(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[caupljx]

Here's my 16" on LG 43UD79 in clamshell mode. Straight USB-C connection that also seems to charge the MacBook (amazing...)

Lid open, it still does 18W. But clamshell is perfectly quiet and cool. This is pretty much the same case for my LG 34WK95U

So I'm starting to think the problem some may be seeing are just related to the dock/adapter that they are using.

And word of advice to those thinking about an eGPU: I have a 13" + eGPU setup that I was using prior to getting the 16" and the 16" by itself runs a lot quieter. The 13" MacBook wasn't noisy but the eGPU was quite noisy, even at idle. Under full load for gaming or 3D rendering, the 16" is significantly quieter and cooler than the eGPU by itself.

this has nothing to do with dock/adapter... if you switch your resolution to 2560*1440, you will probably see 18W in clamshell as well

 

[bill-p]

How do you like that monitor, how is the text scaling in 4K I am currently looking for a big monitor to replace multi monitor set up. are you doing the SwitchRexX 55hz setup to achieve the 5w in clamshell mode?

Thanks!

It's not so bad. I think it is very usable up to 2560 x 1440 but I'm also sitting a lot further away as it is mounted to the kitchen wall.

And no, I didn't have to do anything special. It's 60Hz. All I needed to do was plugged the USB-C cable into the monitor and the other end into my MacBook 16".

this has nothing to do with dock/adapter... if you switch your resolution to 2560*1440, you will probably see 18W in clamshell as well

Um... no.

Same LG 43UD79. I've set it to 2560 x 1440 low resolution (not HiDPI). I'm still only seeing 5W in clamshell.

I guess I can try to connect using Apple's USB-C -> HDMI 2.0 (sorry, this one doesn't seem to be HDMI 2.0?) adapter to see if that'll cause 18W next, but so far, I've only ever seen 5W when connecting my 16" MacBook to USB-C or Thunderbolt 3 displays.

----

Edit: Apple USB-C -> HDMI adapter

Still 5W in clamshell. I only see 18W when I open the MacBook.

 

[30jafl1[3]

From what I can tell, there's no big mystery here. With the computer in clamshell mode and an external monitor, the external display is run by the integrated graphics chip, and so the AMD discrete graphics chip idles at about 5-6 W. With the computer open + external monitor, the OS runs the displays with the AMD chip, which requires about 18 W for those tasks. The difference between 5-6 W and 18 W is just the difference between the AMD chip idling and powering the displays.

AMD chips in older MBPs are used in the same way: they run the displays when the computer is open and they idle in clamshell mode. The older AMD chips were less powerful, and therefore drew less power. My older Radeon Pro 455 idles at 5-6 W and uses 10 W to power the displays.

Buyers are left with choices: they can purchase an older MBP with a less powerful GPU, which will of course draw less power when active. OR they can purchase a new MBP with a more powerful GPU, which will draw more power when active. There's not going to be a fix that makes the more powerful GPU draw the same power as the less powerful GPU. You'll need to wait at least a generation for the chipsets to become more efficient for that.

 

[coolcoolcool]

In clamshell my GPU does 3-5W, and opening the lid makes it do 20W.

27" LG 4K monitor in HiDPI mode, connected with USB-C (charging through the monitor as well)
16" MBP (base model)

Waiting patiently for Apple to solve this.

 

[bill-p]

From what I can tell, there's no big mystery here. With the computer in clamshell mode and an external monitor, the external display is run by the integrated graphics chip, and so the AMD discrete graphics chip idles at about 5-6 W. With the computer open + external monitor, the OS runs the displays with the AMD chip, which requires about 18 W for those tasks. The difference between 5-6 W and 18 W is just the difference between the AMD chip idling and powering the displays.

I don't think this is true. You can see from my screenshots: the external display is connected directly to the discrete graphics chip.

It's definitely not running integrated.

When not connected to an external display, and integrated graphics is on, AMD graphics is off and consumes almost 0W.

 

[30jafl1[3]

I don't think this is true. You can see from my screenshots: the external display is connected directly to the discrete graphics chip.

It's definitely not running integrated.

When not connected to an external display, and integrated graphics is on, AMD graphics is off and consumes almost 0W.

You can use gfxCardStatus to check. With an external monitor connected, gfxCardStatus shows the computer switching from integrated (computer closed) to discrete graphics (computer open).

 

[Jbk123]

You can use gfxCardStatus to check. With an external monitor connected, gfxCardStatus shows the computer switching from integrated (computer closed) to discrete graphics (computer open).

according to my gfxcardstatus, when in clamshell mode with external monitor, the computer is still using discrete card. From my understanding, the external output of the computer is bind to discrete graphics physically. So it is not possible to use internal graphics with external monitor.

 

[bill-p]

You can use gfxCardStatus to check. With an external monitor connected, gfxCardStatus shows the computer switching from integrated (computer closed) to discrete graphics (computer open).

In case you didn't notice, iStat also has a similar feature. My screenshots showed A, which stands for AMD graphics. If integrated was enabled, it'd be "i" instead, but just for completeness, here's what gfxCardStatus shows:

And here's what it would look like if integrated graphics was enabled:

Radeon high side drops to about 0.10W and stays around there indefinitely until it's forced to be on.

 

[joelhinch]

With the computer in clamshell mode and an external monitor, the external display is run by the integrated graphics chip

Completely WRONG. It is impossible to use the integrated GPU with an external display on modern Macs with discrete graphics. As mentioned already. This is a hardware limitation. If you have an external display connected, the Mac will use the dGPU to power all displayed (external and internal) either in clamshell mode or lid open, regardless.

 

[decipherkl]

I observed something interesting today. I decided to turn off istat Menus and with the lid open I noticed the temperature (on turbo booster switcher which is on to stop turbo boosting; resolution of external monitor is 1440p @60Hz) is usually around 53-54C under light load and the fan is around 2400rpm. This seems more bearable than 60-65C with istat menu running. I have yet to test it extensively though. Also note that it's a relatively warm day today with ambient temperature probably in the high 20s C.

In clamshell mode and at 1080p @60Hz I normally get 47-50C with fan at ~1850rpm under light load.

 

[Caldzera]

Hello everybody

I'm sorry that I can't contribute anything and just barge in with my question. I come from German forums, where not so much has been written and experimented. We know the problem with external monitors and the heat, but no one has a solution in the German forums. Now I accidentally came across this forum and the huge Apple thread, which alone has over 120 pages.

Since I bought a new monitor with USB-C today, just for my MBP (I'm currently using my MBP 16" via hub and HDMI on my 27" monitor) and a cancellation is only possible until tomorrow, there is not enough time to read all 150+ pages of both sources. So before I receive and pay the monitor, I wanted to ask if there is already a reliable solution to this issue?

 

[silvetti]

@30jafl1[3 is the ghost of Steve Jobs and we're all using our laptops wrong.
[automerge]1587482030[/automerge]

Hello everybody

I'm sorry that I can't contribute anything and just barge in with my question. I come from German forums, where not so much has been written and experimented. We know the problem with external monitors and the heat, but no one has a solution in the German forums. Now I accidentally came across this forum and the huge Apple thread, which alone has over 120 pages.

Since I bought a new monitor with USB-C today, just for my MBP (I'm currently using my MBP 16" via hub and HDMI on my 27" monitor) and a cancellation is only possible until tomorrow, there is not enough time to read all 150+ pages of both sources. So before I receive and pay the monitor, I wanted to ask if there is already a reliable solution to this issue?

No solution.

 

[Jbk123]

Hello everybody

I'm sorry that I can't contribute anything and just barge in with my question. I come from German forums, where not so much has been written and experimented. We know the problem with external monitors and the heat, but no one has a solution in the German forums. Now I accidentally came across this forum and the huge Apple thread, which alone has over 120 pages.

Since I bought a new monitor with USB-C today, just for my MBP (I'm currently using my MBP 16" via hub and HDMI on my 27" monitor) and a cancellation is only possible until tomorrow, there is not enough time to read all 150+ pages of both sources. So before I receive and pay the monitor, I wanted to ask if there is already a reliable solution to this issue?

No solution, I believe the only work around so far is to run your Macbook Pro 16 in Clamshell Mode and run 1440p at 55hz.

 

[Caldzera]

@Jbk123
Yes, I read a post in the Apple support forum where an user with 144 hz reduced the GPU's power from 18W to about 5W, and therefore the temperature went down to normal. Unfortunately, my MacBook in combination with my monitor (Dell S2716DG) does not support 60+ Hz via HDMI, otherwise I would have tried this immediately. Clamshell (that means simply a closed MBP connected to the monitor, right?) is not an option for me, because I need as many screens as possible, since I often work with several documents at the same time. Well, then I will use my iPad Pro with Sidecar.

 

[Bustermd]

I was hoping to set up a desktop workstation with the MBP 16 but boy am I glad that I did my research and discovered this thread. As a stand alone laptop it’s been a good machine though.

I’m very frustrated with Apple. I’m thinking this might be my last Apple laptop. They’ve become an afterthought to the iPads/iPhones/watches, etc. They don’t “just work” anymore and when I’m hearing CPU temps getting up to 100 C I’m seriously doubting the longevity of these machines. in that case everyone is better off getting a windows laptop at a significantly lower price. They used to be no compromise machines that you paid a premium for. Now we are faced with having to make several compromises (I.e. use as laptop only).

I use my MBP mostly for productivity with multitasking (video conferencing, web, excel, word running simultaneously). Some light photo editing (Lightroom) as a hobby not for work. I, like I feel a large number of “pro” laptop owners (especially in the medical field like me) don’t necessarily need the power of the machine but bought it based on reputation, expecting a reliable and long lasting device like all pre-2016 MBPs. I personally would still have my 2014 MBP but I had to give it to my niece to do her online schoolwork because of COVID. Also the 15-16 inch form factor only is available as a “Pro.”

So, I’m torn. I really would like a desktop workstation for ergonomics and better productivity, including dual screens. I don’t really care that much about fan noise. I do worry about the machine getting hotter than 70 C on a regular basis doing regular tasks like browsing and email. I’m fine using it in clamshell mode a large portion of the time. It seems things aren’t too bad in that mode correct? But, I do need two displays regularly, including the webcam, so that means the machine will heat up especially with video conferencing (Zoom seems not bad but had a WebEx meeting and it got quite toasty).

Seeing as most of the issues seem to be due to the dGPU would you just recommend getting a MacBook Air instead (or the 14 inch when it comes out) and selling the 16? Seeing as Apple hasn’t even acknowledged this is a problem I don’t see a fix coming at all until the next generation of machines.

 

[bill-p]

You can try the MacBook Air, but when I got it in, it wasn't up to par driving my single 5K2K display.

Also... I have avoided saying this much but it actually got even hotter and louder than my 16" MacBook now.

I think the ideal 2-monitor setup for the 16" MacBook would probably be Thunderbolt 3 displays that you can daisy chain.

Or just get a single ultrawide display, I guess.

 

[Caldzera]

So I was fiddling around a litte bit. Well, I have a "solution" now, at least for me. With MacFans I let the fans run permanently on 2300 RPM, with Turbo Boost Switcher I disabled the TurboBoost of the CPU and set the external monitor, after it was finally recognized correctly today, to 1080p @60Hz. The temperature stays pretty constant at about 65° Celsius, fans are hardly audible. When I charge the MBP, I set the fans to 2600 RPM. Convenient looks a bit different, but at least the temperature and fan volume remain within a normal range. The dGPU is still at 18.9W.

 

[decipherkl]

So I was fiddling around a litte bit. Well, I have a "solution" now, at least for me. With MacFans I let the fans run permanently on 2300 RPM, with Turbo Boost Switcher I disabled the TurboBoost of the CPU and set the external monitor, after it was finally recognized correctly today, to 1080p @60Hz. The temperature stays pretty constant at about 65° Celsius, fans are hardly audible. When I charge the MBP, I set the fans to 2600 RPM. Convenient looks a bit different, but at least the temperature and fan volume remain within a normal range. The dGPU is still at 18.9W.

You may also like to turn off istat menus. You will easily get 5C+ lower for an equivalent load. You can already check fan RPM and CPU temperature in turbo booster switcher.

 

[niho]

Just adding some more related discussion

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1252991902820909057

Do you charge your MacBook on the left or right side? Turns out right is better | Hacker News

news.ycombinator.com

 

[slicktromboner]

Anyone know if there are updated video drivers in the 10.15.5 beta?

 

[Xpexe]

Confirm! Changing 60Hz to 55Hz on 2560x1440 fixed the issue. Power consumption is now around 5W which is fine.

Closed lid or no closed lid?

 

[Xpexe]

I added 40Hz and the miracle happened.

Is this in clamshell mode?

 

[Karel Štefan]

Anyone know if there are updated video drivers in the 10.15.5 beta?

No, there is no difference .

 

[recoil80]

Just adding some more related discussion

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1252991902820909057

Do you charge your MacBook on the left or right side? Turns out right is better | Hacker News

news.ycombinator.com

When in clamshell mode, I always charge on the left and connect the external display on the right.
So far, I haven't experienced any issues.

 

[PaladinGuy]

I don’t have the 16”, but my 13” MBP was doing this the other day. I restarted my computer, and it hasn’t done it again. Not sure if that would help you or not. Didn’t have time to read this whole thread, but thought I’d contribute. Sorry if others already suggested this or you’ve already done it.