(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[bill-p]

2) I reckon the majority of those connecting external monitors to their MBP16 will absolutely know that there is a problem, as the jet engine / hairdryer fan noise will commence soon after starting work including in low usage conditions - I only use MS teams, Office apps, Chrome, Safari, Apple Music and Podcasts. I'd say that's low usage. No coding. No video editing. No graphics editing. And I've still had to take action so that other participants in MS Teams calls can hear me above the fan noise (disabling Turbo boost).

I highlighted your "heavy" use cases.

Chrome still does NOT make use of Metal on Mac OS, and since MS teams and Office apps are now Electron-based, which is Chromium-based, they are also not making use of Metal.

You'd think those are "low usage", but on a Mac, they are not.

Other apps people may think are "low usage" but are actually not are: Slack, Facebook Messenger, etc...

Gone are the days when software developers write apps from scratch with efficiency in mind. Everyone must now use a "framework" because... the industry is doing it.

P.S.: as an aside, coding is actually lower usage than your usage. Imagine that. Your problem is basically that the GPU is being forced to 20W and also forced to work over time to power MS apps and Chrome because they are not optimized for low GPU usage on Mac.

 

[gery12]

I've got a MacBook Pro 16-inch, 2019 with an AMD Radeon Pro 5500M, i9.
Fans are pretty noisy when it is plugged to an external monitor (Philips Brillance 272B) even when the CPU is idle. This is really frustrating.
When not connected to the external display the Radeon draws around 5W and rises up to around 18W when connected to the external monitor.
The native resolution of the external monitor is 2560 x 1440 pixels. I tried different settings and when using 1080p, the Radeon's power consumption decreases at 5W and the fans are quite. I did not have this problem with my previous MBP 2017, with the same monitor.
Using SwitchResX, in clam shell mode, I created a custom settings using the 2560 x 1440 resolution and setting the pixel clock at 300MHz, resulting in 57Hz refresh rate. GPU remains at 5W, et voilà !
For your monitor you can try using the native resolution, playing with the pixel clock and read the power consumption to see which settings work.

UPDATE: this also fixed a problem of kernel panic when plugging or un-plugging my laptop to an external monitor. Note that I can still get kernel panics when plugging to an external monitor not configured using SwitchResX.

 

[robcowart]

SOLVED! MacBook Pro 16" + External Monitor = High Temperatures and Loud Fans. Here is the FIX!

 

[robcowart]

Hi. Thanks for sharing your experience.

You are not in clamshell mode, right?

Can you please share screenshot of iStat?
Especially interested in wattage consumption of Radeon High Side and temperature of Thunderbolt Left & Right Proximity sensors.

I am in clam shell. I actually did some more testing, and was able to confirm that clam shell does make a difference. However it is most important to use a refresh rate of 60Hz or greater. I know now that this is why the DisplayPort cable worked for me. It was the only way for my monitor to support 60Hz (manually changing to 50Hz caused the problems to return, even over DisplayPort). I posted a video of my finding here in this thread, which provides more information.

 

[Camarillo Brillo]

He should have used istat menus to monitor the power used by Radeon in various scenarios, I think that would provide a more clear result. Still helpful though.

 

[decipherkl]

thank you. by any chance do you know if the video woulb be as good as if i did a usb-c to a display port.

I have the Dell U2719dc and in my experience USB-C to DP and USB-C to USB-C make no difference, all USB-C is more convenient

 

[Jaunte]

I am in clam shell. I actually did some more testing, and was able to confirm that clam shell does make a difference. However it is most important to use a refresh rate of 60Hz or greater. I know now that this is why the DisplayPort cable worked for me. It was the only way for my monitor to support 60Hz (manually changing to 50Hz caused the problems to return, even over DisplayPort). I posted a video of my finding here in this thread, which provides more information.

Hi,
In my case it is quite the opposite.
I'm using a Displayport cable and custom 59Hz refresh rate and this way I'm getting Radeon High Side 8-9W (two external 4K displays and closed lid)
Trying to use 60Hz blows the power usage to 21W in my case.
And nothing helps if I open the lid. And of course I would like to use my Mac with open lid.

 

[jaduffy007]

I highlighted your "heavy" use cases.

Chrome still does NOT make use of Metal on Mac OS, and since MS teams and Office apps are now Electron-based, which is Chromium-based, they are also not making use of Metal.

You'd think those are "low usage", but on a Mac, they are not.

Other apps people may think are "low usage" but are actually not are: Slack, Facebook Messenger, etc...

Gone are the days when software developers write apps from scratch with efficiency in mind. Everyone must now use a "framework" because... the industry is doing it.

P.S.: as an aside, coding is actually lower usage than your usage. Imagine that. Your problem is basically that the GPU is being forced to 20W and also forced to work over time to power MS apps and Chrome because they are not optimized for low GPU usage on Mac.

Makes no sense to me. Why does the lesser powered 13" MBP's run these tasks without any issues?!!? Why do older MBPs with dedicated gpu's not have these issues with such tasks?

"Gone are the days when software developers write apps from scratch with efficiency in mind". Then YOU won't get hired as part of my development team.

 

[bill-p]

Utter non-sense imo. Completely illogical. Why does the lesser powered 13" MBP's run these tasks without any issues?!!? Why do older MBPs with dedicated gpu's not have these issues with such tasks?

"Gone are the days when software developers write apps from scratch with efficiency in mind". Then YOU won't get hired as part of my development team.

Can you prove that the 13" MBP runs these tasks without any issues? I'm still seeing reports of poor thermals in the new 13".

And literally all older 15" MBP with dedicated GPUs have thermal issues. The 16" is the first MacBook without any issue except for when you try to use it with more than 2 monitors.

I am already a software dev, and I constantly have to work around the limitations of current software frameworks like Angular, Electron and Spring. What does your team use?

 

[interbear]

I highlighted your "heavy" use cases.

Chrome still does NOT make use of Metal on Mac OS, and since MS teams and Office apps are now Electron-based, which is Chromium-based, they are also not making use of Metal.

You'd think those are "low usage", but on a Mac, they are not.

Other apps people may think are "low usage" but are actually not are: Slack, Facebook Messenger, etc...

Gone are the days when software developers write apps from scratch with efficiency in mind. Everyone must now use a "framework" because... the industry is doing it.

P.S.: as an aside, coding is actually lower usage than your usage. Imagine that. Your problem is basically that the GPU is being forced to 20W and also forced to work over time to power MS apps and Chrome because they are not optimized for low GPU usage on Mac.

That’s really interesting. Thanks. I’d rather use Safari as a browser actually but some of the websites I need to use for work are only compatible with Chrome, which is a tad annoying. I’d happily remove Google completely.

MS Teams I do understand as heavy usage.

 

[interbear]

SOLVED! MacBook Pro 16" + External Monitor = High Temperatures and Loud Fans. Here is the FIX!

Interesting video, thanks for sharing. I don‘t want to use clamshell as I like using the MBP keyboard, speakers and touchbar (yes, I must be the only person ) Which leaves display port as the option to try. Seems a shame though. One of the reasons I bought a new ultra wide Philips monitor is because it can power my MBP via USB-C and has a USB hub. I assume if I move to display port I’ll have to power the MBP via the Apple power adaptor so would lose the single cable neatness of USB-C and the USB hub?

 

[mcurrys07]

Update:

The Apple store did a full refresh of my Mac. They found no hardware issues which I figured there wouldn’t be. Brought it home this morning only to find it doing the exact same thing when connected to a monitor. Immediately called Apple support who escalated it to the engineers. They are going to call me on Tuesday to try and figure it out. This is beyond frustrating. Absolutely no reason for why I need to run this thing in clamshell mode to keep the temps reasonable when connected to my monitor. I have an older 2016 13” MacBook Pro and it has zero issues with it being connected. I’ll update once I have the call with the engineers. The Support rep did say that Apple is aware of this issue internally and that they are looking into it. It was nice to at least have them acknowledge the problem. Now fix it the damn thing.... I’ll update if I get anywhere with the engineer. For now as most people on this thread have suggested I am just using the MacBook in clamshell mode when connected to the monitor. That keeps it in a reasonable temperature range.

 

[kaans]

By the way I just stumbled onto this project, seems to be the simplest open source option to disable TurboBoost: https://github.com/syscl/CPUTune - If we had some control over the Dedicated GPU's too, the External Monitor/Temperature issues could be managed

Electron/Node/JS is the future, most development teams are agile now, the market has too much competition, too much segmentation on the platforms to support to keep up, so the additional resources are a necessary evil

These are really **** machines sadly, regardless of this specific issue, best to keep them unconnected as much as possible, I've had 2 swollen battery Macbook's up until this one, my solution is to run it standalone as much as possible, and keep it disconnected whenever I can

It's way past the time to jump the Apple ship, but the lock-in is real, I need a macos device to compile, might as well use it too :/

 

[jaduffy007]

Can you prove that the 13" MBP runs these tasks without any issues? I'm still seeing reports of poor thermals in the new 13".

And literally all older 15" MBP with dedicated GPUs have thermal issues. The 16" is the first MacBook without any issue except for when you try to use it with more than 2 monitors.

I am already a software dev, and I constantly have to work around the limitations of current software frameworks like Angular, Electron and Spring. What does your team use?

Well, in working at 3 different large Web development consulting companies over several years...using every single MBP since 2013...myself and others going through numerous MBPs due to butterfly keyboards... I never saw or heard a single developer complain or mention their machine's thermal & fans shooting through the roof because they connected an external monitor!!! We weren't/aren't doing ML s**t....just Angular, React, Node, Xcode, Java, Python, Golang and Kubernetes work.

My Gf's 2020 13" MBP runs flawlessly attached to my external 4k monitor..running Slack, Teams, Zoom, as well as DaVinci Resolve, Capture One Pro, Photoshop. Same goes for 2 friends who own the 13" i7. My 16", without SwitchResX hack or an eGPU...sounds like a 747 jet taking off...in IDLE (!!!)...merely because I connected an external monitor.

 

[Frankied22]

Are you all experiencing the loud fans when hooked up to a 4K display? I have a refurb 16" and when I use it with my Dell 1440p/144hz monitor with the laptop screen also open I am not getting any fan noise unless I do something that always kicks on the fans (watching 4k video, exporting video, playing games).

 

[ateslik]

Can you prove that the 13" MBP runs these tasks without any issues? I'm still seeing reports of poor thermals in the new 13".

And literally all older 15" MBP with dedicated GPUs have thermal issues. The 16" is the first MacBook without any issue except for when you try to use it with more than 2 monitors.

I can. Because I had the 16", documented the problems in this thread, then returned it for the 13" I'm using right now. Both machines maxed out. I can tell you without question that the 13" has absolutely none of the high wattage problems that cause the overheating like the 16" MBP has. Check my posts. They start somewhere around page 70.

I haven't had a single issue with the 13". It's a great machine. Noticeably slower, but RELIABLE.

 

[bill-p]

Here you go. Do you need more screenshots?

I did not need to do anything special here. It just works. Well, I have to set the monitor to DisplayPort 1.2, but that's about it.

I haven't had a single issue with the 13". It's a great machine. Noticeably slower, but RELIABLE.

And... that's the price to pay for "quiet-ness". I think that's normal. I had a 12" MacBook way back when as well. It was silent. Performance sucked a lot but it was dead silent. Neither the 16" nor 13" can compare to that.

I went from a 13" + eGPU setup up to the 16" because I realized I ultimately needed the CPU of the 16" for some of the open-source projects I work on. It's not a "must-have" but it's "nice-to-have" when I'm debugging. But in any case, my setup just works perfectly in clamshell.

This thread highlights a problem that is very frustrating for some, sure, but depending on your workflow (and whether you can operate in clamshell, I guess), it's not a problem for some others.

Well, in working at 3 different large Web development consulting companies over several years...using every single MBP since 2013...myself and others going through numerous MBPs due to butterfly keyboards... I never saw or heard a single developer complain or mention their machine's thermal & fans shooting through the roof because they connected an external monitor!!! We weren't/aren't doing ML s**t....just Angular, React, Node, Xcode, Java, Python, Golang and Kubernetes work.

My Gf's 2020 13" MBP runs flawlessly attached to my external 4k monitor..running Slack, Teams, Zoom, as well as DaVinci Resolve, Capture One Pro, Photoshop. Same goes for 2 friends who own the 13" i7. My 16", without SwitchResX hack or an eGPU...sounds like a 747 jet taking off...in IDLE (!!!)...merely because I connected an external monitor.

I don't see why you took issues with my statement that:

"Gone are the days when software developers write apps from scratch with efficiency in mind"

...when you and your team are working in Angular (which is a framework), Node.js (which is a JavaScript runtime environment), and React (a JS library). None of those are truly "native JS" per se.

And neither are Java, Python or Golang.

But anyways, see my above screenshot. Not all monitors are affected. Some USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 monitors may "just work" without you having to fiddle with SwitchResX or anything of the sort.

 

[Jaunte]

This thread highlights a problem that is very frustrating for some, sure, but depending on your workflow (and whether you can operate in clamshell, I guess), it's not a problem for some others.

But anyways, see my above screenshot. Not all monitors are affected. Some USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 monitors may "just work" without you having to fiddle with SwitchResX or anything of the sort.

If you use your MacBook Pro 16 not in clamshell with 2 external displays it will overheat all the time.
I don't want to close the lid, and the computer must be able to drive even 4 displays based on spec.

I can't accept that simply launching Safari and nothing else on an 8 core computer must give me temperatures around 70C and fans rotating at 3000+.

So far nobody showed any working evidence about multiple displays + open lid and no issues.

 

[dooyou]

If you use your MacBook Pro 16 not in clamshell with 2 external displays it will overheat all the time.

But there is a big difference between overheating and getting hot. So the temperatures are so high that the system is throttled down?

 

[kaans]

Watching this video should be an obligatory prerequisite for engaging about anything Apple:

Just connecting an external monitor increases idle temperatures by almost 30C - it's simply not normal, don't bully others because you are in denial - we just have to live with the fact that we are continually getting screwed one way or another

 

[Jaunte]

But there is a big difference between overheating and getting hot. So the temperatures are so high that the system is throttled down?

I mean you can't use a system where the lowest temperature is 70C and fans around 3000 in idle.
As soon as you want to do something the fans will jump to 5000+ and the noise will become unbearable.
There is no reason for an idle notebook to consume 43W+

(And yes, if you put a real load on the system it can't maintain even the base 2.3GHz, it is throttling too)

 

[dooyou]

There is no reason for an idle notebook to consume 43W+

Or 20 watts instead of 5 watts.

But we have known this since the first page. Unfortunately we're running in circles because the manufacturer doesn't care.

 

[mctrials23]

Update:

The Apple store did a full refresh of my Mac. They found no hardware issues which I figured there wouldn’t be. Brought it home this morning only to find it doing the exact same thing when connected to a monitor. Immediately called Apple support who escalated it to the engineers. They are going to call me on Tuesday to try and figure it out. This is beyond frustrating. Absolutely no reason for why I need to run this thing in clamshell mode to keep the temps reasonable when connected to my monitor. I have an older 2016 13” MacBook Pro and it has zero issues with it being connected. I’ll update once I have the call with the engineers. The Support rep did say that Apple is aware of this issue internally and that they are looking into it. It was nice to at least have them acknowledge the problem. Now fix it the damn thing.... I’ll update if I get anywhere with the engineer. For now as most people on this thread have suggested I am just using the MacBook in clamshell mode when connected to the monitor. That keeps it in a reasonable temperature range.

I have been running macbook pros for nearly a decade now and since the refresh I have had nothing but problems with their thermals. Hooking them up to 2 4K monitors had the fans going at full chat almost constantly.

The 13" i had before the 2018 15" was really poor graphically but at least it didn't go nuts with external displays. It just struggled to push the pixels. They have known about these issues for years now and done little to fix it. Their core issue is that they have made a device that is too thin to handle the CPU/GPU they are putting inside the machines without having to utterly gimp the performance.

They can't gimp the performance in their flagship macbook pros so the only solution is to slightly throttle them and basically run them super hot and with the fans running overtime.

My 2018 has just had to have the battery replaced because it was swelling after 20 months use. I would put a large amount on money on that being down to running at the very edge of its thermal envelope for 10+ hours a day.

I now have a mac mini which is much faster and almost as good graphically (for what I do which is programming) and it very rarely runs the fans at any audible level. A much better machine considering I don't need portability 95% of the time and its a convenience the other 5%.

Can't wait for these ARM macbooks to start coming out.

 

[kaans]

Linus (the Youtube guy) theoretizes that they introduce these edge thermal issues intentionally, so when the Arm Macbook's come out, they'll be like "More Performance / Half the Temps at 45C's" - very believable, because it's a trivial task to configure the wattage/temperatures, they could easily end our suffering with a gpu bios update

If the 16" Macbook was perfect, I don't think any of us would deal with the growing pains of an ARM machine - so it makes sense

I also think people should complain more about the swelling however they can, it seems to be really widespread, yet when you complain about it, it's almost like it's only happening to you

I'm even thinking of removing the bottom screws, and letting the bottom case hold on there with just some high strength putty - so if this device swells too, at least it won't warp the space-time around it - it'll just push the bottom outside, higher resale value, most people that messages my second hand ads (I don't want to deal with Apple, I just sell failing devices and move on) seem to not care, but I've been selling to repairsman, they pay the asking amount instantly, butcher the device and sell for parts :/

 

[dooyou]

Can't wait for these ARM macbooks to start coming out.

With ARM they will make the devices even thinner 😃
[automerge]1592827432[/automerge]

Linus (the Youtube guy) theoretizes that they introduce these edge thermal issues intentionally, so when the Arm Macbook's come out, they'll be like "More Performance / Half the Temps at 45C's" - very believable, because it's a trivial task to configure the wattage/temperatures, they could easily end our suffering with a gpu bios update
If the 16" Macbook was perfect, I don't think any of us would deal with the growing pains of an ARM machine - so it makes sense

That sounds too much like conspiracy theory to me now. What should the car manufacturer Tesla say, even there the forums are full of people complaining about processing errors. Is Tesla doing this on purpose? I don't think so.