(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[MrGunnyPT]

I think this issue honestly needs to get more traction. Someone needs to get this information to Youtubers, they are always in need of content, and the only bigger one I saw talking about it is Max tech.

Yeah, Max is great going down to the issues. We should get Dave Lee on the line..

 

[gsbabil]

Apple Seeds First Beta of Upcoming macOS Catalina 10.15.5 Update to Developers

Apple today seeded the first beta of an upcoming macOS Catalina 10.15.5 update to developers for testing purposes, one week after releasing macOS Catalina 10.15.4 with Screen Time Communication Limits, iCloud Folder Sharing, and real-time Apple Music lyrics. The new ??macOS Catalina?? beta...

forums.macrumors.com

Thanks for clarifying. It appears that Apple is being selective and 10.15.5 is not available on my end yet.
[automerge]1585821318[/automerge]

That is actually the ideal way. Top you tubers. Apple would hear it then.

My experience is that the "top" YouTubers aren't excited about covering this issue i.e. "not their problem". Thanks.

 

[Salomonander]

...or top youtubers are maybe, just maybe on some companies payrolls ?‍♂️

 

[cpk1]

You need to change the refresh rate.. this monitor has Freesync and it's native is 165Hz so you should have some options.

How to Show All Possible Screen Resolutions for a Display in Mac OS X

Though it’s generally recommended to use the ‘Default for display’ screen resolution option, Mac users who connect their computer to an external display or TV may find it helpful …

osxdaily.com

Just tried Displayport instead of HDMI, and unfortunately 59.88hz, 144hz and 164.75hz all draw 18-19W at 2560x1440 in clamshell mode.

1920x1080 draws ~5W as expected, but looks pretty bad and I can't work at that resolution.

 

[maik_is_here]

It'd be great to absolutely confirm that an eGPU will completely bypass the dGPU (and avoid heat/noise/thermal-throttling issues) before I spend $700+ (AUD). I'm currently searching this thread for first hand reports.

I had a MBP2019 15inch with Sonnet eGPU last year. I moved on to MBP 16 inch in November and continued using my eSonnet puck (ATI 570) with the new MBP. It was a great working experience.

2 weeks ago, my eGPU died and I had to plug in my monitors directly into the MBP for the first time. for the record, I use a 4K Asus monitor (Displayport) at high scaling and a Full HD monitor (HDMI).

I noticed right away that fans went crazy during normal work. They would run at 5600 rounds almost continuously. During Online Meetings etc Kerneltast kicked in, CPU speed went down often to 1.0Ghz and the machine almost ground to a halt. This was reproducible, frustrating and impacted my work.

My 'solutions'
1: to unplug all monitors during online meetings. The machine would recover to acceptable speeds quickly.
2: to disable turbo boost during normal working hours. Machine would stabilize between 2-2.4Ghz speed at high fan rates. I was also very hot to the touch.

2 days ago I was so frustrated that I bought the Razer Core X locally. I run it with a 5500XT graphics card.

Impact?

* The machine (MBP 16 inch i9, 2.4Ghz) runs entirely smoothly again, whatever I throw at it.
* fans rarely go beyond 3800, which is the threshold beyond I start hearing them. In fact, in many working sessions, where I have lots of programs running, fans stay at below 2000.
* CPU speeds are almost constantly around 3.5Ghz (!!). It's an amazingly fluid working experience.
* The laptop is not excessively hot.
* So yes, in my impression, once eGPU is attached, the internal GPU is completely bypassed. My assumption is that this also provides extra power reserve to run the CPU faster. The laptop likely does not have to serve the internal GPU with any power. My eGPU provides 100W power, btw.

FYI, total cost for my eGPU with graphics card was around 500 USD. The unit is bulky, but I managed to turn it into a monitor stand! It's a bit challenging, as it has to be positioned very close to the laptop due to short TB3 cable length. The eGPU is completely quiet for me, btw. Even under normal load, it barely gets warm to the touch.

Hope that helps some of those frustrated out there.

 

[hvfsl]

Out of interest, I have a 2.3 i9 and haven't noticed the problems many are experiencing here. I have 2 HD monitors connected and while I am working at home, I have Skype running all the time on one, then browsers and RDP on the other 2. I also regularly play a game on one and then youtube/webpages on the other 2 without issue. Is everyone with the problem got an i9 2.4 or is it just using external 4K monitors that is the problem?

 

[Tnanman]

Is everyone with the problem got an i9 2.4 or is it just using external 4K monitors that is the problem?

No, I have the 2.3Ghz i9 also paired with a 5300M and I have this issue. Everything is fine until I plug into an external monitor (2560 x1440, 60hz)

 

[mrmachine79]

I had a MBP2019 15inch with Sonnet eGPU last year. I moved on to MBP 16 inch in November and continued using my eSonnet puck (ATI 570) with the new MBP. It was a great working experience.

2 weeks ago, my eGPU died and I had to plug in my monitors directly into the MBP for the first time. for the record, I use a 4K Asus monitor (Displayport) at high scaling and a Full HD monitor (HDMI).

I noticed right away that fans went crazy during normal work. They would run at 5600 rounds almost continuously. During Online Meetings etc Kerneltast kicked in, CPU speed went down often to 1.0Ghz and the machine almost ground to a halt. This was reproducible, frustrating and impacted my work.

My 'solutions'
1: to unplug all monitors during online meetings. The machine would recover to acceptable speeds quickly.
2: to disable turbo boost during normal working hours. Machine would stabilize between 2-2.4Ghz speed at high fan rates. I was also very hot to the touch.

2 days ago I was so frustrated that I bought the Razer Core X locally. I run it with a 5500XT graphics card.

Impact?

* The machine (MBP 16 inch i9, 2.4Ghz) runs entirely smoothly again, whatever I throw at it.
* fans rarely go beyond 3800, which is the threshold beyond I start hearing them. In fact, in many working sessions, where I have lots of programs running, fans stay at below 2000.
* CPU speeds are almost constantly around 3.5Ghz (!!). It's an amazingly fluid working experience.
* The laptop is not excessively hot.
* So yes, in my impression, once eGPU is attached, the internal GPU is completely bypassed. My assumption is that this also provides extra power reserve to run the CPU faster. The laptop likely does not have to serve the internal GPU with any power. My eGPU provides 100W power, btw.

FYI, total cost for my eGPU with graphics card was around 500 USD. The unit is bulky, but I managed to turn it into a monitor stand! It's a bit challenging, as it has to be positioned very close to the laptop due to short TB3 cable length. The eGPU is completely quiet for me, btw. Even under normal load, it barely gets warm to the touch.

Hope that helps some of those frustrated out there.

Thanks so much. This matches exactly my experience. For anyone else out there, wanting to test or reproduce this issue this is how I do it on a fresh install of latest Catalina:

- Install iStat menus and Intel Power Gadget for monitoring, plus a few basic apps that I typically use: Discord or Zoom, Git Fork, Google Chrome, Slack, VS Code.
- Launch the apps from above plus Terminal and Activity Monitor to simulate a typical work environment. I don't have to do anything with the apps, they're just sitting idle using barely any CPU.
- In Activity monitor, go to Window > GPU History (CMD-4) to see iGPU and dGPU utilisation.
- In Terminal run `pmset -g thermlog` and watch `CPU_Speed_Limit` (drops from 100 when thermal throttling).
- Run a 1-1 Discord or Zoom video chat with someone (an iMac sitting next to my machine on the same desk) to put some base load on the GPU.
- Note the CPU is probably 85-90% idle but fans are blazing at 5900 (left) and 5400 (right), which is close to max. So there's nowhere else to go for cooling if CPU/GPU demand (and heat) increase but to thermal throttle.
- Note that `pmset -g thermlog` in Terminal is probably already showing thermal throttling.
- Note that CPU frequency in Intel Power Gadget and/or iStat menus might already be below spec (2.3GHz here, I've seen it as low as 800MHz but typically stabilises at 1.4GHz).
- Use the three finger expose gesture on the trackpad back and forth to put some additional load on the GPU.

After 30-60s `kernel_task` starts blocking as much as ~1000% CPU (on an 8-core machine), the video chat starts freezing up, the expose animation slows to a crawl, force trackpad feedback doesn't occur for clicks, beach ball spins, mouse cursor completely freezes, etc.

As I said, this is on a fresh install of Catalina, with just the supplied power brick and cable, and monitor (LG 27UK850-W) connected directly to the machine with the supplied USB-C cable (but I've also tried DP->USB-C and DP-DP via TB3 dock).

The monitor scaling is set to "looks like 2560x1440". This specific resolution appears to draw the most power (Radeon High Side in iStat menus is ~18-20W) and trigger the problem most easily. But looks like 1920x1080 and 3008x1692, and actual 2560x1440 (low DPI, activated by OPT-click on "scaled" then check "Show low resolution modes") also trigger it after swiping the expose gesture up and down for a bit longer.

 

[itakemycoronawithalime]

this entire situation is just ****ing sad on Apples's part. I don't even want this laptop any longer.

 

[Camarillo Brillo]

* The machine (MBP 16 inch i9, 2.4Ghz) runs entirely smoothly again, whatever I throw at it.
* fans rarely go beyond 3800, which is the threshold beyond I start hearing them. In fact, in many working sessions, where I have lots of programs running, fans stay at below 2000.
* CPU speeds are almost constantly around 3.5Ghz (!!). It's an amazingly fluid working experience.
* The laptop is not excessively hot.

I haven’t tried an eGPU, but what I have done, is run a terminal script to disable the Radeon 5500m in my machine. *this is not a solution for those using an external monitor - it won’t work*

But it turned out to be a perfect solution for Logic Pro running up the power and heat on the Radeon just like having an external monitor connected, even just running on the built in screen.

And by forcing use of integrated graphics, I noticed the exact same things you did - the computer runs cool and the fans stay under 2k rpm most of the time, and the cpu is pretty consistently 3.5 ghz! The result is greatly improved DAW stability. This is how it’s supposed to work. The cpu does not spike and dip dramatically in speed and temperature, it is consistent and stable.

My conclusion is that the Radeon forces the computer to ration the available power in such a way that the CPU runs like crap, bouncing around from one frequency to the next to accommodate the changes in available power, at the same time nearby Radeon card heats up the CPU which compounds the problem, causing more dips in processor speed as the computer tries to cool down the CPU.

In Logic Pro, this was causing audio dropouts and system overload errors when running a measly 4-8 track project with minimal plugins. Pathetic for this i9 8 core processor!! This is a very powerful processor, my old 2 core i5 was performing better than that. The difference with the Radeon disabled is like night and day. I haven't had a system overload message since I disabled it. If there were an option to run external monitors on the integrated graphics, I'd take it any day and call the radeon 5500m a loss. This almost has me wishing I had waited for the new 13/14" that should be coming soon with regular integrated graphics.

 

[schertlerbombe]

- Note that CPU frequency in Intel Power Gadget and/or iStat menus might already be below spec (2.3GHz here, I've seen it as low as 800MHz but typically stabilises at 1.4GHz).

I had a situation like this two times already (base i7 model) while connected to the external 4k screen. I monitor a lot of system infos with istat menus and the strange thing while this issue happened is that neither the cpu or gpu temps where really high, nor the total system power consumption was on the 96watts limit.


Also when doing a Cinebench cpu and a Heaven gpu benchmark at the same time, the temps where not high and also the total system power consumption was only at around 80W, yet both components throttle really hard.

 

[cpk1]

Does anyone know something similar to iStat Menus for Windows, so I can see how many watts the GPU is pulling in Bootcamp?

2560x1440 in macOS pulls 18-19W constantly in clamshell mode, but the same resolution in Windows 10 Bootcamp seems to working fine with only external display selected, which is strange as temps and fans are usually terrible in Bootcamp!

 

[schertlerbombe]

Does anyone know something similar to iStat Menus for Windows, so I can see how many watts the GPU is pulling in Bootcamp?

I used GPU-Z to monitor the Wattage of the GPU

My results:
Internal only: 14W
Internal + LG 4k60 Monitor: 13W
LG 4k60 only and internal screen turned off: 3W!
(I use the latest Driver version from bootcampdrivers.com)

 

[cpk1]

I used GPU-Z to monitor the Wattage of the GPU

My results:
Internal only: 14W
Internal + LG 4k60 Monitor: 13W
LG 4k60 only and internal screen turned off: 3W!
(I use the latest Driver version from bootcampdrivers.com)

Thanks, just tried it and got similar results in clamshell mode:

2560x1440 at 59hz and 60hz - 3W!
2560x1440 at 144hz and 165hz - 14W
Internal + External monitor - 14W

macOS is always 18-19W at 2560x1440 in clamshell and open mode. I really hope this gets fixed soon!

 

[Grammar1]

Just tried Displayport instead of HDMI, and unfortunately 59.88hz, 144hz and 164.75hz all draw 18-19W at 2560x1440 in clamshell mode.

1920x1080 draws ~5W as expected, but looks pretty bad and I can't work at that resolution.

That's a shame, I'm surprised none of the other refresh rates helped. Have you tried changing the DP options on the actual monitor?

I think my initial thoughts of HDMI+DP not working at 2560x1440x60hz were correct after all


I guess the only thing left to try is USB-C, Schecterbombe had success at 2560x1440 @60Hz using USB-C.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

Issues with heat or issues with loud fans?

Issues with heat which cause the fans to go loud.

 

[MrWeaselSir]

I have a 16" MBP connected to a 4K 32" monitor and it runs quietly until I drive it under load. One of the things that surprises me is that some websites drive the CPU load a bunch while others don't move the needle at all. I know it is because of all the crap (ads, location searches, ...) on a particular site but it is just surprising when it happens.

 

[davidbend]

I searched the internet for similar cases of high power consumption of the GPU with dual monitors. Many of the NVIDIA GPUs had the same issue in recent years. It took them a while, but they finally fixed that with drivers update. To the best of my understanding, the drivers' update is up to Apple, however, I sent a message to AMD in order to see what they have to say about it. Maybe there is still hope that it's a software issue...

(Take a look if you want: https://www.techpowerup.com/249345/...eforce-20-tested-on-rtx-2070-2080-and-2080-ti)

 

[dapa0s]

I have a 16" MBP connected to a 4K 32" monitor and it runs quietly until I drive it under load. One of the things that surprises me is that some websites drive the CPU load a bunch while others don't move the needle at all. I know it is because of all the crap (ads, location searches, ...) on a particular site but it is just surprising when it happens.

Which monitor is it? And do you use Safari or Chrome?

 

[itakemycoronawithalime]

I called Apple today and made my way to a senior support specialist. Explained everything to him in detail, and requested they help me out on purchasing AppleCare as I am a couple weeks passed the 60 day deadline.

Not to cover the cost, but to just grant me the ability to purchase coverage.

Nope. Wouldn't budge. Pretty unfortunate.

 

[thedocbwarren]

Question for the eGPU users:

Does your battery charge all the time when you have it plugged in? I'm wanting to get this very setup (razor Core / RX5700 XT) but I don't want to overcharge the battery. I use an external monitor all day all the time unless I go out (obviously that's not at all right now.)

Only thing I've noticed with my usage is the battery clearly drains faster when using a monitor due to the dGPU usage.

I had a MBP2019 15inch with Sonnet eGPU last year. I moved on to MBP 16 inch in November and continued using my eSonnet puck (ATI 570) with the new MBP. It was a great working experience.

2 weeks ago, my eGPU died and I had to plug in my monitors directly into the MBP for the first time. for the record, I use a 4K Asus monitor (Displayport) at high scaling and a Full HD monitor (HDMI).

I noticed right away that fans went crazy during normal work. They would run at 5600 rounds almost continuously. During Online Meetings etc Kerneltast kicked in, CPU speed went down often to 1.0Ghz and the machine almost ground to a halt. This was reproducible, frustrating and impacted my work.

My 'solutions'
1: to unplug all monitors during online meetings. The machine would recover to acceptable speeds quickly.
2: to disable turbo boost during normal working hours. Machine would stabilize between 2-2.4Ghz speed at high fan rates. I was also very hot to the touch.

2 days ago I was so frustrated that I bought the Razer Core X locally. I run it with a 5500XT graphics card.

Impact?

* The machine (MBP 16 inch i9, 2.4Ghz) runs entirely smoothly again, whatever I throw at it.
* fans rarely go beyond 3800, which is the threshold beyond I start hearing them. In fact, in many working sessions, where I have lots of programs running, fans stay at below 2000.
* CPU speeds are almost constantly around 3.5Ghz (!!). It's an amazingly fluid working experience.
* The laptop is not excessively hot.
* So yes, in my impression, once eGPU is attached, the internal GPU is completely bypassed. My assumption is that this also provides extra power reserve to run the CPU faster. The laptop likely does not have to serve the internal GPU with any power. My eGPU provides 100W power, btw.

FYI, total cost for my eGPU with graphics card was around 500 USD. The unit is bulky, but I managed to turn it into a monitor stand! It's a bit challenging, as it has to be positioned very close to the laptop due to short TB3 cable length. The eGPU is completely quiet for me, btw. Even under normal load, it barely gets warm to the touch.

Hope that helps some of those frustrated out there.

 

[joelhinch]

I have THE most bizarre issue after upgrading to 10.15.4

2x 4k Displays
CalDigit TS3+
MacBook Pro 16" in Clamshell (5500 M 8GB)

I now have an issue where 1x Monitor will run in 60hz and the other 30hz. And it changes (the monitor the syncs in 30hz vs 60hz alternates.
In my troubleshooting, this is ONLY happening when in Clamshell mode. Open the MacBook lid and boom, problem solved. Alll screens in 60hz. Close the lid, 1x 60hz 1x 30hz. Apples software is absolute garbage.

 

[An-apple-a-day]

Are you talking about with or without extended desktop? I have a 2012 rMBP and a 1600x1200 monitor, and all day for years I’ve been running an extended desktop with a drawing program, and the fans almost never kick on. But I don’t know what the situation is with newer GPUs and higher resolution monitors.

It's absolutely always. ~2000 RPM baseline, by design. At that speed, you wouldn't hear them nor feel the airflow at the vents with your fingers in a typical room. If you search around you may be able to find the old Apple Support document that describes that condition (many new unibody buyers contacted Apple after their 3rd party monitoring tools reported the ~2000 RPM when machine was cold and idle).

I first mentioned this 2000 RPM baseline after somebody said "I just expect that when my computer is IDLE the fans are IDLE."

 

[maik_is_here]

Question for the eGPU users:

Does your battery charge all the time when you have it plugged in? I'm wanting to get this very setup (razor Core / RX5700 XT) but I don't want to overcharge the battery. I use an external monitor all day all the time unless I go out (obviously that's not at all right now.)

Only thing I've noticed with my usage is the battery clearly drains faster when using a monitor due to the dGPU usage.

i don’t know what you mean by overcharge. No such thing. Your MAC controls how much power it draws from the source. Anyway, Depending on what egpu you buy, it might be powerful enough to support your highest workload. My previous esonnet egpu provided 65W, which means that sometimes the battery would drain a bit while running it. The razor core provides 100W, so it’s like having the Apple charger plugged in. Saves me one tb3 port.

How does that answer your question?

 

[mikethebigo]

Quick question for you all - when your 16" MBP's fans spin up, is it a low pitched sound, or is there a sort of high pitched whine with the fans as well?