(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[wegster]

I agree that dual monitor (internal and external) users are not a majority, but note that some users are reporting high power draw even in clamshell mode. Also, the fan issue seems to be an issue for some and not for others, possibly for different reasons (e.g. fans aren't spinning fast, or the noise doesn't bother them).

As for the high wattage, that just can't be good. I can't explain why this doesn't always result in higher temperatures, but I figure there's got to be more heat under those conditions, and I can't see that being good for internal components. I like to keep my Mac computers for a long time (5+ years), and I am concerned that this will significantly shorten their lifetimes.

I’m not so sure I agree at all with your first paragraph that external monitors are in the minority for MPB16 users.
Those that actually NEED a high-end ‘portable workstation’, vs those who ‘feel like they want’ the highest model, are different groups, and while there’s nothing wrong with either, consider the first group:
1. SW and HW engineers, developers, and related - typical desktop setup for YEARS has been driving multiple displays while running VMs (yes, some moving to cloud, but difficult to beat local dev, DB, ...). Need strong CPUs, high(er) RAM and enough power on the gfx card to at least drive 2-3 external displays.
2. CAD and related engineering - perhaps they can use clamshell mode, but certainly they need to drive high res external displays, and I’m not seeing how they’d be ‘wrong’ to expect to be able to use the built-in screen and external simumtaneously, whether the built-in is for zoomed views or simply keeping open email while leveraging the larger external(s) for design work.
3. Video, photographers, various other disciplines. Even Lightroom leverages multiple screens for loupe mode - should someone buy a second $$$ screen because the internal one and ONE $$$ external can’t get the job done because, well - Apple?
4. ANYONE doing presentations - display and share in presentation mode on the external screen, while keeping presenter mode or notes on the internal screen. Granted, sharing powerpoints doesn’t necessarily need a top end MacBook Pro, but if they overlap with any of the other reasons, it should certainly work while not making embarrassing jet engine sounds presenting to a live or remote audience.

I’m quite sure I’m missing lots of ‘multiple screen’ cases, but yes, this should indeed work sanely.

 

[HarryPot]

4. ANYONE doing presentations - display and share in presentation mode on the external screen, while keeping presenter mode or notes on the internal screen. Granted, sharing powerpoints doesn’t necessarily need a top end MacBook Pro, but if they overlap with any of the other reasons, it should certainly work while not making embarrassing jet engine sounds presenting to a live or remote audience.

This one is the most embarrassing of all.

Going to show work to a client, and getting the frequent comment of “oh, what a nice laptop”. But beware, in just 10 minutes they will completely change their opinion.

 

[HarryPot]

One thing I noticed today.

Using Turbo Boost Switcher, when I connect my external display and don't close the lid.
It takes a while to reach 3.5K fans RPM. I had to open Excel and start making some formulas for it to happen.

But what I saw is:

• Temperature never went above 58-59C.

Should Apple allow temps to go a little further to start kicking up the fans?
Or would doing this just give us a couple of extra minutes, and eventually the fans will start just the same?

 

[realies]

Apple should ask AMD to not change the GPU clock to its maximum when more than one high-resolution display is connected if at all possible and release a driver/firmware update. It goes from 190MHz to 1472MHz which spikes the GPU power consumption, the machine gets hot, the fans kick in, the CPU performance gets reduced and the battery starts being used while connected to mains.

 

[bill-p]

1. SW and HW engineers, developers, and related - typical desktop setup for YEARS has been driving multiple displays while running VMs (yes, some moving to cloud, but difficult to beat local dev, DB, ...). Need strong CPUs, high(er) RAM and enough power on the god card to at least drive 2-3 external displays.

As an aside, I am in this group. Still am when I'm at home now, but I swapped the 2x 27" to 1x 34" ultrawide display so I can keep everything on just one screen. Less of a headache when things "glitch", and also less of a headache dealing with multiple workspaces on two different screens.

But beyond that point, when I'm actually "working" per se, I can't expect the MacBook to be "silent". I compile code every 30 minutes on average. The task itself can take 5-10 minutes to run, then I gotta test the software and go right back to coding.

The point is... the MacBook 16" is fast enough to deal with multiple displays. Yes, it should not heat up and cause excessive noise during idle, but that's beside the point. My other work laptop is an HP Zbook G3. That thing never ever stops the fans. Never. As soon as you turn it on, it makes its presence known. In comparison, the 16" is like a kitten purring.

Also I disagree that presentation will be a problem. Like I said, I did a 3-hour Zoom call the other day. External display and everything. The fans were never more than 2300 - 2500RPM and though the computer was warm to the touch, it was quiet enough for me to hear everyone in the call.

Edit: also, if Airplay is a possibility for presentation:

I'm watching Netflix in Chrome. Typically, this would go to 2300RPM easily, but it's kind of chilly today. But even if it's not chilly, you can see in iStat that this kind of setup should not strain the 16" and is far easier than dealing with dongle life.

One thing I noticed today.

Using Turbo Boost Switcher, when I connect my external display and don't close the lid.
It takes a while to reach 3.5K fans RPM. I had to open Excel and start making some formulas for it to happen.

But what I saw is:

• Temperature never went above 58-59C.

Should Apple allow temps to go a little further to start kicking up the fans?
Or would doing this just give us a couple of extra minutes, and eventually the fans will start just the same?

I'd suggest again that you reset your SMC 3-4 times.

That is not normal.

My MacBook is currently seeing 65C on the CPU and the fans are at 1800RPM. Mine won't ramp up the fans at all unless it's reaching 70+.

 

[am2am]

My MacBook is currently seeing 65C on the CPU and the fans are at 1800RPM. Mine won't ramp up the fans at all unless it's reaching 70+.

Same here - fans are at min nearly silent with ~60C. With external monitor on and just casual work usually get around 50C-65C.

 

[HarryPot]

I'd suggest again that you reset your SMC 3-4 times.

That is not normal.

My MacBook is currently seeing 65C on the CPU and the fans are at 1800RPM. Mine won't ramp up the fans at all unless it's reaching 70+.

Same here - fans are at min nearly silent with ~60C. With external monitor on and just casual work usually get around 50C-65C.

I'll try doing the SMC reset again.
Right now my MBP is at 45C, and sitting with the fans at 1800RPM.

I opened a Virtual Machine, and temperature went to 65C and fans were still at 1800 RPM.

But if I connect an external display, fans start increasing speed at 50C. Temperature hovers around 60-65C, but fans are already at 3K constantly.

 

[HarryPot]

For the people that don't have problems while connected to external display and open lid, do you live in a cold area or have AC always on?

Today I'm using my MBP at my room, which is quite cool because of AC. And the idle temperatura of the CPU hasn't gone above 37-38C, it goes as low as 33C.

When I'm at a room with no AC, the idle temperatura is normally 45-50C.

 

[howardhsu]

16 MacBook Pro: Apple is Prioritizing Temperature Over Noise​

The fans spin up when connecting to an external display (don't have to be 4K) is a "new feature" for the 16'.

This will keep the 16' to run at a lower temperature than the previous models when the dGPU is used once you connect to a monitor. The fans also spin up when performing simple tasks.

Max has taken a deep dive into this problem:

and provide a solution!

So the fan noise is just a trade-off for the great performance of this machine.

Alternatively, you can choose the 2020 MacBook Pro 13' (with iGPU) and connects it with a large display with silent fans. If you want graphic performance, then hook up with an eGPU.

 

[bill-p]

For the people that don't have problems while connected to external display and open lid, do you live in a cold area or have AC always on?

Today I'm using my MBP at my room, which is quite cool because of AC. And the idle temperatura of the CPU hasn't gone above 37-38C, it goes as low as 33C.

When I'm at a room with no AC, the idle temperatura is normally 45-50C.

Nope. It's pretty warm where I am. Mine idles at 50+ Celsius almost all the time.

Here, did this for you guys. 1080p60 at scaled resolution, and yes the internal display is also on.

Fans do sound mildly loud. It does reach 3500RPM at times, but it's never annoyingly loud.

If I'm idling for a while, the fans eventually get to 2300 - 2500RPM and never go any lower, but they are not at all "loud" like this.

So just for an idea of what a "light load" plus "idle" situation would be for me when I'm opening the lid. The MacBook is certainly not as quiet as in clamshell, but I don't mind it. I do mind the slight loss of CPU performance when the lid is open, though. The CPU can't seem to sustain >2.8GHz constant load on all cores when the lid is open and an external display is connected.

P.S.: note I'm charging the MacBook now so temps may be inflated.

 

[wegster]

As an aside, I am in this group. Still am when I'm at home now, but I swapped the 2x 27" to 1x 34" ultrawide display so I can keep everything on just one screen. Less of a headache when things "glitch", and also less of a headache dealing with multiple workspaces on two different screens.

But beyond that point, when I'm actually "working" per se, I can't expect the MacBook to be "silent". I compile code every 30 minutes on average. The task itself can take 5-10 minutes to run, then I gotta test the software and go right back to coding.

The point is... the MacBook 16" is fast enough to deal with multiple displays. Yes, it should not heat up and cause excessive noise during idle, but that's beside the point. My other work laptop is an HP Zbook G3. That thing never ever stops the fans. Never. As soon as you turn it on, it makes its presence known. In comparison, the 16" is like a kitten purring.

Also I disagree that presentation will be a problem. Like I said, I did a 3-hour Zoom call the other day. External display and everything. The fans were never more than 2300 - 2500RPM and though the computer was warm to the touch, it was quiet enough for me to hear everyone in the call.

...

My MacBook is currently seeing 65C on the CPU and the fans are at 1800RPM. Mine won't ramp up the fans at all unless it's reaching 70+.

Similar setup - swapped what used to be 2x24" then 2x27" to one 34" UW-QHD, and now a 38" UW-QHD (+ open lid + IPP Pro Sidecar).

I've had the fans ramp up a # of times, usually with VMs running in the background.
Right now my #s are sitting similar to yours - CPU in mid-60s, fans 2-3K.
I do less traditional compiling of code nowadays, but more SQL and various VMs, scripts vs data sets, etc.

I can 'live' with it to date, and still really like the 16", but I do have concerns on longevity as we're starting out +20W on thermals by just plugging in an external display. I haven't yet tried adding my 34" also into the mix, but considering the 'nothing is replaceable' model we're now in - I'd really like to see things improved here.

I was reminded again of it when I had the MBP16 out on the deck yesterday - Intel GPU .1-.2W. Ouch.

I'm also cleaning an older 2011 MBP 15" to give to one of my wife's student's needing a laptop - non retina, but I had paid dearly to get to 16GB on it, put in a 1TB SSD which at the time was $$$, replaced the CD with a backup drive. It's actually still not a bad machine (for casual use,), and I'd even forgotten I'd had iStats, SwitchResX etc. running on it - sitting at ~10W total or so chugging away.

 

[bill-p]

Note that if you can live with clamshell, this is how mine idles (even considering slightly inflated temps due to charging):

So if I'm just using the MacBook by itself or with 1 display, and/or Airplay, it's totally okay. It's only when you have the lid open that you run into the extra thermal problem.

I'm not saying it's not a problem. Again. It is.

It's just that if you can get away with one ultrawide and just close the lid, then the computer is practically perfect.

 

[wegster]

@bill-p Just checked out the history on one of my fans. Seem like 7 days is more quickly understandable vs others (went to look as I'm eco-ing some stuff around and my fans were ramping up. What does yours look like?

 

[bill-p]

Here you go:

As you can tell, I don't touch the MacBook much during weekdays (gotta work on the other work-provided laptops). Weekend is when I have more time to sit down and do my own personal projects.

P.S.: Friday was when the 3-hour Zoom call happened. You can obviously tell when it happened as well.

 

[wegster]

Here you go: <snipped>

As you can tell, I don't touch the MacBook much during weekdays (gotta work on the other work-provided laptops). Weekend is when I have more time to sit down and do my own personal projects.

P.S.: Friday was when the 3-hour Zoom call happened. You can obviously tell when it happened as well.

Lol - and you can tell I'm working - nearly all the time.

Hmm. I may try an SMC reset myself and see if it improves any.

 

[bill-p]

Yeah, I can tell. I used to work as a contractor not too long ago and I had to use my own MacBook for work. Since then, I've gotten jobs where work provided me with computers, so now I just keep my MacBook for personal projects.

During weekends, you'd see me turn the MacBook on more if iStat also captured the Bootcamp side. I'd say my usage is probably around 80% Mac and 20% Windows (I do contribute to some open-source projects that have Windows ports).

I think your situation may be partially due to having the lid open. I almost exclusively leave my MacBook in lid-closed mode whenever I connect to an external monitor, and you can see my fans are very happy about that. I'd only open the lid when I need to do Zoom calls, but other than that, not for much else.

 

[wegster]

Yeah, I can tell. I used to work as a contractor not too long ago and I had to use my own MacBook for work. Since then, I've gotten jobs where work provided me with computers, so now I just keep my MacBook for personal projects.

During weekends, you'd see me turn the MacBook on more if iStat also captured the Bootcamp side. I'd say my usage is probably around 80% Mac and 20% Windows (I do contribute to some open-source projects that have Windows ports).

I think your situation may be partially due to having the lid open. I almost exclusively leave my MacBook in lid-closed mode whenever I connect to an external monitor, and you can see my fans are very happy about that. I'd only open the lid when I need to do Zoom calls, but other than that, not for much else.

So if I were only paid by the hour - I'd be retired. Can't complain (much)- very good $ but definitely questionable work/life balance as of late. Work does supply work gear, and I've got an 'adequate for Windows' 16GB Surfacebook Dell clone - but I'm more effective when on a Mac or Linux system, so it's my $ but I'm good using it for work as well. I do use all of the screens though, including the MBP's. I actually finally picked up an external camera to sit on top of the LG 38" mainly because I don't use the camera when it's pointing at the side of my face due to sitting diagonally on the right side of that wide LG.. but still want the MBP screen open..I'm finding I use touchID more than I expected to, as well as having the screen real estate.

Didn't realize you were lid closed - that brings me back to will try an SMC reset but not expecting much to happen there. I thought you were lid open which drove me to question my own fan history/speeds.

 

[alexweej]

I rejected a third (replacement) MBP 16" because I couldn't be bothered to spend the time testing it. Others have said they've been through 3 and not seen any improvement and just returned for a refund. It seems the 'working' ones are in an extreme minority given these facts!

 

[Appledoesnotlisten]

I rejected a third (replacement) MBP 16" because I couldn't be bothered to spend the time testing it. Others have said they've been through 3 and not seen any improvement and just returned for a refund. It seems the 'working' ones are in an extreme minority given these facts!

Do the 'working' ones really exist?
I am not sure.

 

[deergomoo]

I'm not sure if this has been linked earlier in the thread, but upon some quick Googling for "navi power draw multiple monitors" I found this reddit thread.

In particular, this comment suggests it's due to how the cards are designed. The person doesn't have anything backing up their claim, but it certainly seems logical to me. Other commenters point out that some Nvidia architectures have the same problem. The fact that the thread is about the same issue in standalone desktop cards makes me think that, not only will this not be addressed, but can't be. The GPU is simply working as designed, it's just that the way it's designed results in a lot of annoying heat and fan noise in a laptop form factor.

I think people who are not seeing the issue either have a monitor that for whatever reason can be driven in sync with the internal monitor, or they actually do have high power draw, but don't consider the heat and noise problematic.

I would be interested to see if running in clamshell mode with two identical monitors daisy-chained would exhibit the issue; my guess would be no.

I really hope I'm proven wrong here, but I'm no longer holding my breath for this to be patched out.

 

[AFPBoy]

I’m not so sure I agree at all with your first paragraph that external monitors are in the minority for MPB16 users.

I'm afraid you are partly mis-interpreting my post. I never said that the high power draw from using two monitors is not a problem. It absolutely is.

The first paragraph of my post is mainly speculation as to why Apple isn't treating this problem with higher priority, which I still think is that dual display users are in the minority. I am confident that most posters in this forum are above average users. Again, I am not suggesting that Apple should not fix the problem, just that they don’t see it as an issue that affects a majority of their customers.

For the record, I am totally number 4 in your post.

 

[Mattstrete]

this thread has become more about "there's an issue, let's continue to cry" rather than "there may be a solution, let's find it".

This is not a constructive post. Do you have a solution, other than to tell us to simply stick with clamshell mode?

And, to further address your comment that the people who have contributed to this thread are simply "crying" without attempting to find a solution: you will note that I, and others, have posted our observation that adjusting the refresh rate of an external display connected to our MBPs while in clamshell mode may result in a drop in GPU power draw. This is, in fact, a potential solution to a particular problem which many people are apparently experiencing. It also serves to show that there must be something wrong in the drivers and this observation may well lead to a bug fix. So, no, we are not simply continuing to "cry" without trying to find a solution.

 

[joelhinch]

This is not a constructive post. Do you have a solution, other than to tell us to simply stick with clamshell mode?

Agreed. Actually kind of sick of their posts telling everyone there’s no issue. Fact is some people want to use the MacBook Pro 16” with the lid open and connected to an external display, as it’s advertised to be able to do. Using 20w at idle is absurd and limits the processing of actual data through the GPU. It also limits the thermal headroom of the CPU. Just because I connected an external display. That’s unacceptable. If it’s by design then so should have the ability to let me use the iGPU when connected to external displays like in the 13” when I want to use my CPU to it’s full potential.

Not the best analogy but, I don’t buy a Ferrari to only drive 20km an hour when I add an extra passenger. I expect it to drive at the same speed or ever so slightly less than if I’m the only one on the car.

Why is this person here posting if you have no issues in your setup? This thread isn’t for you. It’s for the people who do.

 

[themcfly]

Agreed. Actually kind of sick of their posts telling everyone there’s no issue. Fact is some people want to use the MacBook Pro 16” with the lid open and connected to an external display, as it’s advertised to be able to do. Using 20w at idle is absurd and limits the processing of actual data through the GPU. It also limits the thermal headroom of the CPU. Just because I connected an external display. That’s unacceptable. If it’s by design then so should have the ability to let me use the iGPU when connected to external displays like in the 13” when I want to use my CPU to it’s full potential.

Not the best analogy but, I don’t buy a Ferrari to only drive 20km an hour when I add an extra passenger. I expect it to drive at the same speed or ever so slightly less than if I’m the only one on the car.

Why is this person here posting if you have no issues in your setup? This thread isn’t for you. It’s for the people who do.

I swear if I see another one posting the Max Tech video I'll probably kill myself...

 

[magbarn]

I'm not sure if this has been linked earlier in the thread, but upon some quick Googling for "navi power draw multiple monitors" I found this reddit thread.

In particular, this comment suggests it's due to how the cards are designed. The person doesn't have anything backing up their claim, but it certainly seems logical to me. Other commenters point out that some Nvidia architectures have the same problem. The fact that the thread is about the same issue in standalone desktop cards makes me think that, not only will this not be addressed, but can't be. The GPU is simply working as designed, it's just that the way it's designed results in a lot of annoying heat and fan noise in a laptop form factor.

I think people who are not seeing the issue either have a monitor that for whatever reason can be driven in sync with the internal monitor, or they actually do have high power draw, but don't consider the heat and noise problematic.

I would be interested to see if running in clamshell mode with two identical monitors daisy-chained would exhibit the issue; my guess would be no.

I really hope I'm proven wrong here, but I'm no longer holding my breath for this to be patched out.

I'm a PC gamer myself, and people have been complaining about Navi drivers for some time in Windows 10 causing excessive power draw with multi monitor use. The newer gen Nvidia cards sip less than 10 watts while the AMD cards pull closer to 30 watts. According to some this has been fixed on later Win10 Navi drivers, but I no longer have my 4700XT to test...