(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[SnackTime]

The USB-C dongle is the one from Apple with the HDMI?

Could you connect your Monitor 2 with the USB-C dongle and HDMI in clamshell mode to see if the power consumption changes?

The USB-C dongle I am using is not from Apple. It is LASUNEY or some brand.
It has:
1x USB-C for power
1x USB-C for data
1x HDMI port
1x Ethernet
2x USB-A
card reader of some type.

To confirm, you'd like me to attach my 3440x1440 monitor to my USB-C dongle via HDMI and see if that changes anything power wise? If so...

For some reason, doing this really confused my MBP. It detected the display as being 122.5" and ran it's resolution at 7680x4320. Even still, Radeon High-Side was about 7-8W (lid closed - lid open about 18W). lol

 

[SawThings]

I received a base 16" today and am disappointed because it get's as hot as my 2017 with an external 4K monitor.

Is anybody else experiencing the same issue? I always work with external monitors and running on high resolution and this heating performance is upsetting. It's not cooler than the 2017 version in this respects.

Can you guys share your thoughts on this?

Thanks a lot!

I have the high pre-configed model of the 16" MBP and I run the newer lg 5k and SUPER hot all the time.
[automerge]1588710710[/automerge]

I have the high pre-configed model of the 16" MBP and I run the newer lg 5k and SUPER hot all the time.

I should add that the fan doesnt come on as much as I would have thought but the bar above the touch bar is always super hot...

 

[elbateria]

Yesterday arrived my brand new MBP16 i9 base and I'm really disappointed with thermal and power management. I plugged it in a Dell monitor 1920x1260 using an Apple HDMI-USB-Power Dongle (power attached separately in another USB-C).

When you use it in clamshell mode noise is noticeable (around 2500-2900 RPM) just browsing in Chrome and even in sleep mode. And when you struggle the processor it goes to 4000-5000 RPM in a breeze. But problem comes with the power throttle. With external monitor your are losing 10% performance just in a minute, probably more if test would continue.

Cause I use it clamshell 90% of time, I'm seriously thinking send it back to Apple and stay with my mid 2017 15.4". Drama is I love MBP16 as a laptop: keyboard, screen, speakers, size... but dGPU management is quite a disaster.

My primary use is professional web design and FCPX 4K around 8h day.

My last hope here is if buying a TB3 display like Benq P3220U I could solve it, or if Apple is working somehow in patch it.

 

[AFPBoy]

To confirm, you'd like me to attach my 3440x1440 monitor to my USB-C dongle via HDMI and see if that changes anything power wise? If so...

For some reason, doing this really confused my MBP. It detected the display as being 122.5" and ran it's resolution at 7680x4320. Even still, Radeon High-Side was about 7-8W (lid closed - lid open about 18W). lol

WOW!!! I had no idea the 16" MacBook Pro could increase the resolution of your monitor by 2.2325581395x. I'm definitely buying one now.

On the serious side, that is helpful. I was wondering if connection type affects power consumption given your two different results for your two different monitors when used in clamshell mode. From following this thread the results look all over the place with no consistent answer, other than changing the refresh rate can have an effect.

I am still *hoping* for this to be a software issue that can be resolved, but I'm holding off on purchasing a new laptop as long as I can. First it was about 2 years because of the keyboard, now it's because of the power consumption. Trusty 2013 15" MacBook Pro, don't fail me now!

 

[bill-p]

Even if it is a software issue (which should in theory be addressable), it's... AMD. My past experience with all AMD graphics since 2011 tells me one thing: never to expect any updated AMD driver on a Mac computer at all. What you get at launch is basically what you will forever have.

It's unfortunate, but... that's that. You might as well consider this a permanent problem if this is the case.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/dpzl7a
Honestly, the folks who are complaining about "fan noise" in the 16" MacBook probably will freak out if they hear my 5700XT at idle. The VII that I had before it was even worse.

 

[UltimateSyn]

Sorry to interject but.. without having looked too deeply into the issue being described and experienced here, is it presumed that the 13" MBP would have even more trouble powering an external 4K monitor due to its lack of dGPU? Or is this some sort of odd flukey problem specific to the new 16"s?

 

[elbateria]

Sorry to interject but, without having looked too deeply into the issue being described and experienced here, is it presumed that the 13" MBP would have even more trouble powering an external 4K monitor due to its lack of dGPU, or is this some sort of odd flukey problem specific to the new 16"s?

The dGPU management is a big cut of the problem. No dGPU is preferable in terms of noise and heat. Another part is the known heat issues with the i9, so 10th gen i5 and i7 should run cooler than 9th i9.

For non-intensive use: office, browsing, FCPX at 1080... you will probably get a better overall experience with the new 13".

Regards.

 

[dirteater666]

Yesterday arrived my brand new MBP16 i9 base and I'm really disappointed with thermal and power management. I plugged it in a Dell monitor 1920x1260 using an Apple HDMI-USB-Power Dongle (power attached separately in another USB-C).

When you use it in clamshell mode noise is noticeable (around 2500-2900 RPM) just browsing in Chrome and even in sleep mode. And when you struggle the processor it goes to 4000-5000 RPM in a breeze. But problem comes with the power throttle. With external monitor your are losing 10% performance just in a minute, probably more if test would continue.

Cause I use it clamshell 90% of time, I'm seriously thinking send it back to Apple and stay with my mid 2017 15.4". Drama is I love MBP16 as a laptop: keyboard, screen, speakers, size... but dGPU management is quite a disaster.

My primary use is professional web design and FCPX 4K around 8h day.

My last hope here is if buying a TB3 display like Benq P3220U I could solve it, or if Apple is working somehow in patch it.

yup that's the solution, just have to buy a config that's proven to work.

 

[bill-p]

Sorry to interject but.. without having looked too deeply into the issue being described and experienced here, is it presumed that the 13" MBP would have even more trouble powering an external 4K monitor due to its lack of dGPU? Or is this some sort of odd flukey problem specific to the new 16"s?

If you use a 4K monitor and you want to use it at "look like 2560 x 1440" resolution or any of the scaled resolution that's not a factor of x2, then the 13" won't be up to snuff. This is evident with full screen animations like when you open LaunchPad.

I know because I have the 13". If you want to use non-x2 scaled resolution on higher resolution displays, you really need an external GPU with it. Otherwise it's a pretty choppy experience.

I'm not sure if Intel's 10th gen processor will be able to solve that.

The 16" with a dedicated GPU doesn't have any problem at all.

 

[XNorth]

For giggles, I submitted a report for the Radeon Pro 5500M on AMD’s bug report page https://www.amdsurveys.com/se/5A1E27D23A3DE966

Curious what AMD would do if all of us Mac users actually flood them with bug reports on a form intended for Windows.

 

[bill-p]

I vaguely recall that as far back as when I first joined this community, people made a thread about something like that...

So yeah, I'd say good luck. Honestly, by the time AMD even notices that there's a problem, Apple will have already come out with a new 16" MacBook. People who don't have one will fawn over it. Those of us who have the old models will be... cautiously excited, and then decide to wait out another year. Then the next model will come a year later and a good number of us will happily ditch the old model, get the new one, and continue bickering about whether that next "issue" is really an "issue".

I feel truly old now that I have written that.

But let's just say... being nearly a decade here, I have seen enough threads like this one that never led anywhere.

 

[joelhinch]

I vaguely recall that as far back as when I first joined this community, people made a thread about something like that...

So yeah, I'd say good luck. Honestly, by the time AMD even notices that there's a problem, Apple will have already come out with a new 16" MacBook. People who don't have one will fawn over it. Those of us who have the old models will be... cautiously excited, and then decide to wait out another year. Then the next model will come a year later and a good number of us will happily ditch the old model, get the new one, and continue bickering about whether that next "issue" is really an "issue".

I feel truly old now that I have written that.

But let's just say... being nearly a decade here, I have seen enough threads like this one that never led anywhere.

I tend to agree and don't see this being fixed. Unfortunate that we cant have nVidia GPUs.
[automerge]1588734454[/automerge]
On another note. Is anyone experiencing the Kernel Panics with the dGPU ? I get them all the time, especially if the machine goes to sleep when dGPU is in use (i.e. in clamshell) it wont wake, it will crash and reboot. Apparently a known issue, Apple Support knew about it straight away when I mentioned it. "Engineers are aware and looking into it". But if they ever fix the Panic issue, I doubt it will fix the wattage issue.

I just don't accept this kind of quality, software or hardware, in a $5k AUD machine - to be honest.

 

[MrGimper]

I've hooked my 16" up to my Acer 4K monitor via the apple official HDMI dongle and set it as scaled 2560x1440 (my iMac is normally hooked up to this monitor over DP at the same scale).

Radeon High Side is fluctuating around 20w while I'm just doing casual stuff. CPU at 60% and fans at 2700.

My home office has ambient noise from a couple of home servers running, so noise isn't an issue, but the heat is potentially.

Did I read someone tried this in bootcamp and didn't experience issues? This would indicate a macOS software issue in some form if true. I'm running Catalina 10.15.5 beta 3

P.S. I'm running on battery and it's destroying it.... 1:15 on battery and down to 53%

 

[schertlerbombe]

Did I read someone tried this in bootcamp and didn't experience issues?

Windows has similar issues:

Internal alone: the default resolution of 3072x1920 and the next 2 lower ones available result in 14watt gpu idle,
2048x1280 reduces the power draw to 3watts.
Internal+external: 14watts idle
External alone: (3840x2160, 60hz usb-c to usb-c LG 27850-w) 3watts

Not even the most used/default resolution of the internal screen works properly....

edit: Lets spam amd and apple support !

 

[Abaganov]

For all the people trying to bypass this issue with all kinds of different tricks etc.. we didn't pay $2500 and up for having to jump throw hoops just to be able to connect our laptop to a freaking monitor. this sucks

 

[MrGimper]

For all the people trying to bypass this issue with all kinds of different tricks etc.. we didn't pay $2500 and up for having to jump throw hoops just to be able to connect our laptop to a freaking monitor. this sucks

I don't think people are jumping through hoops, I think it's more an interest in diagnosing where the problem may lie and then if it's fixable.

 

[Abaganov]

I don't think people are jumping through hoops, I think it's more an interest in diagnosing where the problem may lie and then if it's fixable.

yeah that's my point. we should not try and figure this simple thing that suppose to work out of the box for such a premium and costly device

 

[Surf760]

In fairness to the 16" MBP, which I'd love to have, I think much of these external display complaints are at least 50% OS caused issues. I'm using a 2018 13" i5 MBP, with a Radeon 5700 Razer Chroma eGPU hooked up to an external HP 4k Envy display. Ever since adding the eGPU about 6 weeks ago, I get at least 2-3 "Bad Magic" or "CPU Panic" crashes a week. I didn't previously have that issue without the eGPU.

It's been a very disappointing experience. But the 13" was terrible to run an external 4k display with. Without the eGPU even running expose would cause frame loss/screen tearing where the moving windows would pause and jump.

There is something about TB3 that Catalina gets its brains fried by.

 

[elbateria]

- The infamous kernel panic shows everytime you put the macbook to sleep more than 30'.
- dGPU draws 20W just plugging an external display.
- 2200-2500rpm just browsing and 60ºC idle.
- Noticeable throttle shows up after a few seconds in medium-to-intensive use. At this point RPM are over 5500rpm.

Busy days in MacOS engineering department.

 

[ToBro114]

I just got my 16 inch MacBook Pro and have the same issue.



This is my setup:

MacBook Pro (16 inch, 2019)

2,4 GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9

32 GB 2667 MHz DDR4

AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 4 GB

Intel UHD Graphics 630 1536 MB

with

Kensington TB3 Dock

with

LG 32 inch 4k display via Display Port



My tests results match what others where saying:



The MacBook 16 inch is staying cool when I use it only with internal monitor, or if I use my external 4k monitor with MacBook in Clamshell mode (display closed).

The graphics card is struggling, if I use both an external 4k monitor and the MacBook’s internal monitor and use high resolutions, e.g. 3360 x 1890 (HiDPI)

When I choose 3360 x 1890 in low DPI for the external display, the graphics card relaxes and the system cools down.



Even with HiDPI resolution the load of the system isn’t high and it’s only at around 65°C, but the fans still go crazy at around 4000 - 5000 rpm.



To summarize: The performance is very nice, but the fans go crazy when the graphics card needs to power an external 4k monitor together with the internal monitor.



I reported it to Apple and will report it to AMD, too.

 

[marlowja]

Hi all, I currently have a 5K Thunderbolt Display that I'm currently using with my dying 12in Macbook over USB-C. I'm considering the 16in MBP - I would mostly be using it in clamshell, connected to the monitor over Thunderbolt.

Is my understanding that the GPU issue is more of an issue for multiple monitors and DP/HDMI connections? Should it be fine for my use case? If not, I assume the 2020 MacBook Air integrated graphics would probably be a better bet than the base 2020 13in MBP right?

 

[ToBro114]

Hi all, I currently have a 5K Thunderbolt Display that I'm currently using with my dying 12in Macbook over USB-C. I'm considering the 16in MBP - I would mostly be using it in clamshell, connected to the monitor over Thunderbolt.

Is my understanding that the GPU issue is more of an issue for multiple monitors and DP/HDMI connections? Should it be fine for my use case? If not, I assume the 2020 MacBook Air integrated graphics would probably be a better bet than the base 2020 13in MBP right?

Using it in clamshell works fine for me.

 

[AFPBoy]

Is my understanding that the GPU issue is more of an issue for multiple monitors and DP/HDMI connections?

If by multiple displays you mean the internal and an external screen at the same time, then yes, it is a problem.

However, I'm not sure how often people have problems with high power draw in clamshell mode (where for me high power is >5 W at idle). I think it's not often. One reason I'm not confident is that some users are using fan noise and temperature as their indictor, but I prefer power draw from a software tool because it should be less biased.

 

[alexweej]

Also seeing 18W Radeon usage and fans at 3300-4000rpm just by plugging my external display in, not even running anything. On my 2016 MBP I would run my external display at 144Hz and have completely inaudible fans.

My external display is 2560x1080 (connected via USB-C/DisplayPort, but I've also tried HDMI, on both the left and right ports). If I run it with the lid closed at 60Hz, 120Hz, or 144Hz, the Radeon will pull 18-20W and fans go crazy. If I run it at any of the other refresh rates (50Hz, 59.88Hz, 74.88Hz, 99.88Hz) it pulls about 25% of that - 5W. *FOR THE SAME RESOLUTION!*

Even 5W seems to be too high for completely idle though.

At 1080p (1920x1080) I'm only offered 50Hz and 60Hz. Both pull about 4.3W and fans stay at like 2200rpm, barely noticeable but still not silent.

No matter what configuration I choose for the external display though, if I open the lid to use the built-in display and TrueTone/TouchID, it always jumps to 18-20W.

I've reset my SMC and NVRAM/PRAM several times.

I've upgraded from 10.15.4 to 10.15.5beta, because I saw that user @XNorth was using 10.15.5beta and has no issues. Curiously their GPU power draw reported here https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...r.2211747/page-49?post=28429823#post-28429823 was never less than 20W on (external+internal monitors) but still kept the fans in the low 2000s. I don't know how that's possible because 20W is a huge dissipation.

On other MBP models, people complain that even 3W draw is too much for an idle machine.

I'm 7 days in to my purchase, so this is likely going back under warranty and if it's not fixed, full refund!

 

[jc_9]

Are there any feedback from Apple about this?