(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[James Ritson]

Hi, just registered to chime in with another experience. I'm working from home with my MacBook Pro, it's a 16" with Navi GPU (5500M).

I was previously using a Samsung CHG70 which does 2560x1440 at 144Hz. In clamshell mode, the MacBook is very quiet—never tested with the lid open to be honest. However, I also live stream using a Windows PC with a 4k60 capture card, and with this "display" connected as well the fans go into overdrive within a couple of minutes. I presumed it was because the GPU was working overtime with display mirroring, especially because it was sending 3840x2160 60hz to the capture card and then sending an entirely different 2560x1440 144hz signal to my monitor.

However, I've just received an Acer XV273K—this thing is a beast as it does 3840x2160 120hz over DisplayPort, which I am actually able to achieve within macOS, you just need SwitchResX to toggle over to the higher refresh rate (it's not exposed anywhere within the macOS Display settings). I'm using it at a scaled resolution to get a logical workspace resolution of 5120x2880.

In 120hz mode, however, I've observed that the Radeon High Side power draw goes up to 20W on average (usually slightly higher), which as you guessed it results in higher temperatures and the fans speeding up very quickly. I didn't think it would bother me, but having audible fans whilst working all day isn't actually a great experience...

If I toggle back down to 60hz (so still running at 5120x2880 internally), Radeon High Side goes down to 7-8W. I'm not sure, is this still considered slightly high for an idle machine? E.g. all I have running is Safari and Slack at the moment.

Moving down to 3840x2160 60hz (so the actual resolution of the monitor, no internal scaling) has Radeon High Side at 6-7W on average, although it will go down to just above 5W.

What I've discovered, however, is that any high DPI resolution with 120hz increases the Radeon High Side to 20W regardless of how small. For example, I can use SwitchResX to display at 1280x720 logical high DPI, which is 2560x1440 physical and the power draw remains high at 20W. Surely that has to be a bug?

I even went the other direction and pushed the internal resolution to 8K at 120hz (so 3840x2160 logical, 7680x4320 physical). No extra power draw, it remained at 20W.

Basically, the conclusion I've come to at the moment is that if I want to run at 120hz (once you go high refresh rate, it's hard to go back!) I have to put up with significantly higher power draw and therefore fan noise. My only alternatives are running a 120hz monitor at 60hz, which is kind of rubbish, or using an eGPU which I've borrowed from work—but the Vega 64 in that is quite noisy anyway...

Just wondering @rhashem — I had a look but couldn't find anywhere in SwitchResX to set custom refresh rates for scaled (high DPI) resolutions. Do you know if that's possible?

Thanks all for reading!

 

[deergomoo]

I'm occasionally seeing kernel panics when waking from sleep. Kinda annoying as macOS (more like Mac OS X) was once a pillar of stability.

It's more than occasional for me, I've had it happen five or six times in the past two weeks, even when it's not connected to anything.

 

[joelhinch]

It's more than occasional for me, I've had it happen five or six times in the past two weeks, even when it's not connected to anything.

Yeah I have them daily. I save the exports as well as send to them to Apple.

Apple continue to tell me a fix is coming in a future software update.

 

[AFPBoy]

Here is a data point that I hope helps someone. My 2019 16” with 5300 GPU was showing 17-18W with my external 2560x1440@60 HZ display. (Plugged into HP G2 TB3 dock via DisplayPort-DisplayPort.)

I've seen docks associated with increased power draw in clamshell mode a few times. Out of curiosity, did you ever try it without one?

 

[matthewadams]

Nothing official back from AMD on mine, but filed with both AMD and via Apple Feedback.

Apple Feedback for MBP: https://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html

This form is deprecated if I'm not mistaken.
Best to use https://feedbackassistant.apple.com for Feedback (and select macOS + Graphics) so QA can actually take a look and prioritise.

 

[James Ritson]

Hey, just an update to my post above, I ended up adding some custom resolutions using 3840x2160 with a variety of refresh rates—e.g. 100hz, 110hz, 115hz and even 117hz.

The actual refresh rate that's exposed to macOS registers as 119.88hz. I tried to add 120hz exactly but SwitchResX reported that as invalid.

Anyway, to the point—even running my display at 117hz (so just under the actual 119.88hz) using 5120x2880 internal resolution brings Radeon High Side down to 9-11W on average. This is much more in-line with what I would expect, given that it averages 7-8W with a 60hz refresh.

So who knows ?‍♂️ driver/software bug? All I can say is thanks @rhashem for the tip—I can now idle around macOS without annoying fan noise in the background. Maybe others should try some kind of arbitrary refresh rate through SwitchResX to see if it works around the large power draw? E.g. if your display's refresh rate reports as 60hz or 59.9hz try a custom refresh rate of 58hz?

 

[c0ppo]

Few days ago I've received MBP 16, almost fully loaded. I will have it just for the side project, and then return it back. My main device now is Thinkpad X1E.

Now, I've tried MBP 16 with 34" ultrawide (HP 340c), and at home I got a brand new LG Ultrafine 5K + Dell u2713.
I've tried various scenarios, but fans remain silent. MBP gets a little warm to the touch, but that's to be expected. But no fan noise at all, unless I'm pushing it hard.

X1E is the same with same setup. No fan noise at all. And I'm really sensitive about fan noise. I even tried hearing fans by getting my ear next to the MBP/X1E, but nothing. Dead silence from both devices.

I tried a few pages in this thread to search how to see what W my GPU uses when connected to the display. Couldn't find any app. Can anyone help me out here, so I can test that as well?

EDIT:
Device isn't in clamshell, internal screen is open and used.

 

[AFPBoy]

Few days ago I've received MBP 16, almost fully loaded. I will have it just for the side project, and then return it back. My main device now is Thinkpad X1E.

Now, I've tried MBP 16 with 34" ultrawide (HP 340c), and at home I got a brand new LG Ultrafine 5K + Dell u2713.
I've tried various scenarios, but fans remain silent. MBP gets a little warm to the touch, but that's to be expected. But no fan noise at all, unless I'm pushing it hard.

X1E is the same with same setup. No fan noise at all. And I'm really sensitive about fan noise. I even tried hearing fans by getting my ear next to the MBP/X1E, but nothing. Dead silence from both devices.

I tried a few pages in this thread to search how to see what W my GPU uses when connected to the display. Couldn't find any app. Can anyone help me out here, so I can test that as well?

EDIT:
Device isn't in clamshell, internal screen is open and used.

I believe people are using iStat Menus (https://bjango.com/mac/istatmenus/) to measure wattage, but please wait for an actual user to confirm in case I'm wrong.

I have a Dell U2713HM and would really like to purchase a MBP16 soon, so I will be following your results closely. Can you tell me what cable you are using to connect you MacBook Pro to your monitor, especially the Dell?

 

[c0ppo]

I believe people are using iStat Menus (https://bjango.com/mac/istatmenus/) to measure wattage, but please wait for an actual user to confirm in case I'm wrong.

I have a Dell U2713HM and would really like to purchase a MBP16 soon, so I will be following your results closely. Can you tell me what cable you are using to connect you MacBook Pro to your monitor, especially the Dell?

Dell is connected to amazon basics tb3 dock via DP2DP cable. That dock is then connected to MBP16 of course.
My 340c ultrawide is connected via DP2usb-c cable, and of course, LG 5K is connected via thunderbolt 3 directly to MBP.

Just checked iStat menus, and they show everything in a really nice style.
Radeon 5500M is using 20.4W

But still, no noise at all. But laptop is warm to the touch. CPU is on 62C, while GPU is 60C.
That's actually quite high IMHO. For example, in the exact same setup, my X1E is averaging around 55C with CPU, and 47C for GPU (nVidia 1650).

 

[weathermood]

Dell is connected to amazon basics tb3 dock via DP2DP cable. That dock is then connected to MBP16 of course.
My 340c ultrawide is connected via DP2usb-c cable, and of course, LG 5K is connected via thunderbolt 3 directly to MBP.

Just checked iStat menus, and they show everything in a really nice style.
Radeon 5500M is using 20.4W

But still, no noise at all. But laptop is warm to the touch. CPU is on 62C, while GPU is 60C.
That's actually quite high IMHO. For example, in the exact same setup, my X1E is averaging around 55C with CPU, and 47C for GPU (nVidia 1650).

Interesting. Do you mind sharing what fans RPM does your iStat show while no apps running, just being idle with monitors connected for at least 10mins?

Results I get with 5k ultra fine connected via TB3:

No external display: <4.2W GPU, 46°C CPU 1840 RPM Clamshell: 4.9W GPU, 48°C CPU 1840 RPM Non-Clamshell: 18.7W GPU, 60°C CPU, 2783 RPM - pretty audible

 

[Camarillo Brillo]

To c0ppo - how long have you left your computer in this configuration?

I get the same thing at first - and I don't think 62C is that hot, considering that unchecked mine will go into the 90s with a similar configuration - it just takes a little time for things to warm up.

Just plugging in the external and looking at istat really quick doesn't tell you the whole story. What happens after 30 minutes? an hour? What happens under any sort of load?

 

[Dhock_Holiday]

Dell is connected to amazon basics tb3 dock via DP2DP cable. That dock is then connected to MBP16 of course.
My 340c ultrawide is connected via DP2usb-c cable, and of course, LG 5K is connected via thunderbolt 3 directly to MBP.

Just checked iStat menus, and they show everything in a really nice style.
Radeon 5500M is using 20.4W

But still, no noise at all. But laptop is warm to the touch. CPU is on 62C, while GPU is 60C.
That's actually quite high IMHO. For example, in the exact same setup, my X1E is averaging around 55C with CPU, and 47C for GPU (nVidia 1650).

Its been my experience with my gaming pc's that Nvidia GPU's run considerably cooler than their AMD counterparts. Its a shame we never got web drivers for the RTX cards in macOS

 

[c0ppo]

Interesting. Do you mind sharing what fans RPM does your iStat show while no apps running, just being idle with monitors connected for at least 10mins?

Results I get with 5k ultra fine connected via TB3:

No external display: <4.2W GPU, 46°C CPU 1840 RPM Clamshell: 4.9W GPU, 48°C CPU 1840 RPM Non-Clamshell: 18.7W GPU, 60°C CPU, 2783 RPM - pretty audible

Will share next day, it's midnight here, so expect my results in the morning (europe).

To c0ppo - how long have you left your computer in this configuration?

I've worked for few hours, and then just watched youtube and browsed forums. So not just 30mins, but a bit longer.
Will test everything out next day as well.

I get the same thing at first - and I don't think 62C is that hot, considering that unchecked mine will go into the 90s with a similar configuration - it just takes a little time for things to warm up.

Honestly, I neve install benchmarks or run tests. I don't see the point, unless I'm trying to see if everything works. This is the only reason I have installed iStat menus at all. I'm not planing on keeping MBP 16, it's not mine, just got it for one programming job, and will return it afterwards. Plan on sticking with my X1E for a while.

But for me, 60c+ is a lot. For example, my X1E is rather silent. But when CPU is 60c+, I can hear the fans. Not loud, but audible. So GPU with 60C is extreme. X1E isn't a gaming device, just like MBP isn't. But occasionally I will play CS:GO. X1E can handle something like cs:go without any problem. But GPU will be in 70C+ with that game running on FHD and ultra settings. 62C without gaming is way too much. But I'm not a hardware nerd, I know basics and what I want. So maybe I'm mistaken here.

But will post screenshots of any results you guys may find interesting or helpful.

 

[joelhinch]

Will share next day, it's midnight here, so expect my results in the morning (europe).



I've worked for few hours, and then just watched youtube and browsed forums. So not just 30mins, but a bit longer.
Will test everything out next day as well.



Honestly, I neve install benchmarks or run tests. I don't see the point, unless I'm trying to see if everything works. This is the only reason I have installed iStat menus at all. I'm not planing on keeping MBP 16, it's not mine, just got it for one programming job, and will return it afterwards. Plan on sticking with my X1E for a while.

But for me, 60c+ is a lot. For example, my X1E is rather silent. But when CPU is 60c+, I can hear the fans. Not loud, but audible. So GPU with 60C is extreme. X1E isn't a gaming device, just like MBP isn't. But occasionally I will play CS:GO. X1E can handle something like cs:go without any problem. But GPU will be in 70C+ with that game running on FHD and ultra settings. 62C without gaming is way too much. But I'm not a hardware nerd, I know basics and what I want. So maybe I'm mistaken here.

But will post screenshots of any results you guys may find interesting or helpful.

If you’re seeing 20w with the lid open and connected to an external Display. You’re seeing the same issue as everyone else.

The fan noise is irrelevant. High wattage on idle is the issue and the constant. Everyone’s ambient temperature is going to be a variable and affect fan spin, temperature and noise.

 

[hungryghosty]

Does this same issue also affect the 13" Macbook Pro or is it just the 16" because of it switching to the discrete GPU? I'm considering buying a Macbook Pro 13" 2020 and I often use my 12" Macbook open whilst connected to an external monitor.

Fan noise isn't currently an issue, as the 12" model doesn't have one!, but it would annoy me if were as I use my Macbook connected to an external display about 2/3rds of the time.

 

[malkovich87]

Weirdly, mine is fairly quiet with the U2720Q attached and the MBP charging over the single USB-C cable. Worked on it all day and only heard the fans come on when running half an hour worth of Windows updates in Parallels.

 

[Dhock_Holiday]

Does this same issue also affect the 13" Macbook Pro or is it just the 16" because of it switching to the discrete GPU? I'm considering buying a Macbook Pro 13" 2020 and I often use my 12" Macbook open whilst connected to an external monitor.

Fan noise isn't currently an issue, as the 12" model doesn't have one!, but it would annoy me if were as I use my Macbook connected to an external display about 2/3rds of the time.

A YouTuber ran a test on the thermals of the new 13 inch MBP and it looks the fans do ramp up under load. Temperatures can get pretty high if your using a high resolution display. Still usable but your not going to get the quiet fan-less experience of the Macbook. Might have to sit tight until we get those ARM MacBooks in the next 2-3 years.

 

[Salomonander]

A YouTuber ran a test on the thermals of the new 13 inch MBP and it looks the fans do ramp up under load. Temperatures can get pretty high if your using a high resolution display. Still usable but your not going to get the quiet fan-less experience of the Macbook. Might have to sit tight until we get those ARM MacBooks in the next 2-3 years.

Wow that review is very interesting... windows here i come ?

 

[malkovich87]

Wow that review is very interesting... windows here i come ?

I sure do love the finless performance of my i5 Surface Pro 7 - but hate absolutely everything else about it

 

[HarryPot]

I'm receiving my MBP 16" tomorrow. Let's see how it goes.
I use a Samsung 27" 1080p external monitor, connected using HDMI and the Apple dongle to convert to USB-C.

From what I reading, it being a 1080p display shouldn't be a problem right?

 

[alexweej]

Nice setup!

Re your question - not exactly the same test you did, but I was posting istats results after approx 30min of light use with external monitor - both fans were at minimum (overall temp increased 10-15 st C):
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-mbp-i7-or-i9.2212684/post-28036911
You have super wide monitor, I've been testing on standard 4k - this may cause different results.

I may try 30mins with 1920x1080 YouTube on external 4k monitor during weekend. I'll report back if I do this.

Do you have any idea how warm your room is generally? As I said earlier my room is like astonishingly hot almost all year round. Cooling a 60 degree component with 18 degree air is going to be less fan speed than doing it with 27 degree air (my flat...)!

Thanks

 

[crouch]

Weirdly, mine is fairly quiet with the U2720Q attached and the MBP charging over the single USB-C cable. Worked on it all day and only heard the fans come on when running half an hour worth of Windows updates in Parallels.

Ditto. I'm running the 16" i9 base model using a USB-C cable to connect to my U2720Q, and I have both screens on at the same time, also running Parallels off and on.

Very minimal fan noise over extended periods of time.

 

[alidemirci]

I was wondering there is any possibility of decreasing energy usage without close my lid. I see some app for this, but the owner says It can damage your computer.

I am looking for this because I believe apple will give an update for this, until that time, I don't want to purchase a new keyboard and don't want to lose my camera and quality speaker.

 

[MrGimper]

I was wondering there is any possibility of decreasing energy usage without close my lid. I see some app for this, but the owner says It can damage your computer.

I am looking for this because I believe apple will give an update for this, until that time, I don't want to purchase a new keyboard and don't want to lose my camera and quality speaker.

Use Turbo Boost Switcher or Endurance to disable Turbo Boost .... That's the easiest thing to do.

 

[jc_9]

I have posted earlier saying that like the others, I also have the extra dGPU power draw when connecting external displays but I thought the issue was not so bad, since I use 3 extra displays and the fans were not that loud when doing light use.

My 3 displays are:
- 1 x 1080p@60hz (Acer H274HL)
- 2 x 1440p@60hz (DELL U2717D)

Connected using:
- 1 x USB-C to HDMI (https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01M6C49X2)
- 2 x USB-C HDMI + USB3.0 + PD hub (https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B085NLTTLB)

(2 x 1440p@60hz + a USB keyboard on the left side, 1080p@60hz + Apple charger on the right side)

The only way I can get the dGpu to only draw ~7W is by plugging a SINGLE monitor at 1080p@60hz and closing the lid.

If I use a SINGLE monitor at 1440p@60hz, or connect a SECOND monitor at any resolution / refresh rate, lid opened / closed, I get ~18W.

If I use all 3 monitors with the lid closed, I get ~19W. Opening the lid gives me ~20W.

One of my HDMI dongle also have the USB-C Power delivery which I previously connected the Apple charger in so I can leave one port free on the Macbook.

What I found recently is that even though my 2 dongle-hubs are rated for 100W power delivery, it actually is limited to 50W. Now that I plug the Apple charger directly, the total used wattage is now higher while charging and the main temp never goes below 60°C, the fans stays at ~2700 RPM while only doing minimal browsing. Once the charging is complete for the same scenario, I get the same minimum 60°C but the fans runs at ~2300 RPM instead and becomes a little more acceptable.

---

Today I called Apple multiple times to complain about the excessive dGPU wattage. I talked to 3 level-2 seniors and they told me different things. First guy said that the engineers are aware of the issue but can't say if its software-fixable or not, and actually hanged up the call while I was waiting. Second guy said the engineers are not aware and to just return the Macbook. Third guy opened a ticket for me with all my data above, will do a research for the status of the engineers awareness and will call me back monday before I decide to return the macbook or not.