(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[Dhock_Holiday]

Today I called Apple multiple times to complain about the excessive dGPU wattage. I talked to 3 level-2 seniors and they told me different things. First guy said that the engineers are aware of the issue but can't say if its software-fixable or not, and actually hanged up the call while I was waiting. Second guy said the engineers are not aware and to just return the Macbook. Third guy opened a ticket for me with all my data above, will do a research for the status of the engineers awareness and will call me back monday before I decide to return the macbook or not.

Pretty much my experience as well, just depends on who you talk to. Will you be keeping it or sending it back?

 

[jc_9]

Pretty much my experience as well, just depends on who you talk to. Will you be keeping it or sending it back?

I'll wait for their "engineer report" next monday to decide. I'm very conflicted, the base Macbook pro 16" is still a great machine beside this issue but I might wait until their next refreshing if this issue gets hardware-fixed.

I'm thinking of returning it and try the new Dell XPS 17" when its available and test the thermals / performance with my 3 screens. But I really wanted to use MacOS this time.

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By the way, I never had any kernel panic issues with my setup, but I also only allowed the monitors to sleep when plugged in to the wall. The actual macbook never sleeps while plugged in.

 

[alexweej]

I have posted earlier saying that like the others I also have the extra dGPU power draw when connecting external displays but I thought the issue was bigger than it was, since I use 3 extra displays and the fans were not that loud when doing light use.

My 3 displays are:
- 1 x 1080p@60hz (Acer H274HL)
- 2 x 1440p@60hz (DELL U2717D)

Connected using:
- 1 x USB-C to HDMI (https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01M6C49X2)
- 2 x USB-C HDMI + USB3.0 + PD hub (https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B085NLTTLB)

View attachment 915147
(2 x 1440p@60hz + a USB keyboard on the left side, 1080p@60hz + Apple charger on the right side)

The only way I can get the dGpu to only draw ~7W is by plugging a SINGLE monitor at 1080p@60hz and closing the lid.

If I use a SINGLE monitor at 1440p@60hz, or connect a SECOND monitor at any resolution / refresh rate, lid opened / closed, I get ~18W.

If I use all 3 monitors with the lid closed, I get ~19W. Opening the lid gives me ~20W.

One of my HDMI dongle also have the USB-C Power delivery which I previously connected the Apple charger in so I can leave one port free on the Macbook.

What I found recently is that even though my 2 dongle-hubs are rated for 100W power delivery, it actually is limited to 50W. Now that I plug the Apple charger directly, the total used wattage is now higher while charging and the main temp never goes below 60°C, the fans stays at ~2700 RPM while only doing minimal browsing. Once the charging is complete for the same scenario, I get the same minimum 60°C but the fans runs at ~2300 RPM instead and becomes a little more acceptable.

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Today I called Apple multiple times to complain about the excessive dGPU wattage. I talked to 3 level-2 seniors and they told me different things. First guy said that the engineers are aware of the issue but can't say if its software-fixable or not, and actually hanged up the call while I was waiting. Second guy said the engineers are not aware and to just return the Macbook. Third guy opened a ticket for me with all my data above, will do a research for the status of the engineers awareness and will call me back monday before I decide to return the macbook or not.

@jc_9 what roughly is the ambient temperature of your room?

 

[jc_9]

@jc_9 what roughly is the ambient temperature of your room?

I keep the room at 21°C, not looking forward to this summer..! Casual browsing + one screen playing a 1080p video raises my numbers to ~70°C and ~3000 RPM, loud enough that I prefer using headphones instead of my desktop speakers :/

Also my left fan always run ~250RPM faster than the right one and consequently "Thunderbolt Left priority" is always ~5°C cooler than the right sensor. Same result no matter where the Apple charger is plugged in.

 

[malkovich87]

Ditto. I'm running the 16" i9 base model using a USB-C cable to connect to my U2720Q, and I have both screens on at the same time, also running Parallels off and on.

Very minimal fan noise over extended periods of time.

That's what I think is the weird thing here - we're running these on external 4k monitors without an issue and others have a full-HD screen sending their MBPs into vacuum cleaner mode :-/ Can this really be software-only?

 

[joelhinch]

I picked up a 13”
They had stock of the 2.3i7/32GB/2TB in stores. Although I’m sure i’d do just fine with the 2.0i5/32GB/1TB for what I do. My workflow uses a lot of RAM.

If you’re not constantly video editing and photo editing this thing is amazing. Handles The 2x 4K displays perfectly with the iGPU, no stress at all and obviously silent unless you really push the i7. Even under medium load it’s silent. Even handles the 2x 4K displays and 4k60p video editing reasonably too which I was surprised (obviously its not as good at the 5500M, but for every now and then its great).
[automerge]1589519571[/automerge]

By the way, I never had any kernel panic issues with my setup, but I also only allowed the monitors to sleep when plugged in to the wall. The actual macbook never sleeps while plugged in.

The panic issue happens while sleeping. Which is why you aren’t seeing it.

 

[hungryghosty]

Wow that review is very interesting... windows here i come ?

Presumably Windows laptops will have the same issue with noise/heat though when trying to run a 4K external display?

Or is there some fundamental different in MacOS or the Apple hardware which causes this behavoiur? I know the discrete GPU in the 16" makes this awkward to avoid but surely the 13" models are basically the same as any other Windows laptop with integrated Intel graphics?

 

[malkovich87]

Presumably Windows laptops will have the same issue with noise/heat though when trying to run a 4K external display?

Or is there some fundamental different in MacOS or the Apple hardware which causes this behavoiur? I know the discrete GPU in the 16" makes this awkward to avoid but surely the 13" models are basically the same as any other Windows laptop with integrated Intel graphics?

Windows laptops have gotten a lot quieter over the years. I never heard the fans of my Surface Book 2, for example.

That said: I have the suspicion that the fan noise issue is caused by certain monitors. I’m not the first person in this thread who’s said that there’s no issue with the Dell U2720Q (4K, 60hz). I worked five hours in front of mine today and the fan never turned up beyond baseline. I literally couldn’t hear it.

My i9 5500 is dead quiet during low-power tasks, such as running Excel in Parallels etc. YouTube videos, low-level photo editing in Lightroom etc. it does spin up when batch processing photos or when transferring large numbers of files. But it’s supposed to do that tbh. Anything else would worry me.

 

[hirondelle]

Hi!

Thanks for that long thread.

I have the same issues with my 16'inch Macbook Pro. I'm using two screens (DELL U2719DC and U2715H) connected with Display Port to a CalDigit USB-C Pro Dock and I'm using the Mac lid open (because well I like Touch ID).

The fan noise was awful on the first Mac and on the new one I have after returning the first one the problem seems a bit more bearable (fans speed: around 2500/2600) even though still annoying.

The excessive dGPU wattage is still there though. I'm not even using 4K screens like you lot…

I've opened a feedback to warn Apple. Did not call the support yet since I've never had any good advice (support level 1) but I might do it also if it can help raise awareness on that issue.

 

[Camarillo Brillo]

I got a bit frustrated with apple support asking me for more and more logs and screenshots and recordings of the issue.

What am I, your guinnea pig? Is that why I spent 3k on this machine?

Is it really possible that they never once plugged a 16" into a couple different external monitors to see how it performs?

Why do they need me to do it for them and spend hours on the phone relaying information? Do they really not have a 16" and a monitor laying around to try it themselves???

This is the kind of thing that makes me less optimistic about a fix coming...

 

[MrGimper]

I got a bit frustrated with apple support asking me for more and more logs and screenshots and recordings of the issue.

What am I, your guinnea pig? Is that why I spent 3k on this machine?

Is it really possible that they never once plugged a 16" into a couple different external monitors to see how it performs?

Why do they need me to do it for them and spend hours on the phone relaying information? Do they really not have a 16" and a monitor laying around to try it themselves???

This is the kind of thing that makes me less optimistic about a fix coming...

It's probably because you're the one who wants help?

 

[Camarillo Brillo]

Of course.

And after spending hours on the phone speaking with multiple reps and sending logs and screen sharing and all that, when they ask me to do it again, that's when I get frustrated. What did they do with all the data I already gave them? I know I'm not the only one with this problem either. It gives me the feeling they're just collecting data to take up my time, and wear me out on the service calls so I learn to just live with it, with no plans to fix it.

 

[bomby0]

Yeah, seems like it's the Apple way these days unfortunately until there's a class action lawsuit coming...

The external monitor issue is literally the longest threads both here and at the apple.com Macbook Pro forums. It's impossible they don't know about it and are just stalling people to get them frustrated.

Anyone experiencing the issue that just got their 16" Macbook Pro should just return their 16" Macbook Pro until there's a fix

 

[hirondelle]

It's really frustrating. The 16" is great and the new 13" seems quite expensive in comparison… But I'm quite tempted to ditch the 16" while I still can and go for the new 13" even though it's less powerful.

It really sucks because otherwise it's a great computer and I really like it…

I'm still hoping it could be fixed or that I could live with the extra noise and heat. I guess I could get use to it… while praying it will be fixed.

 

[bill-p]

Presumably Windows laptops will have the same issue with noise/heat though when trying to run a 4K external display?

Or is there some fundamental different in MacOS or the Apple hardware which causes this behavoiur? I know the discrete GPU in the 16" makes this awkward to avoid but surely the 13" models are basically the same as any other Windows laptop with integrated Intel graphics?

Apple's implementation of scaled resolutions is hugely inefficient compared to Windows. It's basically a brute force method of rendering at a higher resolution and then scaling everything to fit the lower resolution. The extra scaling is what kills the 13". I know because I have a 13".

Windows 10 does scaling better and can do in-between scaling steps at native resolution. But Windows' scaling method has to be defined by the application, and doesn't work universally. Apple's scaling method works universally.

So there are pros and cons. Choose the one that works, I guess.

As an aside...

I keep thinking perhaps I have to keep posting these screens every few days. People keep acting like this issue affects everyone and all setups. It doesn't.

The bottom line is... everybody is different. It seems to me that the folks who are running into this fan noise and heat issue are those that can't run with just one monitor at a time. Granted, they have a fair case and they should complain, but again, this issue does not affect everyone. Should be fine with an ultrawide in clamshell, or just by itself, which is my use case.

I don't see kernel panics either. I leave my MacBook Pro 16 overnight every time and in the morning, I hit my space key to wake the MacBook up while it's still connected to the display. Works every time. Works even under Bootcamp. Most Windows 10 laptops I tried couldn't do this. USB wake is what works, which means I constantly had to have the Logitech receiver plugged into the laptop to wake it. Oh, and automatic wake when connected to Thunderbolt 3 display while in clamshell also seems to be another Mac-exclusive thing.

 

[akbarali.ch]

I had this suspicion, but since you guys are talking about made me believe. I have a rather old setup. MacBook Pro Mid 2012 connected to Thunderbolt Display. It's perpetually hot. Even with a web browser, I can hear the fans running all time.

 

[mrmachine79]

I keep thinking perhaps I have to keep posting these screens every few days. People keep acting like this issue affects everyone and all setups. It doesn't.

It does affect everyone who doesnt want to give up the user of they internal display, keyboard, trackpad, and touchid. To buy another external display, keyboard and trackpad is expensive, and there is no option to buy external touchid. Just because you are happy to live with these limitations does not negate the existence of the problem which affects every mbp 16".

 

[HarryPot]

I just receives my MBP 16"!

So far so good. I'm currently installing tons of apps and downloading my iCloud Drive, and no noise at all.
It fells a little warm, but not much more than my previous MBP 13".

I'll post tomorrow to see how it goes with an external monitor.

 

[alexweej]

I had this suspicion, but since you guys are talking about made me believe. I have a rather old setup. MacBook Pro Mid 2012 connected to Thunderbolt Display. It's perpetually hot. Even with a web browser, I can hear the fans running all time.

Look up how to take the bottom panel off and clean the dust out of your fans with compressed air. Should improve things for you.

 

[Capt Crunch]

Add me to the list. 3000 rpm on both fans with a base 16" MBP in clamshell mode and 2 5K monitors. Makes the room hot over time. Really frustrating because I sold my iMac for this.

 

[elbateria]

I just receives my MBP 16"!

So far so good. I'm currently installing tons of apps and downloading my iCloud Drive, and no noise at all.
It fells a little warm, but not much more than my previous MBP 13".

I'll post tomorrow to see how it goes with an external monitor.

Without external monitor is great. But when you plug it the silence is over.

 

[HarryPot]

Without external monitor is great. But when you plug it the silence is over.

Yep, indeed.
Just tried connecting an external display and fans came, quite noticeable.

I almost never use an external display, so it's not that big of a deal for me.
Just when giving out presentation to clients and connecting to projectors or TVs. But I'll use the TurboBoost switcher in those cases I guess.

My room is currently at around 75-77 F, so it might not help much either.

 

[Appledoesnotlisten]

Add me to the list. 3000 rpm on both fans with a base 16" MBP in clamshell mode and 2 5K monitors. Makes the room hot over time. Really frustrating because I sold my iMac for this.

It's going to be a worse nightmare with summer temperatures.

 

[uniden]

Have you guys seen this video regarding this issue?
[Youtube] - How to FIX your 16” MacBook Pro - (Don’t Return it)

1st helpful app: https://gfx.io/
2nd app you NEED: https://a.paddle.com/v2/click/114/297...
3nd one: http://tbswitcher.rugarciap.com/

Looks like a viable explanation and solution to me. I ordered a 16" thinking everything was perfect in Appleville finally. After I placed the order I learned all is not well. That video and the suggestions at least sets me at ease that when my new MBP arrives soon that I will be able to tune this to where it's okay. If any of you try this out I'd like to know your feedback. I'm a week or so away from mine arriving. I normally run with one or two external displays. 3840x1600.

 

[bill-p]

It does affect everyone who doesnt want to give up the user of they internal display, keyboard, trackpad, and touchid. To buy another external display, keyboard and trackpad is expensive, and there is no option to buy external touchid. Just because you are happy to live with these limitations does not negate the existence of the problem which affects every mbp 16".

I just got off of a 3-hour Zoom call. My 16" was open with the 34" 5K connected. Radeon high side on at 20W. Ambient room temp at 23 Celsius. The fans never broke past 2300RPM and was completely inaudible over other people speaking.

And I was looking at websites, opening up spreadsheets, and doing other things at the same time.

That usage still works for me when I need it to, and it still doesn't make the fans go full blast, temps go crazy or any of the things that are being reported.

I'm not saying there is no fault. I'm saying it doesn't affect everyone (blanket). It obviously affects you and many others, but honestly, I don't think you guys represent the majority. How many people need to get the 16" MacBook Pro specifically just so they can use it lid-open while connected to a bunch of external monitors?