Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(
- Thread starter Appledoesnotlisten
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I’m getting MBP 15" 2010 flashbacks. That thing sounded like an Airbus and could make pancakes in a minute.
Hi all I couldn't go through the 200 pages but low power mode doesn't complete solve the problem for me. My setup: 16 inch MBP with core I7, 5300m Radeon, and 32 gb of ram. I'd like to still use the laptop monitor and connect an LG 5k ultra fine and a Lenovo 4k (through a TB3 to DP cable).
I'm still getting intermittent runs of loud fans, from what I see on GPU monitor pro (and while enabling lower power mode and automatic graphics switching), the laptop is using the radeon exclusively without using any of the intel integrated chip. When connecting a single external monitor and keep the laptop screen, it uses the intel chip a bit more and it's more quiet.
If I shut down the laptop screen it's a bit more quiet but still runs the fan a bit louder than ideal.
If I change the scaling options to default on all monitors, I don't see a significant difference
Should I give up and accept this as a terrible 3k purchase?
The fans are running around 3500 rpm almost continuously.
I'm still getting intermittent runs of loud fans, from what I see on GPU monitor pro (and while enabling lower power mode and automatic graphics switching), the laptop is using the radeon exclusively without using any of the intel integrated chip. When connecting a single external monitor and keep the laptop screen, it uses the intel chip a bit more and it's more quiet.
If I shut down the laptop screen it's a bit more quiet but still runs the fan a bit louder than ideal.
If I change the scaling options to default on all monitors, I don't see a significant difference
Should I give up and accept this as a terrible 3k purchase?
The fans are running around 3500 rpm almost continuously.
I upgraded to Monterey yesterday on my i9 / 5500m. Had to set my monitors to 60Hz refresh rate, but Low Power Mode is helping. and getting Radeon High Side in the 6W - 10W range with two external monitors and laptop lid open. I do mostly Java dev on this laptop, and doing full builds of software I develop is about 30% slower. I'm happy to have a workaround and I can do my work fine with the 30% slowdown, but hope a solution that allows full CPU power emerges.
I do still see it sometimes hover around 18W while on LPM and go above that even, including when I'm on battery with LPM mode on, and I see in Activity Monitor that the AMD GPU is working. It does eventually come back down, and on battery switch to integrated and 0.1W. I wonder if iCloud Photos is doing some work processing photos with the GPU, maybe with machine learning or something along those lines.
I'll see how it goes in the coming work week. So far all apps I use for work appear to be working fine. This includes running a Windows 10 VM in a VMWare Fusion.
I do still see it sometimes hover around 18W while on LPM and go above that even, including when I'm on battery with LPM mode on, and I see in Activity Monitor that the AMD GPU is working. It does eventually come back down, and on battery switch to integrated and 0.1W. I wonder if iCloud Photos is doing some work processing photos with the GPU, maybe with machine learning or something along those lines.
I'll see how it goes in the coming work week. So far all apps I use for work appear to be working fine. This includes running a Windows 10 VM in a VMWare Fusion.
First check all monitor are 60hz.
Secondly download istat and monitor Radeon high side. Try to unplug different monitor to isolate which monitor cause high power.
Third use switchResX to tweak that monitor timing until you find the right setting
So I made sure all are 60 hz on system preferences and on switch resX. I'm getting ~5-10 watts with single monitor (either the 5k or 4k monitor), but the LG 5k is driving more watts than the 4k one. With my regular use the 5k display with the laptop monitor can go from the baseline of 5-10 watts to 20 and the fans eventually speed up.
If I use the laptop monitor with the 4k monitor it's more like 10-15 watts with regular use and the fans are tolerable.
if I use both external monitors it's 20 watts regardless of whether it's clamshell mode or not (or low power or not).
would there a power benefit from using a dock rather than connecting directly? (I have each monitor connected to each side of the laptop?) at this point I'm better of using my 13 inch 2016 with integrated graphics than then 16 inch "new" machine.
Is there a way to disable the radeon completely? or force the integrated intel chip to be used also?
The subject title needs to change to mention Intel because this issue is gone with Apple Silicon 
I'd still wanna know if the new m1 pro and max chips allow you to run 2-3 high res external monitors without heat/fans. has anyone tried? otherwise it'll be a Mac desktop or windows setup for me!The subject title needs to change to mention Intel because this issue is gone with Apple Silicon
You need to try different types of connectors as well as different monitor timings vis switchResX. You do want to have a timing that has enough blanking and as standard as possible. You need to experiment until you found the magic number that allow you to idle at 5-10w at LPM
I upgraded to Monterey about an hour ago, and my findings are interesting so far.
1. First the specs
- 2019 Macbook Pro 16 with Intel i9 and AMD Pro 5500M.
- 2 External LG Ultrafine TB displays.
2. Next, what I experience through my 30+ hours of troubleshooting with various software/hardware configurations, including replacing the motherboard and doing a few troubleshooting sessions with Apple Engineers.
- Macbook with no external display attached - All is well. No larger power drive ( Radeon, when used, was 6W or less ) .
1+ Exernal displays attached , regardless of clamshell being opened or closed, power draw around 18--20 Watt range. Overheat, fans on full, sometimes rebooted itselft.
3. My experience with Monterey
- No external displays attached - all is well just like before
- 1+ external displays attached + clamshell , low power mode on or off - 18Watt power draw. Fans ramp up, will probably overheat but I stopped it when fans reached 2500RPM.
- 1+ external displays attached + no clamshell( eg laptop open) , low power mode off - 18Watt power draw. Fans ramp up, will probably overheat but I stopped it when fans reached 2500RPM.
- 1+ external displays attached + no clamshell( eg laptop open) , low power mode on - All is well. About 6Watt power draw. Fans stay >2k rpm.
I assumed the Radeon 5500M laptop would use less power when in clamshell mode, not more, but I am seeing the opposite! So I'm running with low power mode on, laptop open , and 2 external displays attached. Radeon high side is 6W with no gpu intensive apps open. If I play a youtube video, Radeon High side increases to 10W.
That's all of the testing I've done so far. The results are weird, so I wonder if Apple will tune the driver more in future patches. I usually use my Macbook in clamshell mode with external mouse/keyboard/displays , so I don't like that the Macbook needs to be open, but it's progress.
Update: with just running youtube in the browser, the system overheats. So enabling low power mode hasn't fixed anything at all. I've gone back to my eGPU and all is right with the world.
1. First the specs
- 2019 Macbook Pro 16 with Intel i9 and AMD Pro 5500M.
- 2 External LG Ultrafine TB displays.
2. Next, what I experience through my 30+ hours of troubleshooting with various software/hardware configurations, including replacing the motherboard and doing a few troubleshooting sessions with Apple Engineers.
- Macbook with no external display attached - All is well. No larger power drive ( Radeon, when used, was 6W or less ) .
1+ Exernal displays attached , regardless of clamshell being opened or closed, power draw around 18--20 Watt range. Overheat, fans on full, sometimes rebooted itselft.
3. My experience with Monterey
- No external displays attached - all is well just like before
- 1+ external displays attached + clamshell , low power mode on or off - 18Watt power draw. Fans ramp up, will probably overheat but I stopped it when fans reached 2500RPM.
- 1+ external displays attached + no clamshell( eg laptop open) , low power mode off - 18Watt power draw. Fans ramp up, will probably overheat but I stopped it when fans reached 2500RPM.
- 1+ external displays attached + no clamshell( eg laptop open) , low power mode on - All is well. About 6Watt power draw. Fans stay >2k rpm.
I assumed the Radeon 5500M laptop would use less power when in clamshell mode, not more, but I am seeing the opposite! So I'm running with low power mode on, laptop open , and 2 external displays attached. Radeon high side is 6W with no gpu intensive apps open. If I play a youtube video, Radeon High side increases to 10W.
That's all of the testing I've done so far. The results are weird, so I wonder if Apple will tune the driver more in future patches. I usually use my Macbook in clamshell mode with external mouse/keyboard/displays , so I don't like that the Macbook needs to be open, but it's progress.
Update: with just running youtube in the browser, the system overheats. So enabling low power mode hasn't fixed anything at all. I've gone back to my eGPU and all is right with the world.
Last edited:
I am aware MacOs Monterey 12.1 beta add supports to AMD Radeon 6600XT.
So it means potentially a driver update, which may or may not benefit Radeon 5000 series
Finger crossed.
For me, LPM does make my day to day work a bit less responsive.
What's worse is because LPM does bring the Radeon High Side lower, the fan stays at lower speed. It does makes the laptop a bit more silent but it keep it running at higher temp overall (especially the batteries).
Therefore, after some back and forth tests, I would still keep the LPM off.
Found one thing during the test though, not exactly sure if this is after Monterey or not. Keep the refresh rate at 60 Hz does make the Radeon High Side lower for 3 to 5W. I'm sure I set it up on Big Sur too, but looking back the power draw 30 days ago, it hovers ~17 to 20. Now it hovers around 14.x to 19.x.
However, the default refresh rate for my external monitor (DELL S2721QS) is "variable". If I forgot to change that, it works as before. So I have to check the refresh rate from time to time. macOS doesn't seem to remember my setting in some scenarios (e.g. from clamshell to non-clamshell, it always switch back to "variable"). Any ways to force it to stay @60 Hz? Tried SwtichResX, not sure if it's me or what, can't find a way to "force" it to stay at 60 Hz.
In short, in my use case, setting monitors @60Hz are and keep LPM off is the best balance for me. Machine still respond normally and it's not tooo noisy (it's easier to get the fan going, good and bad). Remember to check the refresh rate from time to time.
What's worse is because LPM does bring the Radeon High Side lower, the fan stays at lower speed. It does makes the laptop a bit more silent but it keep it running at higher temp overall (especially the batteries).
Therefore, after some back and forth tests, I would still keep the LPM off.
Found one thing during the test though, not exactly sure if this is after Monterey or not. Keep the refresh rate at 60 Hz does make the Radeon High Side lower for 3 to 5W. I'm sure I set it up on Big Sur too, but looking back the power draw 30 days ago, it hovers ~17 to 20. Now it hovers around 14.x to 19.x.
However, the default refresh rate for my external monitor (DELL S2721QS) is "variable". If I forgot to change that, it works as before. So I have to check the refresh rate from time to time. macOS doesn't seem to remember my setting in some scenarios (e.g. from clamshell to non-clamshell, it always switch back to "variable"). Any ways to force it to stay @60 Hz? Tried SwtichResX, not sure if it's me or what, can't find a way to "force" it to stay at 60 Hz.
In short, in my use case, setting monitors @60Hz are and keep LPM off is the best balance for me. Machine still respond normally and it's not tooo noisy (it's easier to get the fan going, good and bad). Remember to check the refresh rate from time to time.
That's weird. My machine runs a good 10C cooler in LPM and yes, I also still notice the performance decrease.
?
Has anyone looked at creating dummy/software/virtual displays and then mirroring to actual external display? For example, using something like this: https://github.com/waydabber/BetterDummy
If you have, please share your experience with us. Thank you!
P.S.
"BetterDummy" above claims to do the following:
Has anyone looked at creating dummy/software/virtual displays and then mirroring to actual external display? For example, using something like this: https://github.com/waydabber/BetterDummy
If you have, please share your experience with us. Thank you!
P.S.
"BetterDummy" above claims to do the following:
- Offers a much wider variety of HiDPI and standard resolutions.
- Works with all aspect ratios, does not depend on what resoluations are recorded in the dummy's EDID/firmware.
- Does not utilize graphics hardware in vain so it is somewhat faster.
I tried right now and it's the same. 15w when connected to external monitors?
Has anyone looked at creating dummy/software/virtual displays and then mirroring to actual external display? For example, using something like this: https://github.com/waydabber/BetterDummy
If you have, please share your experience with us. Thank you!
P.S.
"BetterDummy" above claims to do the following:
- Offers a much wider variety of HiDPI and standard resolutions.
- Works with all aspect ratios, does not depend on what resoluations are recorded in the dummy's EDID/firmware.
- Does not utilize graphics hardware in vain so it is somewhat faster.
Great thread. Not to be too esoteric, but has anyone tried the new MBP 14" in clamshell with an external monitor. My intel-based 2019 MBP is still good, but fans out like a madman with a monitor in clamshell and is otherwise feeling a little sluggish compared to all the zippiness I'm hearing in the M community.
My 2 cents goes to: Finding out which commands run when low power mode is selected. If there are 2 separate commands try to run only the one that puts the high side of radeon at 5w.
no luck the lowpowermode is triggered by a var in pmset and the system detect that the var changes and apply to cpu and gpu.
Code:
default 18:35:30.709206+0000 kernel [AGPM][INFO ][POWERMODE ][setPowerMode ] Current GPU GFX0 power mode =0no luck the lowpowermode is triggered by a var in pmset and the system detect that the var changes and apply to cpu and gpu.
Last edited:
Could you elaborate? How exactly would you do that? Is this working a working command or pseudo-code?
I was thinking as hypothesis when you click the checkbox to enable/disable low power mode was calling several functions directly, one of which was for the GPU. But this is not what happens, what the system is doing is only changing a flag from true to false. When this happens an event is sent and all the functions associated with this event are executed. So in theory we can only change the flag and nothing else, changing the flag is easy ("sudo pmset -a lowpowermode 1") but what we really want is to know what instructions are set after this.
EDIT:
After a little dig i found where the magic happens: /System/Library/Extensions/AppleGraphicsPowerManagement.kext/Contents/MacOS/AppleGraphicsPowerManagement
Here we can found multiple references to the lowpowermode changes:
- ZN9IOService16allowPowerChangeEm
- Current GPU %s power mode =%u
- Successfully applied power mode %u for GPU %s.
- setPowerModePower Modes currently not supported for IGPUs.
Maybe the guys from hackintosh know more about this, because they edit this kext in the past, or maybe julian-poidevin can help, with is back experience in fixing mbpro 2010 graphic issues.
I'm just a Software Engineer and i don't have any experience editing this. But i can help
EDIT2: I reverse engineered the AppleGraphicsPowerManagement binary just to be sure this is the right file, and yes it is. As you can see the binary have a setPowerMode function wich it receives a long in this case i think it's 0 or 1(long representation of bool)
Last edited:
I'm starting to realize that part of the problem with overheating may be my home office?! I have the exact same external monitors both at home and at work. When connecting the MBP to those at home (LG 5k and lenovo 4k), the fans ramp up quite quickly. If I use the laptop at work connected to the same type of monitors with the same connections, the fans and watts don't go up as quickly (they still do eventually).
I hate to ask, could it really be the ambient temperature that's worsening this asides from MBP known issue? that's about the only difference between here and at the office, asides from a slower internet connection at home.
I took the windows laptop home today and i think i'm seeing the same thing, it heats up much quicker. should I really have to turn down the AC at home now?!
I hate to ask, could it really be the ambient temperature that's worsening this asides from MBP known issue? that's about the only difference between here and at the office, asides from a slower internet connection at home.
I took the windows laptop home today and i think i'm seeing the same thing, it heats up much quicker. should I really have to turn down the AC at home now?!
You have restored my hope and faith. I'm sure one day I'll wake up with a solution that stop overfeeding the GPU but not starving the CPU.
But now it's the hard part, how can we call a non public function in a executable file?
Sadly i don't know how to do it or if we can do it. The code it's there but it's not reachable.
What other guys had done for a different problem was editing the plist file, but for our mac we don't have many options there.
You can check by yourself:
- Go to: /System/Library/Extensions/AppleGraphicsPowerManagement.kext
- Right Click -> Show Package contents
- Double Click in the Info.plist
- open terminal to find your macbook boardId (type in terminal: ioreg -l | grep -i board-id)
- Search in the plist for the boardId(ex:Mac-E1008331FDC96864)
- And see the options inside the GFX0 tab (GFX0 == Radeon and IGPU = Integrated Graphics)
PS: Don't make any changes on the file or save it if you don't know what are you doing
I have replaced my 15” i9 mbp with a new 16” pro max and can now my use 3 LG ultrafine 4K monitors with no fan noise whatsoever. Before had constant fan noise with the Intel MacBook Pro. I have just purchased a Huawei MATEVIEW 4K as a fourth monitor (as the Ultrafines are no longer available in the UK) and have been able to connect via HDMI and also via its USB-C port to the third thunderbolt port on the on the M1 Pro Max without any fan noise The experience is night and day different to the older intel model. I also purchased a 14” M1 Pro (not max) as wasn’t sure which size I wanted but can confirm the that it will only run two screens whatever resolution they are. Can’t use a third screen natively via the HDMI port if two thunderbolt displays are connected.
Thanks. Have you noticed any fan noise at all with the 14 inch M1 pro
? With the laptop lid open?
No but I’m not doing any graphics or video work. I am using LogMeIn a lot which was always sluggish on intel macs and used to make the fans go mad and it is now super smooth, even though it is using Rosetta2 and silent on both the 14” M1 pro and 16” M1 max