(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[firetrap]

Been using my new M1 Max for 1.5 weeks now, after dumping my 16" i9, 5500m. WHAT a difference. A silent machine. Been waiting for this moment for so long...

But do you needed to change if everything was working as expected with your 16 i9? I dont think so.
This is what they want. At least fill the feature request for the rest of us and help avoiding unnecessary electronic waste

 

[WilliamG]

But do you needed to change if everything was working as expected with your 16 i9? I dont think so.
This is what they want. At least fill the feature request for the rest of us and help avoiding unnecessary electronic waste

I couldn’t stand the heat and noise with two displays. It was just ridiculous. Enough was enough.

 

[Hollycene]

But do you needed to change if everything was working as expected with your 16 i9? I dont think so. This is what they want.

As I mentioned earlier, buying a new device due to Apples poor engineering with GPUs is another win situation for Apple. What will be next? M1 Swap memory issue? Short SSD lifetime? Any other hidden problems? Then I need to buy new device again after 1 or 2 years? With new devices come new issues. I don't want to give Apple any more money. I bought 4.5k$ laptop 2 years ago, I don't need new Mac, but I need to my current Mac working as expected / advertised. That's all I want. At least Monterey kinda fixed the problem and I can silently work on 3 monitors simultaneously. After 2 yeas tho. ✌️

 

[Minga089]

At least fill the feature request for the rest of us and help avoiding unnecessary electronic waste

Sorry, but Apple is not going to change the LPM for the 16" Intel MBP. The current LPM is as good as it's going to get. Intel Macs are the past for Apple and they want you to upgrade. That's why they unnecessarily also limited the CPU power with LPM although they didn't had to (especially not with the i7). We can only hope for workaround, that's it.

Why? Because Apple doesn't need to fix it. There are too many people out there who reward Apple for their design flaw by upgrading to next big thing. They even take a huge loss and use Apple's own trade in program which is nothing but a huge scam. So in the end it's a win-win situation for Apple.

 

[firetrap]

Sorry, but Apple is not going to change the LPM for the 16" Intel MBP. The current LPM is as good as it's going to get. Intel Macs are the past for Apple and they want you to upgrade. That's why they unnecessarily also limited the CPU power with LPM although they didn't had to (especially not with the i7). We can only hope for workaround, that's it.

Why? Because Apple doesn't need to fix it. There are too many people out there who reward Apple for their design flaw by upgrading to next big thing. They even take a huge loss and use Apple's own trade in program which is nothing but a huge scam. So in the end it's a win-win situation for Apple.

Can any of you guys had a screenshot of the high radeon power usage on the first version of BigSur? I'm asking this because i still think this only started to happen after a few updates and we need prove. Or with USA companies they don't give a ****? If we can get a good number of petitions on change.org maybe the media will help.

 

[jagooch]

I have replaced my 15” i9 mbp with a new 16” pro max and can now my use 3 LG ultrafine 4K monitors with no fan noise whatsoever. Before had constant fan noise with the Intel MacBook Pro. I have just purchased a Huawei MATEVIEW 4K as a fourth monitor (as the Ultrafines are no longer available in the UK) and have been able to connect via HDMI and also via its USB-C port to the third thunderbolt port on the on the M1 Pro Max without any fan noise The experience is night and day different to the older intel model. I also purchased a 14” M1 Pro (not max) as wasn’t sure which size I wanted but can confirm the that it will only run two screens whatever resolution they are. Can’t use a third screen natively via the HDMI port if two thunderbolt displays are connected.

This is good to know, though I'm not sure I'm ready to buy another Mac after having bought the 16" and Mac Mini last year. I usually get around 30-40% of the MSRP when I sell it on Craigslist, and even less ( 15%?) when I trade it in.

Plus my work 16" Macbook Pro has the 5300M chip and also overheats, so I'd still have to use the eGPU with that system.

- Additional details - I work from home and switch from the work ( corporate owned ) laptop and person laptop by plugging/unplugging the thunderbolt cable from my caldigit dock. The only change I make is either the dock plugs into the eGPU( razor x ) or directly into the LG Ultrafine display. That makes it really easy to switch between Macbooks.

It would be great if Apple just fixed this, then I could update both Macbooks and ditch the eGPU solution, which has it's own issues.

 

[Yurk]

Been using my new M1 Max for 1.5 weeks now, after dumping my 16" i9, 5500m. WHAT a difference. A silent machine. Been waiting for this moment for so long...

And you only had to sacrifice Windows Bootcamp, eGPU and Nvidia CUDA capabilities.

Not to mention that matrix multiplication and similar scientific compute tasks are twice as fast in the old Intel i9 mac (14 nm) compared to the new M1 Pro / Max (5 nm). Wolfram Mathematica benchmarks give a score of 2.5 on the M1 and 3.5 on the old intel i9. But you won't see this mentioned by youtubers. They just do video editing benchmarks.

 

[project_2501]

And you only had to sacrifice Windows Bootcamp, eGPU and Nvidia CUDA capabilities.

Not to mention that matrix multiplication and similar scientific compute tasks are twice as fast in the old Intel i9 mac (14 nm) compared to the new M1 Pro / Max (5 nm). Wolfram Mathematica benchmarks give a score of 2.5 on the M1 and 3.5 on the old intel i9. But you won't see this mentioned by youtubers. They just do video editing benchmarks.

where can I find out more about maths benchmarks?

I know Intel pushed hard to help maths libraries exploit their CPUs ..

 

[mo5214]

Can any of you guys had a screenshot of the high radeon power usage on the first version of BigSur? I'm asking this because i still think this only started to happen after a few updates and we need prove. It's a good effort trying something in change.org? Or with USA companies they don't give a ****? If we can get a good number of petitions on change.org maybe the media will help.

Nah, High side had always been 18W since Catalina on my experimental 5500M 16” (and no change in Momterey)

From what I’ve read, it seems that this problem stems from AMD GPU behavior (and that it happens on both Mac and PC regardless of being desktop or laptop GPU; Once the GPU is driving more than one monitor, it will always keep its Memory clock at maximum in order to drive the displays.

It has been the case with my 2015 15” with R9 m370x also.

Would be curious as to how say, 2014 with GT750m handles in this case.

It also seems that the reason 5600M is not affected is just due to it having HBM memory, and maybe it has lower memory power consumption, even when fully clocked”

Can any of you guys verify this on bootcamp/Windows using msi afterburner? Since there isn’t really any real way (that I found) to measure the GPU mem clock on macOS

There are many more sources, just google “AMD multiple monitor power”

Source:

AMDGPU To Allow Memory Re-Clocking Soon For Multi-Monitor Setups - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/myvk1e

 

[tbobmccoy]

I’m no longer dealing with this issue. The 16” MBP with the M1 Pro chip has no heat problems at all- the only time I’ve heard the fan run is when I’ve played Civ6 on it with high resolutions.

 

[kelvincht]

Nah, High side had always been 18W since Catalina on my experimental 5500M 16” (and no change in Momterey)

From what I’ve read, it seems that this problem stems from AMD GPU behavior (and that it happens on both Mac and PC regardless of being desktop or laptop GPU; Once the GPU is driving more than one monitor, it will always keep its Memory clock at maximum in order to drive the displays.

It has been the case with my 2015 15” with R9 m370x also.

Would be curious as to how say, 2014 with GT750m handles in this case.

It also seems that the reason 5600M is not affected is just due to it having HBM memory, and maybe it has lower memory power consumption, even when fully clocked”

Can any of you guys verify this on bootcamp/Windows using msi afterburner? Since there isn’t really any real way (that I found) to measure the GPU mem clock on macOS

There are many more sources, just google “AMD multiple monitor power”

Source:

AMDGPU To Allow Memory Re-Clocking Soon For Multi-Monitor Setups - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/myvk1e

Yes in boot camp I can verify that is the case. Memory clock goes to max whenever two monitors with different timing and colour bit rate are used.

 

[kelvincht]

And you only had to sacrifice Windows Bootcamp, eGPU and Nvidia CUDA capabilities.

Not to mention that matrix multiplication and similar scientific compute tasks are twice as fast in the old Intel i9 mac (14 nm) compared to the new M1 Pro / Max (5 nm). Wolfram Mathematica benchmarks give a score of 2.5 on the M1 and 3.5 on the old intel i9. But you won't see this mentioned by youtubers. They just do video editing benchmarks.

M1 also not suitable for non xcode software development. Many libraries are built and tested on x86 only. Arm to x86 emulation is slow and has compatabiliy issues. It is not yet ready to replace stable and mature x86 development environmen.

 

[huythanhv2]

This is a very sad post but I have purchased the cheapest M1 Macbook Air. That was just because we have 2 months to try the Macbook Air out and return any time thanks to holiday return policy.

But boys oh boys, the cheapest 256GB storage 8GB RAM Macbook Air is putting the 16" MBP that costed me almost 5x to shame.

I am able to run with the 5K ultrafine in complete silent thanks to no fan on the Macbook Air. After 3-4 hours of working with dual screen, I was expecting the Air will be uncomfortably hot - wrong - it was just barely warm, it would be how warm the 16" Macbook Pro would be running by itself without monitor in about 10 mins!

I now can use the Air on my lap seating in bed at night working. Last night when I did that, the battery goes from 100 to 90 for 2-3 hours of work, unreal... (I don't install anything is not M1 native, every tools I need thankfully all has an M1 version now - otherwise I run their web version)

I want to fight the fight but I'm getting tired now, this is something I could stay and fight on principle or take a loss, move on and enjoy my life; I guess I'm picking the later.

 

[mo5214]

Yes in boot camp I can verify that is the case. Memory clock goes to max whenever two monitors with different timing and colour bit rate are used.

Nice find. Then the way to solve this is probably somewhere along the lines of

1. Wait for AMD driver updates that scale clocks (unlikely on macOS)

2. Force lower memClock by flashing vBios with newer power table (not soft power table, but the ones in vBios

3. Mess around with AGPM (and in addition, X6000 controller kext) to force lower power state

4. lowering temp physically. Such as VRM Mod,

 

[PeterJP]

This is a very sad post but I have purchased the cheapest M1 Macbook Air. That was just because we have 2 months to try the Macbook Air out and return any time thanks to holiday return policy.

I want to fight the fight but I'm getting tired now, this is something I could stay and fight on principle or take a loss, move on and enjoy my life; I guess I'm picking the later.

Yeah, at a certain point in life you decide it's a better use of your time to admit that the alternative is actually good enough. Sure, there are certain use cases in which the Intel 16” will still be better, but if the MBA works fine for you, then go and enjoy it!

 

[UBS28]

Winter is coming. Hot MBP is good.

 

[JosepPont]

Well, a message for all the new M1 pro and max owners that comes here to post how really cool and silent is their new machines. OK, we did really know that but the people that spent that amount of money with the Intel version less than two years ago and still have the thermal problems wants Apple to solve the problem so, please, stop telling us switch to Apple Silicon coz we want our machines running well not as a faulty oven.

Thank you!

 

[mo5214]

Also, can any of you try this in Bootcamp?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/qbv8al
Or just try it using screenresX

 

[kelvincht]

Nice find. Then the way to solve this is probably somewhere along the lines of

1. Wait for AMD driver updates that scale clocks (unlikely on macOS)

2. Force lower memClock by flashing vBios with newer power table (not soft power table, but the ones in vBios

3. Mess around with AGPM (and in addition, X6000 controller kext) to force lower power state

4. lowering temp physically. Such as VRM Mod,

1 Unlikely
2 I tried to change the memory clock using GPUZ+MPT for SoftPowerPlayTable(SPPT). I can’t find the right memory clock parameters to make it work. GPU crashes as soon as I change lower memory timing.
Too scared to change vBios yet
3. Would like to see if anyone tried that route
4 is implemented. Reduce fan idle speed significantly but machine still noisy during load

 

[kelvincht]

Also, can any of you try this in Bootcamp?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/qbv8al
Or just try it using screenresX

Good tips. I did used CRU to fixed both of my external monitor when lid closed. The tricky part is the build in open lid monitor is not very forgiving for non default timing changes.

 

[schriker]

I was active in this thread so I guess I will just let you know that I just sold my 16" base model last week and bought for that money M1 Air 512/16. Best decision ever. I was just tired of waiting for a proper fix. LPM in my case makes 16" feels slow. Now, Air runs much smoother than 16", all system UI feels snappier and native apps run much better. Even apps that work under Rossetta run really well. And laptop gets barely warm, even working with laptop screen + external monitor.

 

[WilliamG]

And you only had to sacrifice Windows Bootcamp, eGPU and Nvidia CUDA capabilities.

Not to mention that matrix multiplication and similar scientific compute tasks are twice as fast in the old Intel i9 mac (14 nm) compared to the new M1 Pro / Max (5 nm). Wolfram Mathematica benchmarks give a score of 2.5 on the M1 and 3.5 on the old intel i9. But you won't see this mentioned by youtubers. They just do video editing benchmarks.

Good thing I care about none of these things!

 

[firetrap]

Also, can any of you try this in Bootcamp?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/qbv8al
Or just try it using screenresX

I tried with multiple configs and nothing. I've reduced my Pixel clock to the min of my display and nothing.
The original res:


The custom with pixel clock down:


And you can see on top the Radeon power usage

 

[Hollycene]

Solve the problem how to enable full CPU performance in LPM is last piece of puzzle we need for perfection.

 

[kelvincht]

I tried with multiple configs and nothing. I've reduced my Pixel clock to the min of my display and nothing.
The original res:
View attachment 1904838

The custom with pixel clock down:
View attachment 1904839

And you can see on top the Radeon power usage

You also need to make sure the color bit rate is identical between monitors. Refresh rate should be same as well