(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[Grammar1]

Another interesting find: while using a usb-c to HDMI cable with the same Lg monitor a mentioned above, I get some different numbers. (again tested in Clamshell mode)

There are 5 Options of 2560x1440 in "Standard (x1)" of EasyRes, one with 60hz, 50hz, 30hz, 25hz, 24hz

-2560x1440 60hz: Resulted in 18W Radeon High Side (System Report showed 2560x1440 @60Hz)
-2560x1440 50hz,30hz,25hz,24hz: all worked fine 4-5W (System Report showed the same in all cases)

Typ of connection shown by System Report: "DVI or HDMI"

-3840x2160 with usb-c to hdmi: same 5 different refresh rates, all worked fine 5-6W
-3840x2160 with usb-c to usb-c: 60hz and 30hz both work fine 5-6W

Good info. That's really interesting so it seems that while 2560x1440 @60hz may be a bust with HDMI the same thing via USB-C to USB-C may work. The solution for people with misbehaving monitors could be as simple as using USB-C instead of HDMI?? Edit or possibly USB-C to DP?


What's strange is that DP alt mode (USB-C to USB-C) works at 2560x1440 @60hz while HDMI doesn't. That doesn't really make any sense to me.

*Edit* - Interesting to see 2560x1440 60hz works with USB-C to DP 1.4(?) for you. This is something to explore. I can't see any reason why the Dell 2719DC that was mentioned earlier would not behave via the same connection.

I'm going to buy one in any case so we'll see if DP 1.2 works for that configuration.

 

[pb01890]

Mbp 16" with LG 5K - TB3

2560x1440
Open-lid: 18W

Clamshell: 5W

 

[itakemycoronawithalime]

I have a bone to pick with using my laptop clamshell and not open-lid beside my external. Let me vent a little and request some outside perspective. I am not sure I am dramatizing and over valuing my argument below, but hear me out.

- The speakers: Safe to say they did an amazing job on the sound this refresh.

- The 16" screen we have all been waiting for and for most of us the sole reason we purchased the 16" MBP.

- The touch-bar over the years I have warmed up to. I now use it for turning Zoom meeting features on and off, I use it when I am on Youtube, I use it to adjust brightness, I use the fingerprint sensor.

- There is this gratification as a minimalistic person to have just my laptop on my butcher block, it almost makes multiple monitors feels distracting and at some a false sense of productivity,

These are just things I have noticed since running my 16" MBP in clamshell, your thoughts?

I would love to have my MBP on my twelve south "curve" right beside my external. That would be my ideal setup and it's pretty ****** I can't without losing the overhead wattage that I will because of the issue at hand.

 

[schertlerbombe]

I have a bone to pick with using my laptop clamshell and not open-lid beside my external. Let me vent a little and request some outside perspective. I am not sure I am dramatizing and over valuing my argument below, but hear me out.

- The speakers: Safe to say they did an amazing job on the sound this refresh.

- The 16" screen we have all been waiting for and for most of us the sole reason we purchased the 16" MBP.

- The touch-bar over the years I have warmed up to. I now use it for turning Zoom meeting features on and off, I use it when I am on Youtube, I use it to adjust brightness, I use the fingerprint sensor.

- There is this gratification as a minimalistic person to have just my laptop on my butcher block, it almost makes multiple monitors feels distracting and at some a false sense of productivity,

These are just things I have noticed since running my 16" MBP in clamshell, your thoughts?

I would love to have my MBP on my twelve south "curve" right beside my external. That would be my ideal setup and it's pretty ****** I can't without losing the overhead wattage that I will because of the issue at hand.

Yes that sums it up.

For me its also the one cable plug and play of my new Lg monitor that supports power delivery of 60Watts. While in Laptop only mode, I don't usually use more than 60W for my workflow.
Now when connected only to the monitor with open lid, my battery will slowly discharge and the powersupply is needed, therefore ruining the one cable setup.

 

[itakemycoronawithalime]

Yes that sums it up.

For me its also the one cable plug and play of my new Lg monitor that supports power delivery of 60Watts. While in Laptop only mode, I don't usually use more than 60W for my workflow.
Now when connected only to the monitor with open lid, my battery will slowly discharge and the powersupply is needed, therefore ruining the one cable setup.

Would it be crazy to go back to just the MBP because of all this and return my two externals?

 

[Spartan23R]

Would it be crazy to go back to just the MBP because of all this and return my two externals?

Yes that would be crazy, 100%. But if your workflow doesn't really need extra monitors, get the cash back

 

[ChromeCrescendo]

Has anyone tested this with the Pro Display XDR?

 

[gsbabil]

Would it be crazy to go back to just the MBP because of all this and return my two externals?

Yes that would be crazy, 100%. But if your workflow doesn't really need extra monitors, get the cash back

@itakemycoronawithalime

>> Would it be crazy to go back to just the MBP because of all this and return my two externals?

I feel similarly to @Spartan23R - it would be crazy to keep the MBP-2019 if your use-case involves (and improved by) using external displays together with the MBP-2019's Retina display and other features you've detailed here.

If I could return my MBP-2019 now, I would send it back immediately.

Right now, it's a defective piece of hardware for me that I paid a premium amount for, and I don't appreciate the fact how Apple took the money but don't acknowledge these issues with their product.

Hope this helps. Thanks.
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Has anyone tested this with the Pro Display XDR?

No known good configuration in "open-lid" mode so far.

- https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an-external-monitor.2211747/post-28109589
- https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an-external-monitor.2211747/post-28174937
- https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an-external-monitor.2211747/post-28221595

- MORE DETAILS: https://forums.macrumors.com/search/615653/?q=XDR&t=post&c[thread]=2211747&o=relevance

 

[itakemycoronawithalime]

@itakemycoronawithalime

>> Would it be crazy to go back to just the MBP because of all this and return my two externals?

I feel similarly to @Spartan23R - it would be crazy to keep the MBP-2019 if your use-case involves (and improved by) using external displays together with the MBP-2019's Retina display and other features you've detailed here.

Could you elaborate on this? Are you advising that if I need an external to do my work I should not have a MBP in the first place?

If so this would side with my argument that I should be using the MBP by itself.

 

[gsbabil]

Could you elaborate on this? Are you advising that if I need an external to do my work I should not have a MBP in the first place?

If so this would side with my argument that I should be using the MBP by itself.

>> Are you advising that if I need an external to do my work I should not have a MBP in the first place?

If you need to use _both_ the MBP-2019 and external display(s) at the same time (open-lide mode), I would not recommend you buy a MBP-2019 laptop.

>> If so this would side with my argument that I should be using the MBP by itself.

I was actually just trying to answer whether you should buy or keep your MBP-2019 (assuming you can defer your purchase, or can still return it), and not how you may want to use it - this part is really up for personal preference, needs etc.

For example, there are satisfied people on this thread with noise-canceling headphones with music playing around most of the time. This crowd is naturally less affected with fans spinning at ~4200-4500 RPM.

There might also be another group who don't need to use an additional external display together with the MBP-2019's Retina display (clamshell). You may fall into this category - really depends on how you are willing to accommodate yourself to using the laptop.

I personally hate the fact that I can't use my Dell 4K monitor with the laptop because of the heat and noise.

I think you should consider the following questions given your use-case scenarios.

1. [OPEN-LID] Do you need to use _both_ the MBP-2019 Retina display and an external display simultaneously?
   
   • If the answer is "yes", I think you should stay away from buying the MBP-2019.
     • MBP-2019 in "open-lid" mode is known to get rather hot and noisy making it quite unpleasant to use. The Radeon 5300/5500 dGPU will continuously draw ~19-20 W of power as long as the external display(s) are connected and continue to keep it hot and noisy. Although still unverified, prolonged use in this scenario might also be harmful to the internal hardware.
     • If you must buy a Mac, see if MBP-2017 15" can meet your needs. The Radeon 560 dGPU isn't known to demonstrate the 5500/5300 dGPU problems (560 draws around ~6W with external monitor in open-lid mode).
2. [CLAMSHELL] Can you live with the "clamshell" mode (sacrificing the MBP-2019 Retina display, track-pad, touch-bar, touch-ID, etc.)?
   
   • If the answer is "yes", I think you could buy the MBP-2019.
     • There are some known GOOD resolution/refresh-rate/monitor combinations that will make the Radeon dGPU to draw ~6-7 W in clamshell mode and won't make the MBP-2019 hot and noisy.
     • There are also known BAD resolution/refresh-rate/monitor combinations that will make the Radeon dGPU to draw ~19-20 W even in clamshell mode making the MBP-2019 rather hot and noisy.
     • So, even if the "clamshell" mode works for you, you might still be looking at buying the right monitor to survive under this mode.
3. [N/A] Can you live without using any external monitor?
   • If the answer is "yes", I think you could buy the MBP-2019.

So again, I would not recommend buying this laptop to anyone who wants to use it with external display(s) in open-lid mode.

Hope this helps. Thanks.

 

[itakemycoronawithalime]

>> Are you advising that if I need an external to do my work I should not have a MBP in the first place?

If you need to use _both_ the MBP-2019 and external display(s) at the same time (open-lide mode), I would not recommend you buy a MBP-2019 laptop.

>> If so this would side with my argument that I should be using the MBP by itself.

I was actually just trying to answer whether you should buy or keep your MBP-2019 (assuming you can defer your purchase, or can still return it), and not how you may want to use it - this part is really up for personal preference, needs etc.

For example, there are satisfied people on this thread with noise-canceling headphones with music playing around most of the time. This crowd is naturally less affected with fans spinning at ~4200-4500 RPM.

There might also be another group who don't need to use an additional external display together with the MBP-2019's Retina display (clamshell). You may fall into this category - really depends on how you are willing to accommodate yourself to using the laptop.

I personally hate the fact that I can't use my Dell 4K monitor with the laptop because of the heat and noise.

I think you should consider the following questions given your use-case scenarios.

1. [OPEN-LID] Do you need to use _both_ the MBP-2019 Retina display and an external display simultaneously?
   • If the answer is "yes", I think you should stay away from buying the MBP-2019.
     • MBP-2019 in "open-lid" mode is known to get rather hot and noisy making it quite unpleasant to use. The Radeon 5300/5500 dGPU will continuously draw ~19-20 W of power as long as the external display(s) are connected and continue to keep it hot and noisy. Although still unverified, prolonged use in this scenario might also be harmful to the internal hardware.
     • If you must buy a Mac, see if MBP-2017 15" can meet your needs. The Radeon 560 dGPU isn't known to demonstrate the 5500/5300 dGPU problems (560 draws around ~6W with external monitor in open-lid mode).
2. [CLAMSHELL] Can you live with the "clamshell" mode (sacrificing the MBP-2019 Retina display, track-pad, touch-bar, touch-ID, etc.)?
   • If the answer is "yes", I think you could buy the MBP-2019.
     • There are some known GOOD resolution/refresh-rate/monitor combinations that will make the Radeon dGPU to draw ~6-7 W in clamshell mode and won't make the MBP-2019 hot and noisy.
     • There are also known BAD resolution/refresh-rate/monitor combinations that will make the Radeon dGPU to draw ~19-20 W even in clamshell mode making the MBP-2019 rather hot and noisy.
     • So, even if the "clamshell" mode works for you, you might still be looking at buying the right monitor to survive under this mode.
3. [N/A] Can you live without using any external monitor?
   • If the answer is "yes", I think you could buy the MBP-2019.

So again, I would not recommend buying this laptop to anyone who wants to use it with external display(s) in open-lid mode.

Hope this helps. Thanks.

I appreciate your feedback. I guess what I was trying to get across is strictly from a value standpoint. Using a MBP in clamshell is leaving a lot of hardware that we pay for on these things unusable as I mentioned before.

 

[gsbabil]

I appreciate your feedback. I guess what I was trying to get across is strictly from a value standpoint. Using a MBP in clamshell is leaving a lot of hardware that we pay for on these things unusable as I mentioned before.

Yes, agreed.

From a value standpoint, it's a bad purchase, bad investment for me - not being able to use the open-lid mode with an external display connected without getting the laptop hot & noisy is a massive drawback in my opinion.

Again, if I could return my MBP-2019 now and get a refund, I would send it back immediately.

Thanks.

 

[itakemycoronawithalime]

Yes, agreed.

From a value standpoint, it's a bad purchase, bad investment for me - not being able to use the open-lid mode with an external display connected without getting the laptop hot & noisy is a massive drawback in my opinion.

Again, if I could return my MBP-2019 now and get a refund, I would send it back immediately.

Thanks.

I am in the same boat, the actual 16" MBP is over the return block. The (2) 4k UltraFine displays however are within return limits and actually indefinite as stores are closed and return period is extended.

So I have to decide if it is worth it to me to run the (2) displays in clamshell and just deal with the reality of not using the speakers and fingerprint sensor etc....

It is nice to have one vertical and one horizontal. I had the vertical off to my left turned inward a bit and I always had my PDF's up and it was pretty nice having so much of the PDF exposed without scrolling.

But at the end of the day it's like....is it crazy to keep an external just for that. Personal dilemma.

 

[decipherkl]

I think at this point it's well understood that internal+external is essentially a no go.


There is anecdotal evidence that different refresh rates, scaling and cable connections can have an effect on clamshell mode.

Shall we make a list of working and non-working clamshell setups?


Working -

LG 27GL850 - 2560x1440 - 99,8MHz - Belkin USB-C -> HDMI
+ (3840x2160) - 60hz - usb-c to usb-c cable

P2415Q - 3840 x 2160 - 30Mhz - Apple USB-C to HDMI
P2415Q - 2560 x 1440 - 24/5Mhz - Apple USB-C to HDMI




Non-working -

LG 27GL850 - 2560x1440 - 99,88MHz (@Norbert Mikołajczyk can you confirm?) - Unitek USB-C to DisplayPort 1.2

Dell 2715H - 2560x1440 - 60MHz - Anker 5-1 USB-C hub to HDMI

Dell 2715H - 2560x1440 - 60MHz - USB-C to HDMI

Dell U2518D - 2560x1440 - 60hz - USB-C to HDMI

Dell U2719dc - 2560x1440 - 60hz - USB-C - HDMI/DP

38GL950G - @x3sphere can you confirm resolution, refresh rate and connection method?

Also working:

Dell U2719dc clamshell mode - 1920x1080 - 60Hz - USB-C to USB-C and USB-C to DisplayPort (temperature range 48-52C)
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Just coming back to this. Another user here has the Dell U2719dc running at 2560x1440 @60HZ. Same issues with USB C - DP .

I think at this point I'm ready write off 2560x1440 @60hz monitors. Seems to be mostly Dells.


The question now is whether our money is best spent on new monitors or an eGpu setup which will (possibly) give us back use of our internal screens too.

I've the exact same monitor. Try 1080p in clamshell mode. It'll draw 5-7W.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

I have a bone to pick with using my laptop clamshell and not open-lid beside my external. Let me vent a little and request some outside perspective. I am not sure I am dramatizing and over valuing my argument below, but hear me out.

- The speakers: Safe to say they did an amazing job on the sound this refresh.

- The 16" screen we have all been waiting for and for most of us the sole reason we purchased the 16" MBP.

- The touch-bar over the years I have warmed up to. I now use it for turning Zoom meeting features on and off, I use it when I am on Youtube, I use it to adjust brightness, I use the fingerprint sensor.

- There is this gratification as a minimalistic person to have just my laptop on my butcher block, it almost makes multiple monitors feels distracting and at some a false sense of productivity,

These are just things I have noticed since running my 16" MBP in clamshell, your thoughts?

I would love to have my MBP on my twelve south "curve" right beside my external. That would be my ideal setup and it's pretty ****** I can't without losing the overhead wattage that I will because of the issue at hand.

Not just the Touch Bar but the Touch ID sensor is amazing.

That's one of the reasons I keep using it in open lid, to quickly log in onto stuff... I do wish they could release a external keyboard with the Touch Bar and Touch ID.

Either way I'm trying to work with the open lid because I need more than 2 monitors right now (installing linux machines, being on conference, opening chrome tabs for tickets and etc)

For those wondering, currently I'm using a Acer Predator X34 via HDMI with USB-C dock.. resolution 3440x1440

 

[schertlerbombe]

Good info. That's really interesting so it seems that while 2560x1440 @60hz may be a bust with HDMI the same thing via USB-C to USB-C may work. The solution for people with misbehaving monitors could be as simple as using USB-C instead of HDMI?? Edit or possibly USB-C to DP?


What's strange is that DP alt mode (USB-C to USB-C) works at 2560x1440 @60hz while HDMI doesn't. That doesn't really make any sense to me.

*Edit* - Interesting to see 2560x1440 60hz works with USB-C to DP 1.4(?) for you. This is something to explore. I can't see any reason why the Dell 2719DC that was mentioned earlier would not behave via the same connection.

I'm going to buy one in any case so we'll see if DP 1.2 works for that configuration.

I was able to test the different DisplayPort standards by switching between version 1.4, 1.2 and 1.1 in the Displaysettings of my LG monitor.
While using the known good resolution of 2560x1440 60Hz for the usb-c to usb-c connection, all versions worked fine 4,3-5W idle. (clamshell of course)

 

[kooky]

I have 2x LG 5K Ultrafine (the TB3 Apple ones, the first 85W version, not the updated 96W one)
- Clamshell or none, if I have resolution "Default for display" (2560x1440): 18W
- Clamshell at 2880 x 1620: 9W
- Monitors connected individually on each TB3 bus (1x RHS of Mac, 1x RHS)
- MBP 16" model 5500M with power supply plugged in
(I have to change both monitor resolutions to get this, if I leave one at 2560x1440 then it goes to 18W)

(above Radeon High Side values)

I don't understand why:
- 2560 x 1440 spikes to 18W
- why some users get only 5W clamshell, when I get 9W ---> The answer is because I have 2x monitors connected. When I unplug 1x, it drops to 5W clamshell.

I am not sure about the Hz, this is Australia so I think it is 50Hz

Anyway I hope this helps, I can report more data if need be.

 

[schertlerbombe]

Clamshell at 2880 x 1620: 9W

Are those 9W with both LG Ultrafines connected ? If so, how are they connected, Daisy-chained or individually connected ?

 

[kooky]

Are those 9W with both LG Ultrafines connected ? If so, how are they connected, Daisy-chained or individually connected ?

Yes, both connected individually. They are TB3, so 1x each left/right side of the Mac (1 on each bus).

 

[aleni]

Maybe something’s faulty with your mbp, like thermal paste isn’t placed properly from factory.

i use 4k monitor with my 2018 13” macbook pro in Indonesia without air conditioner, room temp is like 84°F and I can run this machine for many hours doing photoshop and illustrator designs. (500Mb-1Gb of files, quite heavy).

I’m thinking of buying the 16” too but a bit scared now because of what you experienced.

 

[schertlerbombe]

Seems to be the only way to drive more than 1 display at the moment without getting stuck to 18W, even if only in clamshell mode.

 

[kooky]

Are those 9W with both LG Ultrafines connected ? If so, how are they connected, Daisy-chained or individually connected ?

Aha! I just worked out, the reason 2x are running at ~9W, and not 5W .. if I disconnect one .. it drops down to 5W! So 2x connected = 9W. Makes sense.

 

[schertlerbombe]

Aha! I just worked out, the reason 2x are running at ~9W, and not 5W .. if I disconnect one .. it drops down to 5W! So 2x connected = 9W. Makes sense.

That right there is the evidence of this whole Powermanagemt Problem!
Of course it works with Monitors sold by Apple haha. Well.. in clamshell mode at least.

 

[itakemycoronawithalime]

That right there is the evidence of this whole Powermanagemt Problem!
Of course it works with Monitors sold by Apple haha. Well.. in clamshell mode at least.

I decided to run my 4K Ultrafine with my lid open as I want. I have decided if I run into issues due to heat I will throw the god damn thing through their ****ing window and **** on the floor.

 

[dapa0s]

Issues with heat or issues with loud fans?