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(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(
- Thread starter Appledoesnotlisten
- Start date
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When I first posted this post here it was largely ignored, but during festivities I got the chance to play around a bit more with my 16". I too tend to agree that it runs a little bit hotter than the 15", with really light workload in clamshell mode it is always on the verge of spinning up the fans.
By the way, referring to my post and original reddit post above about the 2017 15", I noticed that there actually is a difference in the 2019 16" in how the Thunderbolt chip heats up.
TL;DR: In my 2017 15" a Thunderbolt 3 dock/monitor made the Thunderbolt chip in the side I was plugged in heat up +20°C, while a USB-C dock didn't. So I returned my Thunderbolt dock and got a USB-C one. The 2019 16" seems to light up the Thunderbolt chip even with no Thunderbolt peripherals attached (just USB-C monitor).
Take a look at this screenshot, in which the Thunderbolt Right Proximity (which is the side I'm docked to) is constantly 20°C higher compared to the Left, a behaviour that didn't exist in my 15". Unfortunately I don't have my old MacBook anymore to test and compare where these watts are being consumed/accounted for, but what I remember is that as soon I sold my Thunderbolt external dock my problems were fixed in the 15", but either with USB-C docks something is lighting up in there and warming things up for no reason.
By the way, referring to my post and original reddit post above about the 2017 15", I noticed that there actually is a difference in the 2019 16" in how the Thunderbolt chip heats up.
TL;DR: In my 2017 15" a Thunderbolt 3 dock/monitor made the Thunderbolt chip in the side I was plugged in heat up +20°C, while a USB-C dock didn't. So I returned my Thunderbolt dock and got a USB-C one. The 2019 16" seems to light up the Thunderbolt chip even with no Thunderbolt peripherals attached (just USB-C monitor).
Take a look at this screenshot, in which the Thunderbolt Right Proximity (which is the side I'm docked to) is constantly 20°C higher compared to the Left, a behaviour that didn't exist in my 15". Unfortunately I don't have my old MacBook anymore to test and compare where these watts are being consumed/accounted for, but what I remember is that as soon I sold my Thunderbolt external dock my problems were fixed in the 15", but either with USB-C docks something is lighting up in there and warming things up for no reason.
Attachments
Just for a test... I connected every monitor i could find in my house to my base model 16"
Sitting here with Safari open and idling at 56-58 degrees. Can't hear any fans. Edges of the laptop where the ThunderBolt 3 ports are just slightly warm.
Monitors are:
LG 4K Ultrafine over USB-C
Acer 27" 2560x1440 USB-C to DisplayPort
Dell 25" 2560x1440 HDMI using Apple AV adapter
Acer 21" 1920x1080 HDMI using Apple AV adapter
I personally couldn't use this setup because any more than 2 external monitors is just way too distracting
But, the simple act of plugging extra monitors in really shouldn't stress your laptop out. It's what you have running, not whether you have 1, 2 or 4 monitors.
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Streamed ESPN, YouTube clips from Jumanji, Weather Channel video, Imgur homepage with a bunch of animation...
Heat kicked up to 85-88 degrees and the fans became audible
Sitting here with Safari open and idling at 56-58 degrees. Can't hear any fans. Edges of the laptop where the ThunderBolt 3 ports are just slightly warm.
Monitors are:
LG 4K Ultrafine over USB-C
Acer 27" 2560x1440 USB-C to DisplayPort
Dell 25" 2560x1440 HDMI using Apple AV adapter
Acer 21" 1920x1080 HDMI using Apple AV adapter
I personally couldn't use this setup because any more than 2 external monitors is just way too distracting
But, the simple act of plugging extra monitors in really shouldn't stress your laptop out. It's what you have running, not whether you have 1, 2 or 4 monitors.
[automerge]1578774489[/automerge]
Streamed ESPN, YouTube clips from Jumanji, Weather Channel video, Imgur homepage with a bunch of animation...
Heat kicked up to 85-88 degrees and the fans became audible
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The only issue I've had so far is my DisplayPort to USB-C cord wouldn't work with the new 16-inch MacBook. I had to insert it multiple times, and when it finally connects it reads this 27" monitor as a 30.5 and only displays 1080p resolution and lower. Not sure what's to blame, but I picked up this usb-c to hdmi cable last night and 4K 60Hz works fine again. Temps stay between 40-50 for web browsing and video, and I haven't heard the fans kick on yet.
Someone is gonna say (and with some reason) one gets a powerful laptop the heat is gotta go somewhere.
My opinion is somehow controversial, since I believe that someone who needs more power for creative work should stick with a desktop anyway and only use laptops for mobility and show results to clients, not heavy processing. That is my take, and I am not in any way bashing someone who thinks I am wrong.
As I mentioned previously, the issue is Apple sticking us who want bigger screens and vision is not going better (we all age anyway!), to swallow a powerful hot computer instead of building a “non-Pro” 15-16 machine.
As a result these posts happen. Apple advertised more thermal headroom for even more performance and most of us thought about a cooler/less hot computer. Apple did not said that, as a result I am the sole responsible person for taking such conclusion.
Is Apple listening to us? I don’t know. Someone mentioned the evolution of 13.3 to 14 and Phil said no way. Want bigger screen and dual monitor? Sweat your hands or use external keyboards!
I am a Mac user since 2008. I always struggled with the 13/15 problem. I am a researcher/teacher and constantly project contents in class with my laptop. I don’t need creative pro level power, but I want a laptop that can connect to a simple 1024x768 projetor without killing my battery life in half, and having sweat palms when using it for demos.
I read on other posts the idea of a 15 air. No thanks, 13air is just like using a 13”pro from 2015 in benchmarks.
Kuo mentioned a 15 in 2020. I hope he is right. The 2019 15 case with a 28w processor would fit my bill spot on. I don’t mind paying the same as for the 16, I value more the fit for purpose than internal components.
On a side note, I configured here in Portugal 3 machines with education discount with “similar specs”:
- i7 processor
- 16gb ram
- 512gb SSD
Here is what I got (prepare to be amazed...)
- 13 2 ports 2’457e
- 13 4 ports 2’730e
- 16 base model 2’519e
surprised? Well, I certainly am because I would expect a larger price difference from 13 to 16, and especially because the 13 is even pricier than 16!!!
So the idea of getting a lower spec iGPU machine for price sake is busted.
I really hope Apple launches a 15/16 with iGPU 28W processor 10th gen Ice Lake around 2000euros. I (and I suspected some of you too) will be ordering one!
thank you all for reading.
My opinion is somehow controversial, since I believe that someone who needs more power for creative work should stick with a desktop anyway and only use laptops for mobility and show results to clients, not heavy processing. That is my take, and I am not in any way bashing someone who thinks I am wrong.
As I mentioned previously, the issue is Apple sticking us who want bigger screens and vision is not going better (we all age anyway!), to swallow a powerful hot computer instead of building a “non-Pro” 15-16 machine.
As a result these posts happen. Apple advertised more thermal headroom for even more performance and most of us thought about a cooler/less hot computer. Apple did not said that, as a result I am the sole responsible person for taking such conclusion.
Is Apple listening to us? I don’t know. Someone mentioned the evolution of 13.3 to 14 and Phil said no way. Want bigger screen and dual monitor? Sweat your hands or use external keyboards!
I am a Mac user since 2008. I always struggled with the 13/15 problem. I am a researcher/teacher and constantly project contents in class with my laptop. I don’t need creative pro level power, but I want a laptop that can connect to a simple 1024x768 projetor without killing my battery life in half, and having sweat palms when using it for demos.
I read on other posts the idea of a 15 air. No thanks, 13air is just like using a 13”pro from 2015 in benchmarks.
Kuo mentioned a 15 in 2020. I hope he is right. The 2019 15 case with a 28w processor would fit my bill spot on. I don’t mind paying the same as for the 16, I value more the fit for purpose than internal components.
On a side note, I configured here in Portugal 3 machines with education discount with “similar specs”:
- i7 processor
- 16gb ram
- 512gb SSD
Here is what I got (prepare to be amazed...)
- 13 2 ports 2’457e
- 13 4 ports 2’730e
- 16 base model 2’519e
surprised? Well, I certainly am because I would expect a larger price difference from 13 to 16, and especially because the 13 is even pricier than 16!!!
So the idea of getting a lower spec iGPU machine for price sake is busted.
I really hope Apple launches a 15/16 with iGPU 28W processor 10th gen Ice Lake around 2000euros. I (and I suspected some of you too) will be ordering one!
thank you all for reading.
Disagree.
1. You cannot predict all use cases - what is working for you won't be working for the others.
2. You are asking for low power laptop with bigger screen. Maybe you'll get few degrees lower temp but also lower flexibility. When I use my MBP16 lightly I never have high temps. Keep it on my lap and the machine is cool - very power efficient with inaudible fans. When I need power I connect to charger and use it at my desk. This gives me flexibility you won't have with low power option.
Yes I am. Windows laptops exist. I also do not get high temps without external monitor, but that is not the context of this thread. We are referring to temps when using external monitor. AMD GPU is powerful but takes away at least 17W of power. If one wants more graphic power one can use eGPU. So I understand your point of view, but I clearly disagree.
I feel your frustration, I think the same way.
I ordered a base Core i9 model in early December and returned it because of the huge fan noise.
Some days ago I ordered another Core i9 in hopes that the problems are resolved, but sadly they are not.
I am using the laptop 90% of the time connected to a 4K monitor and also move it around in my house and work in another room or watch a film with my wife, etc. I am also using it in clamshell mode when connected to the 4K monitor because when I leave the laptop open when docked, the fan noise gets even worse.
This is a powerful, well made device. But the fan noise is killing me. Apple never claimed that the new machines are silent, but they neither really informed that they are that loud. That was my own conclusion after reading about the improved cooling system.
Of course I am well aware and ok that the fans ramp up when the CPU load ramps up, no problems with that. I used a MacBook Pro 2016 15" before that and the machine was dead silent most of the time. It never got annoying.
I do primarily software development using IntelliJ IDEA with the machine and some Visual Studio development für Windows 10 in a Parallels VM and I use docker.
This work in IntelliJ IDEA is very burst oriented, the CPU is not used at full tilt the whole time while developing but only when typing/refactoring code, building projects, etc. for shorter periods of time. By using iStats Menus I can see that, that is working fine and the Core i9 is very powerful! When I run long build jobs or am doing lots of database stuff and the CPU is maxed out then I completely understand that the fans get loud, that's what they are there for.
But the fans ramp up a lot even when there is nothing much going on when connected to my 4K external monitor. At the moment I am writing this post and the Epic Games Launcher is downloading a game in the background, Apple mail and Calendar are open. Total CPU load is about 12%, CPU 3 to 3,3 GHz. The fans are at 5200/4900, CPU temperature at 77 degrees celsius and the laptop is making lots of noise, I don't get this. I talked to an Apple support three days before, we made an SMC reset but the fan is still very loud.
I will send it back tomorrow and go for the base model Core i7 model in hopes that it is more silent. I think I can get by with 6 cores the next two to three years.
I ordered a base Core i9 model in early December and returned it because of the huge fan noise.
Some days ago I ordered another Core i9 in hopes that the problems are resolved, but sadly they are not.
I am using the laptop 90% of the time connected to a 4K monitor and also move it around in my house and work in another room or watch a film with my wife, etc. I am also using it in clamshell mode when connected to the 4K monitor because when I leave the laptop open when docked, the fan noise gets even worse.
This is a powerful, well made device. But the fan noise is killing me. Apple never claimed that the new machines are silent, but they neither really informed that they are that loud. That was my own conclusion after reading about the improved cooling system.
Of course I am well aware and ok that the fans ramp up when the CPU load ramps up, no problems with that. I used a MacBook Pro 2016 15" before that and the machine was dead silent most of the time. It never got annoying.
I do primarily software development using IntelliJ IDEA with the machine and some Visual Studio development für Windows 10 in a Parallels VM and I use docker.
This work in IntelliJ IDEA is very burst oriented, the CPU is not used at full tilt the whole time while developing but only when typing/refactoring code, building projects, etc. for shorter periods of time. By using iStats Menus I can see that, that is working fine and the Core i9 is very powerful! When I run long build jobs or am doing lots of database stuff and the CPU is maxed out then I completely understand that the fans get loud, that's what they are there for.
But the fans ramp up a lot even when there is nothing much going on when connected to my 4K external monitor. At the moment I am writing this post and the Epic Games Launcher is downloading a game in the background, Apple mail and Calendar are open. Total CPU load is about 12%, CPU 3 to 3,3 GHz. The fans are at 5200/4900, CPU temperature at 77 degrees celsius and the laptop is making lots of noise, I don't get this. I talked to an Apple support three days before, we made an SMC reset but the fan is still very loud.
I will send it back tomorrow and go for the base model Core i7 model in hopes that it is more silent. I think I can get by with 6 cores the next two to three years.
Sorry to inform you, but base model is basically the same song like i9, it's actually not about the CPU, but the GPU. Connecting an external monitor causes it to take an excessive amount of power which yields heat which then obviously needs to be taken out of the internals via fans.
Machine is awesome - without external display and when web browsing, I'm at 30C/35C (CPU/GPU) right now, connect the display and immediately you are at 50C+/60C+ when web browsing. Not to mention adding some intensive work - it gets loud pretty quickly.
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It seems certain configurations cause this issue more than others. However, right now there does not seem to be an easy way to predict.
At work we have 80" 4K TVs from Samsung for presentations. I tried connecting my laptop using a USB-C to HDMI adapter to these screens and was not able to reproduce the heat issue. I even watched a 4K movie on one of these screens from Apple TV+ for testing. So this configuration is efficient.
At home I don't have any 4K screens but connecting two HD monitors and the built in display runs cool. Using USB-C to DVI at home. I don't own a dock.
At work we have 80" 4K TVs from Samsung for presentations. I tried connecting my laptop using a USB-C to HDMI adapter to these screens and was not able to reproduce the heat issue. I even watched a 4K movie on one of these screens from Apple TV+ for testing. So this configuration is efficient.
At home I don't have any 4K screens but connecting two HD monitors and the built in display runs cool. Using USB-C to DVI at home. I don't own a dock.
CPU being at 3.3GHz, and 12% CPU on an 8 core machine usually means that you have a core maxed out. So it's getting probably 25 watts of power. Your GPU is also probably turned on. Take a look at the Energy panel not the CPU panel, that gives you a better idea of what you're actually using, power-wise.
If your CPU was drawing low power it would be clocked down to like 1.0GHz.
Taking it back for an i7 model is just going to make it work harder to do the same result. The i9 isn't really any worse, power wise, unless you are running it full-tilt.
I am using MBP16 with external 4k for hours without fans ramping-up. You can scroll couple pages back and see my posts in this thread with details. Watching YouTube, browsing web, simple sheet in numbers - my temps are around 40-50 dec C and my fans are at min.
It is NEITHER NOISY NOR HOT when connected to external monitor - that is my experience at least.
When I start working in FCP or play games it's a different story but nobody expects silent machine under load.
Having said that I partially agree with your statement - some people should really invest in desktop machine. When I see comments like: "I am using the laptop 90% of the time connected to a 4K monitor" I really don't understand it - why to spend additional $ if your use case is desktop mode.
How do you connect it to external monitor?
Could you please post a link of the cable and/or dock?
As I wrote I use it 90% of the time docked which means that I use it mobile in the rest 10%.
Why should I buy two computers, a desktop machine and a laptop, which is more expensive and more cumbersome because I have to sync my files and everything? The problem is not my use case which is a valid one, I know a lot of colleagues who do it the same way. But that Apple somehow produced a MacBook Pro that gets crazy loud under small load (connected to a 4K monitor) which it shouldn't. The Apple supporter at the support call I made told me that the machine should be whisper quiet. In the support session we made the machine got up to 90 degrees Celsius after rebooting it and the fans went full tilt while he was on the phone, so he could hear the fans by himself.
As I stated my MacBook Pro 2016 15" had none of this issues and did exactly what I needed from it and mostly very quietly.
Greetings Janni
I'm glad you guys are reporting this directly to Apple so that they can reproduce this in their lab and debug the GPU driver.
Appreciate the post, however I use the MacBook 90% of the time with external display connected mainly because I'm travelling a lot and it's not always that easy to keep everything in sync workspace wise. That being said, Macbook Pro 15" 2017 handled the workload I have on daily basis without as much loud as the 16" is.
Connecting a display should not be considered a workload and seeing that GPU goes from 6W on internal display to 20W with external display (which can even be lower resolution than the internal one) is a simple fact that something is wrong.
If I put 2 years older machine (Pro 15'' 2017) next to the 16'' and do the same work I'm expecting the newer machine to be at least the same temperature or lower (not 20 degree Celsius higher than the older one) under same workloads using same peripherals.
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Has anybody tried SideCar with iPad or another tablet? Does it heat as much as with an external monitor?
I tried different solutions besides using the laptop only in clamshell mode when connected to my 4K monitor.
Nothing helped to alleviate this. I am also sad that I have to use clamshell mode to prevent the fans from going really nuts. I would be happy to being able to use the quite big 16" MacBook Pro display as my secondary screen besides my monitor which I sadly can't at the moment.
I will talk to Apple tomorrow and tell them my problems a second time and either try a new core i9 base model or switch to a core i7 base model maybe I am lucky. No one can tell for sure with internal knowledge which machines are fine. Maybe this is by design? Two apple supporters I talked to (one in december and the other one last week) told me that the machine should not behave that way when connected to a dock or directly to a monitor. Both could hear the fans when I talked to them.
I do not need GPU power, I have a dedicated gaming PC for gaming, the AMD GPUS are nice to have but not necessary for me. What I need is a 15" laptop with a good cpu and Mac OS.
When my next 16" model is presenting the same problems, I would rather wait for a coming 13/14 inch model which probably will use intel graphics and at least 6 cores.
Studio made a comparison of the fans between the core i7 and the core i9 and the ones on the core i7 were more silent regarding this video:
and here:
So maybe the AMD 5300 is generating less heat? Another idea was to take a core i7 with the 5300M and upgrade it to a core i9.
Best regards, Janni
- I connected the laptop directly to the 4K monitor via a USB-C to USB-C cable or a USB-C to HDMI cable and used the apple charger.
- I connected the laptop to my cal digit TS3+ thunderbolt 3 dock and then to the 4K monitor via a USB-C to HDMi cable or a Displayport to Displayport cable.
Nothing helped to alleviate this. I am also sad that I have to use clamshell mode to prevent the fans from going really nuts. I would be happy to being able to use the quite big 16" MacBook Pro display as my secondary screen besides my monitor which I sadly can't at the moment.
I will talk to Apple tomorrow and tell them my problems a second time and either try a new core i9 base model or switch to a core i7 base model maybe I am lucky. No one can tell for sure with internal knowledge which machines are fine. Maybe this is by design? Two apple supporters I talked to (one in december and the other one last week) told me that the machine should not behave that way when connected to a dock or directly to a monitor. Both could hear the fans when I talked to them.
I do not need GPU power, I have a dedicated gaming PC for gaming, the AMD GPUS are nice to have but not necessary for me. What I need is a 15" laptop with a good cpu and Mac OS.
When my next 16" model is presenting the same problems, I would rather wait for a coming 13/14 inch model which probably will use intel graphics and at least 6 cores.
Studio made a comparison of the fans between the core i7 and the core i9 and the ones on the core i7 were more silent regarding this video:
So maybe the AMD 5300 is generating less heat? Another idea was to take a core i7 with the 5300M and upgrade it to a core i9.
Best regards, Janni
Too bad they won't come out with an integrated graphics 16" like they used to do with the 15".
they could leave the Touch Bar off as well and sell it for 1899
they could leave the Touch Bar off as well and sell it for 1899
Maybe they sometime will (fingers crossed on that one!). As for the TB, I don't think so. They even put it on the base 13" pro...
I'm using apple AV dongle and connect using HDMI.
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You are correct - I shouldn't generalise. 10% mobile is still valid use case for MBP.
Each of us decides what's working best - I agree laptop gives lots of flexibility.
Greetings
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Maybe it's new GPU, maybe Catalina drivers, maybe both - I don't know ..
I agree - with the same work it shouldn't be much hotter.
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Yeah looks absolutely confusing on why this happens as soon you connect an external display. I mean it doesn't make any sense for it to increase 20c.
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I own the base model and this problem still persists for me, it's terrible.
Looks like these Intel CPUs and AMD GPUs are just consuming too much power. Apple should at least use NVIDIA chips in their laptops not AMDs.
What's also annyoing: MBP has only TB3 ports and a lot of the connectors seem to cause problems or higher power consumption. I still don't see the advantage of 4 TB3 connectors on a single laptop. It would be way better to have USB, HDMI and SD-Cards readers on one of the sides as they had a few years ago.
What's also annyoing: MBP has only TB3 ports and a lot of the connectors seem to cause problems or higher power consumption. I still don't see the advantage of 4 TB3 connectors on a single laptop. It would be way better to have USB, HDMI and SD-Cards readers on one of the sides as they had a few years ago.