(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[Mity]

Hey @IceStormNG

Seems like the mod is helping a bit.
I used less pad on some areas like in the TB3 chips (I only applied one layer), with two was being difficult to close the case

View attachment 964545

What app is this? https://forums.macrumors.com/attachments/bildschirmfoto-2020-10-07-um-22-45-28-png.964017/

I'd like to report on my experience with my new MBP 16" 5600m. I'm only playing a video on Udemy and have pages open and my fans are very loud. I guess about 2800-3000 rpms (I have an MSI GS60 which is a bit louder than this so I have a base case to compare off.).

Edit: I found out elsewhere that this is iStat Menus by bjango: https://bjango.com/mac/istatmenus/

 

[Vinamra07]

Hello everyone, I have a 16" MacBook Pro base model running 10.15.7. Since yesterday when I turn on my Mac I am getting the Touch Bar in orange color, and once the device turns on it becomes white again. PFA the images for the same. Anyone any idea why is it happening?

 

[thedocbwarren]

have to admit I find this hard to believe with these systems:

"Both displays in 3008x1692 (HiDPi, 60hz) resolution, Radeon High Side draws ~ 7.5 Watt"

It's on 4k displays but that's not the right resolution for them so I'm not so sure that's right.

I tried 2 x 1080p@60hz and 2 x 1440p@60hz. Yes, same monitors Dell U2717D, same settings, same connection (DP, MBP, HDMI, tried them all) in clamshell, always 18-19W.

This guy tried 2 x 3008x1692 with the 7W result:

 

[dwamk]

It seems the 13" 2020 have the same issue, if that's the case I woukd say it is about the GPU drivers. Someone reported here that on windows10 on bootcamp they do not have any issues and the draw piwer of the GPU was ~7w - this is on 16".

 

[antipodean]

It seems the 13" 2020 have the same issue, if that's the case I woukd say it is about the GPU drivers. Someone reported here that on windows10 on bootcamp they do not have any issues and the draw piwer of the GPU was ~7w - this is on 16".

What makes you think the 13” has the same problem? I have the 13” 2020 (i7/32Gb/1TB) and no noisy fans or overheating when running 4K external at HiDPI “looks like” 2560x1440 with internal active at native resolution.
With only an iGPU the situation would be quite different from the 16” MBP.
Of course you may want more GPU power then the 13” iGPU provides. Indeed I have an eGPU myself, but I would say that is an optional extra. The iGPU can run a 4K display adequately, if not spectacularly.

 

[dwamk]

I watched couple of yt videos, on one of the videos the guy was just watching a youtube and the temp was up to 80c.

 

[IceStormNG]

I watched couple of yt videos, on one of the videos the guy was just watching a youtube and the temp was up to 80c.

If it was a YouTube video in anything higher than 1080p, then this is normal. Everything beyond 1080p is VP9 encoded and macOS has no hardware decoder for that (except for Big Sur using Safari). So if his machine was software decoding a 4K VP9 video, then 80°C would also happen without external monitor. "YouTube video" is not a great benchmark. Too many variables.

It seems the 13" 2020 have the same issue, if that's the case I woukd say it is about the GPU drivers. Someone reported here that on windows10 on bootcamp they do not have any issues and the draw piwer of the GPU was ~7w - this is on 16".

Right. There are some Adrenalin Drivers (not the ones supplied by Apple) where this issue is fixed. So on macOS it would need Apple to update the drivers (if AMD also fixed that on their macOS drivers they supply to Apple).

 

[dingobiatch]

I don’t understand how Apple can say this is expected behavior. Higher resolution shouldn’t not cause far LESS heat. In my own testing, a 2560x1050 screen was 20w, whereas a 4k screen was 5w. Same connections.

 

[IceStormNG]

It's NOT purely about the resolution. It's about using (multiple) monitors with certain refresh rates. Just because a monitor is sold at 60Hz, it doesn't mean it runs at exactly 60Hz. Some run at 59.94Hz or something like this. This refresh rate mismatch causes the GPU to run its VRAM on full clock speed. Because GDDR6 is extremely power hungry, it will cause the problem we have now.

This is expected behavior of the AMD GPU as it was designed to do this by AMD. It's not purely Apple's fault, but they're not innocent either (they choose this GPU after all and thought that this is fine).
Allmost all AMD GPUs do that to some extend. The 5600M uses HBM2 memory which is extremely power efficient, so this behavior is not an issue there.

 

[dingobiatch]

It's NOT purely about the resolution. It's about using (multiple) monitors with certain refresh rates. Just because a monitor is sold at 60Hz, it doesn't mean it runs at exactly 60Hz. Some run at 59.94Hz or something like this. This refresh rate mismatch causes the GPU to run its VRAM on full clock speed. Because GDDR6 is extremely power hungry, it will cause the problem we have now.

This is expected behavior of the AMD GPU as it was designed to do this by AMD. It's not purely Apple's fault, but they're not innocent either (they choose this GPU after all and thought that this is fine).
Allmost all AMD GPUs do that to some extend. The 5600M uses HBM2 memory which is extremely power efficient, so this behavior is not an issue there.

But I’m talking about in clamshell mode, could it still be a refresh rate issue?

 

[IceStormNG]

But I’m talking about in clamshell mode, could it still be a refresh rate issue?

Yupp. Certain refresh rates (I think everything that's not exactly 60Hz) will trigger this. But I'm not 100% sure. Most fixes I've seen were based on SwitchResX forcing the monitor to run at (exactly) 60Hz.

 

[Ramonitor]

I contacted Apple about this issue a few days ago and referred to the thread on the Apple Community site. I asked the Apple support people I got to speak about this issue and they all claimed this was not a known issue.

We did the basic troubleshooting steps like SMC reset, reinstall macOS etc but the issue (of course) is not fixed. The ticket is still open, going to call them back to discuss next steps within a few days.

 

[ght56]

I contacted Apple about this issue a few days ago and referred to the thread on the Apple Community site. I asked the Apple support people I got to speak about this issue and they all claimed this was not a known issue.

We did the basic troubleshooting steps like SMC reset, reinstall macOS etc but the issue (of course) is not fixed. The ticket is still open, going to call them back to discuss next steps within a few days.

Did you just or recently purchase a 16-inch? The person I spoke to acknowledged the issue but could not speak as to actions, if any, that are being taken (my guess is they simply did not know.)

 

[Ramonitor]

Did you just or recently purchase a 16-inch? The person I spoke to acknowledged the issue but could not speak as to actions, if any, that are being taken (my guess is they simply did not know.)

Unfortunately I bought it November 2019, and I thought Apple Care was not worth it. Guess that are two mistakes.

 

[ght56]

Unfortunately I bought it November 2019, and I thought Apple Care was not worth it. Guess that are two mistakes.

That's rough

Hopefully Apple can figure out something to make the situation a bit better. If not, maybe someone will come up with a workaround like they did with the dGPU fix for the 2011 MBP.

 

[Ramonitor]

They requested me to make a new time machine backup and call back. My previous backup was around two weeks old. I'l keep you posted about the findings, but I'm not keeping my hopes up.

 

[ght56]

They requested me to make a new time machine backup and call back. My previous backup was around two weeks old. I'l keep you posted about the findings, but I'm not keeping my hopes up.

If they don't come back with any other fix, it couldn't hurt to ask if they would let you pay to upgrade to a 5600M model. Given the time you have had the system, it's a big ask, but it couldn't hurt if all else goes nowhere?

 

[GumaRodak]

The only way apple will react or do something is when there will be risk for them to pay for suing

 

[jc_9]

have to admit I find this hard to believe with these systems:

"Both displays in 3008x1692 (HiDPi, 60hz) resolution, Radeon High Side draws ~ 7.5 Watt"

It's on 4k displays but that's not the right resolution for them so I'm not so sure that's right.

Ask the original guy! I have no hard time believing this since most people say using a single 4K in clamshell consumes 7.5W and when I try a single 1440p in clamshell always result in 18W consumption.

Yupp. Certain refresh rates (I think everything that's not exactly 60Hz) will trigger this. But I'm not 100% sure. Most fixes I've seen were based on SwitchResX forcing the monitor to run at (exactly) 60Hz.

In my case, using a Dell U2717D with DisplayPort or MiniDisplayPort uses 59.8hz refresh rate, but connecting it with HDMI uses 60hz. Always consumed 18W in clamshell in any case.

 

[dwamk]

2 videos showing that the 13" 2020 have the same issue:

 

[thedocbwarren]

Yes exactly this!

It's the work required to build the display that causes this. it ramps the speed up on the memory in the dGPU. This is what is causing the power draw and heat. It several circumstances the dGPU will need to ramp up. it's the way it works with the macOS rendered. If you consider that each monitor and each framerate has to be composited into a framebuffer and rendered then scaled or manipulated to display, it's not simple in out data.

It's NOT purely about the resolution. It's about using (multiple) monitors with certain refresh rates. Just because a monitor is sold at 60Hz, it doesn't mean it runs at exactly 60Hz. Some run at 59.94Hz or something like this. This refresh rate mismatch causes the GPU to run its VRAM on full clock speed. Because GDDR6 is extremely power hungry, it will cause the problem we have now.

This is expected behavior of the AMD GPU as it was designed to do this by AMD. It's not purely Apple's fault, but they're not innocent either (they choose this GPU after all and thought that this is fine).
Allmost all AMD GPUs do that to some extend. The 5600M uses HBM2 memory which is extremely power efficient, so this behavior is not an issue there.

 

[supaninjax]

Yupp. Certain refresh rates (I think everything that's not exactly 60Hz) will trigger this. But I'm not 100% sure. Most fixes I've seen were based on SwitchResX forcing the monitor to run at (exactly) 60Hz.

Can you post pics of the mod you did? I’m curious to try this but still not really sure what to do

 

[Ramonitor]

I just did force my LG 38wk95c 38 inch screen to be exactly 60hz instead of 59.something and I have the feeling it makes the fans a lot more quiet. Is it expected that the Radeon High Side sensor to still show a draw of around 20 watts in this case?

 

[GumaRodak]

Any idea how apple cinema 27” behaves? Iam considering one secondhand

 

[IceStormNG]

Can you post pics of the mod you did? I’m curious to try this but still not really sure what to do

I posted it already. Look at this post #4,097