Optimus, so Intel iGPU can be used even with an external screen, unlike MacBook Pro.

I already mentioned Lenovos PX Series. You added two other models. Many alternatives? I'm not sure. But that's all right, everybody has his own opinion and thats fine.

I don't see the Macbook as a workstation, especially not because of the fan concept. I really can't see the big differences to the XPS. The target group definition for the XPS has become much more obsolete since its release.

I think grumpy board members (like me) are to be found everywhere. Regardless of the manufacturer.

 

[t2nerb]

Is it really crippled if it's doing all of my work at a satisfying level of performance?

Seems like you guys are more interested in on-paper numbers and specs than actual real-world problem solving and design.

The thing is... it IS crippled. Due to the high temps when connected to an external monitor, my MBP is throttling significantly more. My build times increase ~15% when connected to an external monitor which is a big inhibitor to my productivity.

 

[poematik13]

The thing is... it IS crippled. Due to the high temps when connected to an external monitor, my MBP is throttling significantly more. My build times increase ~15% when connected to an external monitor which is a big inhibitor to my productivity.

Would you still lose 15% of time if you had turbo boost switched off? Or would it be more like 10%

 

[dooyou]

Honestly, I understand everyone who is upset about having to use a tool to turn off Turbo Boost. What's the point of buying a high-performance laptop (paying a lot of money) if you have to throttle it down. Usually (in the past) we bought Macs to avoid having to deal with such stupid PC tools. That's why we have laughed about pc users for so many years. Macs had always been known to just doing their job.

But yes, according to Apple they still do. Expected behavier!

 

[ConnorMac]

It is so sad we have to resort to using turbo boost switcher to cripple our Macbook Pros just so the fan noise isn't insane

Crippled my MBP16 in the following ways in order to get it to give a good user experience like my old 2015 MBP did..

1. i9 processor capability cut in half with Turbo Boost disabled
2. External screen resolution reduced to 1980s 50Hz with SwitchResX

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Honestly, I understand everyone who is upset about having to use a tool to turn off Turbo Boost. What's the point of buying a high-performance laptop (paying a lot of money) if you have to throttle it down. Usually (in the past) we bought Macs to avoid having to deal with such stupid PC tools. That's why we have laughed about pc users for so many years. Macs had always been known to just doing their job.

But yes, according to Apple they still do. Expected behavier!

Crippled my MBP16 in the following ways in order to get it to give a good user experience like my old 2015 MBP did..

1. i9 processor capability cut in half with Turbo Boost disabled
2. External screen resolution reduced to 1980s 50Hz with SwitchResX

 

[Corncab44]

My initial impression of a just received i9 2.3, 5600m is positive. This new one behaves how I wished/expected the i9/5500m configs I tried (a few actually returning them to Apple along the way).

Right now I have lid open, USBC to an LG 27" 4k display, Parallels running a Windows VM using 2 cores, probably 60 chrome tabs open and Zoom mtg video active. Turbo Boost Pro is not installed. Radeon High Side is 13W (highest I've seen it go), high CPU temp is 70, fans moving around between 2.1-2.4k. On the other configs fans would be 3k+ w a Zoom mtg running (and with TBP enabled). Without TBP on the 5600 config, seems my CPU temp is higher than usual, but fans are lower. I also have 2 USBC cables plugged in on the left side (temp is 56). Switching those to the right plugs didn't impact the fans. The physical temp of the keyboard still gets warm, as does the area above the touchbar, but seems less hot than the others.

With Zoom off, Radeon High Side bounces between 8-10W, CPU temp at 63, fans at 1.8k.

Firing up Ableton Live, Radeon High Side, temp, fans are acting similar to when I had Zoom going.
View attachment 932227
I'll be curious if things go lower once I install TBP, though at these levels I may not need to use it as I have yet to hear the fans from my sitting distance (barely audible when I put my ear up next to it).

I'd kill for this kind of fan/performance on my i9.You aren't plugged into a monitor, though, I take it?

 

[Grohowiak]

I had apple engineer go through system diagnostics and have interesting stats that I dug out of the file that was generated.
Basically using xcode as intended + 2 safari tabs my temps are hovering around 80 with bursts to 97 - 100 degrees Celsius. Not an isolated event. Those are the temps that this thing is operating at for hours every day. I wonder what is the performance hit from throttling. Can't find that info in those files. My GPU temp is averaging at 80. This numbers don't drop by much when working. Idle is about 60. This is with lid open and 1x 2K ultra wide usb-c to usb-c and nothing else connected to the laptop.

The fans are having a blast running between 80-100% so I'm inside a wind tunnel.
In some occasions my touch bar freezes and I believe this is due to the excessive heat in that area cause in laptop mode it never happened and I use the system in exactly same way.

For reference, without external screen, all the temps are about 15 Celsius lower.

I'm pretty sure I will kill this laptop with the temps well before my appleCare+ expires.

 

[ConnorMac]

Sustained high temperatures on the CPU, GPU, touch bar, screen and battery are gonna kill them all pretty quickly

My MBP 16 will never last 5 years as my 2015 did. No way.

Hmmm could this be the plan all along? Planned Obsolescence

Seems very odd that not one single 2020 Apple MacBook of any specification in the entire current product lineup runs at decent temperatures and relatively quietly. (Confirmed by Apple Store Manager July 8th 2020)

Planned obsolescence - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Corncab44]

Is it normal for the 5300m/5500m to draw 20 watts of power when plugged into an external? That's what I'm seeing when plugged into my 4k monitor. Seems awfully high.
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i have one and have the same behavior (17-20W in clamshell mode)
I also have a LG 5K and in that case, in clamshell mode, the power goes down to 5-7W when not doing GPU intensive stuff.
with both if I open the lid, Radeon jumps to ~20W.

MBP16, i9 2.3, 5500M 8Gb

I have the exact same set up as you and same power draw from the Radeon when I'm working with the lid open and pushing a 4k dell monitor. Seems very high?

 

[bomby0]

Is it really crippled if it's doing all of my work at a satisfying level of performance?

Seems like you guys are more interested in on-paper numbers and specs than actual real-world problem solving and design.

Well my real world numbers are 5500rpm fans and loud as hell. Other real world numbers: paid an extra $300 for the 8-core i9 upgrade and now I have to turn off turbo boost.

I'm not mad at you or anything for trying to solve the problem and trying to help everyone. I think this is really Apple's fault for bad design and saying this is "normal behavior" when it clearly isn't.

 

[Corncab44]

After 100+ posts here, to what degree (no pun intended) do folks trace their issues with fan noise/overheating to the graphics card drawing too much when plugged into a monitor vs. the cpu running to hot (which possibly can be dealt with via turbo boost switcher, crippling effects aside). Finally, what do you consider an acceptable level of fan RPMs while plugged into a 4k monitor doing intensive, but not super graphic-intensive, work?

 

[matram]

For me to reach 5000 rpm on the fans requires a total system load of 80 - 90 W.

 

[ConnorMac]

After 100+ posts here, to what degree (no pun intended) do folks trace their issues with fan noise/overheating to the graphics card drawing too much when plugged into a monitor vs. the cpu running to hot (which possibly can be dealt with via turbo boost switcher, crippling effects aside). Finally, what do you consider an acceptable level of fan RPMs while plugged into a 4k monitor doing intensive, but not super graphic-intensive, work?

AMD 5500 graphics card drawing too much wattage with ext screen is the core of the issue. Heats up and then fans exceed 2500rpm and become noisy

I used my old MBP 2015 for the same light work (two Chrome tabs) with the same ext monitor and it was cool, calm and collected

Sure the occasional spike in temps and fan speeds is ok and expected when executing a heavy task, but 95 deg c and 5k fans looking at my gmail in Chrome is gonna drive me to get a PC soon

 

[jaduffy007]

Many alternatives then do not remain. The often praised Dell XPS has had at least as many articles about dozens of different problems for years. I had the Thinkpad PXX. Great device, but there are also some not very benevolent contributions. Especially since it's clearly bulkier. May not forget as said, that millions of the devices are sold. We here are a small group.

I will be returning to using a desktop ... for desktop "pro" applications. As soon as an ARM based iMac is available...my 16" goes on Craigslist. I'll add an iPad Pro or entry level Apple laptop for general, mobile computing needs. I suspect I can start this transition within 6 months.

 

[Corncab44]

I have to say, having moved from windows to Mac for the first time, I have to laugh at how many things I never thought about on Windows are now totally preoccupying me. I thought it was supposed to be the other way around? I'm installing a bunch of different apps to try to make my $3500 computer function normally? I still like the laptop, but, again, pretty funny as a longtime Windows user.
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Is this less of a problem with the 5300m than the 5500m? I have both models at the moment, an i7 in the first and an i9 with the 5500m. Seems like the power draw from an external monitor is consistent, but I wondered...