(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[jc_9]

Nothing changed in macOS Big Sur :-(
Too much bugs, runs hot and still ~18W with external monitor.

Thanks a lot for confirming... I'm so conflicted right now. I'm thinking of waiting for ARM Macbook Pros but I know I'll miss Bootcamp.

Apple is heavily censoring the 192 pages thread about it: They don't want us to say that the issue is still present in Big Sur.

 

[jaduffy007]

Some follow up questions/comments around cables and potential differences. In researching cables that "adapt" TB3/USB-C to DisplayPort for "DisplayPort Alternate Mode" . All Thunderbolt 3 hosts support Alt Mode,

Why does Plugable emphasize "adapter" vs simply a USB-C to DisplayPort Cable?? And on their TB3 Dock product page, they say this: "The second Thunderbolt 3 port on the dock supports a second monitor on the following systems when using a USB-C Alt Mode video adapter (sold separately):"

I came across this random comment in the Amazon review section for the "Plugable USB C to DisplayPort Adapter", which is a cable.

"they left the proper pin disconnected as specified in the VESA DisplayPort standard (Some non-compliant cables connect all the pins in the DisplayPort connector and it causes all kinds of electrical problems since the pin that should be disconnected is meant only to deliver power to active display adapters and should never be connected in passive DisplayPort cables)."

Just advertising bs for Plugable? Could this possibly explain our issues? ... or ... why some of us are experiencing "fixes" via specific cables?
Thoughts?

 

[CibbySF]

I just posted this in another thread but have been active here too so sharing. Got from Max Tech... They can't yet measure the wattage of the Radeon High Side, iStats isn't reporting it. But he sent me his temps while browsing for an hour and plugged into an Apple 6K XDR (attached). At least compared to my i9 5500m, I'm usually around 60-63c when browsing, etc, lid open, external display. Maybe the 5600 design reduces heat after all?

 

[x3sphere]

I don't care about the power consumption as long as it's not causing fan noise (which it isn't, as you can see from my screenshot), and not throttling performance (unfortunately, it does throttle performance).

So I use my MacBook mostly in clamshell with my ultrawide monitor, and yes, I'm happy. Just watched the entirety of Apple's Keynote just now with the lid open because I needed one screen to work on. Fans stayed at 2000RPM or less.

P.S.: proof or it didn't happen

20W by itself is not a problem at all if the fans are barely audible, if at all. Also my idle temps are there if you want to see them.

Even if you aren't getting any noticeable fan noise it's still a problem IMO because that 20W is taking away from the overall power budget of the system. I haven't done benchmarks but chances are you'll get lower CPU performance (reduced boost/clock speeds) when the GPU is taking 20W.

Too bad there doesn't seem to be any improvements in the new macOS beta.

 

[donperi]

Even if you aren't getting any noticeable fan noise it's still a problem IMO because that 20W is taking away from the overall power budget of the system. I haven't done benchmarks but chances are you'll get lower CPU performance (reduced boost/clock speeds) when the GPU is taking 20W.

Too bad there doesn't seem to be any improvements in the new macOS beta.

You are right.
When using 20w, the CPU watt consumption on full load is reduced, which results in lower performance.

Cinebench R20 Results:

Clamshell + monitor / no external monitor (5w): 3180-3270 points

External Monitor and lid open (19-20w): 2700~ points.

Thermals looks "fine" on full load on both cases.

 

[interbear]

You are right.
When using 20w, the CPU watt consumption on full load is reduced, which results in lower performance.

Cinebench R20 Results:

Clamshell + monitor / no external monitor (5w): 3180-3270 points

External Monitor and lid open (19-20w): 2700~ points.

Thermals looks "fine" on full load on both cases.

Well so far I’ve found that to have my MBP16 work effectively, I have to :

1. Disable Automatic Graphic Switching to prevent a graphics corruption on certain apps.
2. Disable PowerNap to prevent crashes when sleeping.
3. Disable Turbo Boost via the TurboBoost Switcher Pro app to run cooler and quieter.

3 workarounds to remove / disable features just so that I can connect an external monitor with the MBP16 lid open, see the apps I’m using without corruption and work without thinking I have a hairdryer inside the machine.

Plus, as per your post, the 20w power draw of the GPU to run the external monitor (which I’ve also validated with iStats) is impacting performance.

If I wasn’t well past the return date I’d be finding an alternative. Frustrating.

 

[kaans]

Some follow up questions/comments around cables and potential differences. In researching cables that "adapt" TB3/USB-C to DisplayPort for "DisplayPort Alternate Mode" . All Thunderbolt 3 hosts support Alt Mode,

Why does Plugable emphasize "adapter" vs simply a USB-C to DisplayPort Cable?? And on their TB3 Dock product page, they say this: "The second Thunderbolt 3 port on the dock supports a second monitor on the following systems when using a USB-C Alt Mode video adapter (sold separately):"

I came across this random comment in the Amazon review section for the "Plugable USB C to DisplayPort Adapter", which is a cable.

"they left the proper pin disconnected as specified in the VESA DisplayPort standard (Some non-compliant cables connect all the pins in the DisplayPort connector and it causes all kinds of electrical problems since the pin that should be disconnected is meant only to deliver power to active display adapters and should never be connected in passive DisplayPort cables)."

Just advertising bs for Plugable? Could this possibly explain our issues? ... or ... why some of us are experiencing "fixes" via specific cables?
Thoughts?

I think this makes a lot of sense, even if it's not the cause, it's good to know, thank you (I started digging deeper into all kinds of adapter related issues, got rid of all my adapters, they draw unnecessary power and wear the device down during sleep - it seems I need to obsess over cables too)

I guess we can easily get our answer by asking an XDR user about their experience, since it'll use an Apple cabe and it's a natively crafted experience

 

[Idec50]

So is Apple going to stick with AMD for their GPU for the new Apple CPUs so we get to keep having this same problem?

 

[covertsurfer]

FINALLY!

I'm posting this as a confirmation of a reportedly "fix", which is using a Type-C to Displayport (which should support 4K and 60Hz).

I just bought the following cable, and the moment I connected my MBP 16" to my DELL U2515H (2560x1440) and enabled 60Hz (instead of 58.9 that my previous cable-supported), everything fell into place, just like they're supposed to. FINALLY.

MacBook Pro 16" state: Clamshell Mode
Average Temp: 50°C
Radeon High Tide: ~4.5W
Cable: https://www.delock.de/produkte/G_85257/merkmale.html?setLanguage=en
Monitor: https://www.amazon.co.uk/DELL-U2515H-ADZG-25-Inch-Monitor/dp/B00P6O3YYO


View attachment 925926


My Macbook stays at 50°C, and my fans at 1800RPM (0%) while I'm currently browsing 7 tabs on Chrome, running Adobe Illustrator & Sketch.

Now, my only concern which I'll need to test by the end of the week is a dual-monitor setup. That is, by using the same cable mentioned above at both my monitors (since they're both the same model).

Look forward to seeing how dual monitors work for you as I have the same setup

 

[pshifrin]

Interesting observation with my relatively "new" refurb 2.3/32/1tb/5500m 4gb. At home (transplanted from my office during the shutdown) is the LG Ultrafine 23.7 4k. Just like with the 15 inch it replaced, I almost NEVER hear the fans when plugged in unless I'm crunching a premiere export. I never use clamshell, always both open.

Today I went to the office for the first time in a long time and hooked my 16 to a TV via a hootoo multiport adaptor using the HDMI port and ran a zoom. Holy fan city!

At home, I'm on zoom all the time, no fans. So why is it ok with the Ultrafine but not almost any other scenario described in this thread?

 

[Grohowiak]

Interesting observation with my relatively "new" refurb 2.3/32/1tb/5500m 4gb. At home (transplanted from my office during the shutdown) is the LG Ultrafine 23.7 4k. Just like with the 15 inch it replaced, I almost NEVER hear the fans when plugged in unless I'm crunching a premiere export. I never use clamshell, always both open.

Today I went to the office for the first time in a long time and hooked my 16 to a TV via a hootoo multiport adaptor using the HDMI port and ran a zoom. Holy fan city!

At home, I'm on zoom all the time, no fans. So why is it ok with the Ultrafine but not almost any other scenario described in this thread?

Ultrafine uses apple certified cable?

 

[alsid02]

Looking to buy a specced out mbp 16, and the only reason I have not yet pulled the trigger is due to this issue. Is this really a massive deal breaker. I do not mind the fan noise, more worried about hardware damage due to the constant high temperatures on low loads.

I will mainly be using this laptop with an external display in non clamshell mode.

 

[Grohowiak]

Looking to buy a specced out mbp 16, and the only reason I have not yet pulled the trigger is due to this issue. Is this really a massive deal breaker. I do not mind the fan noise, more worried about hardware damage due to the constant high temperatures on low loads.

I will mainly be using this laptop with an external display in non clamshell mode.

I was in a similar position and ultimately I just bought apple care and said f it.
I'm used to jet engine sounding windows machines so occasional noise from the laptop is nothing lol.
Once my iMac sells I will connect the MBP to external screen and start testing different cables. Something tells me this might be the case.

 

[pshifrin]

Ultrafine uses apple certified cable?

This cable: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N5NPTWI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm back at home now and super quiet! 62deg and 1800rpm

 

[kaans]

62deg and 1800rpm is the problem range

 

[supaninjax]

Thought I'd chime in here since no one else is really taking this issue seriously. I posted on the Apple forum but there's quite a few people over there arguing that this is normal behavior and the fans are supposed to speed up when the GPU gets hot. Those people obviously do not own this machine because this behavior is absolutely not normal at all.

Simply plugging in an external display to my fully maxed out 2019 16" MBP almost instantly cranks up the fans. Trying to do a simple task like watch a youtube video will often get the fans at 100% and the gpu over 15-20w or more. This is not normal and should not be happening. It's a shame Apple hasn't addressed this yet. This never happened with my 2018 MBP or any other MBP I've owned over the years and it definitely shouldn't be happening with a top of the line $5,000+ machine.

I'm using a Apple Pro Display XDR which I'm assuming makes it worse. I thought it was just my configuration for a while but seeing so many other people with the same issues says a lot. I've tried every fix available. Turbo boost switcher helps a little bit but not very much. Couldn't get SwitchResX working with my 6k XDR I'm guessing because the resolution is too high or something so that didn't help either. No matter what I tried on that I just got a black screen until I switched back to normal resolution.

We shouldn't have to cripple our machines just to use an external monitor. Especially a brand new monitor that Apple claims the 16" can run 2 OF! I think that is impossible because just using 1 XDR display turns my 16" into an oven and a jet engine. There's no possible way it can handle 2 XDR's. I doubt anyone at Apple even tested these machines before cranking them out. This is false advertising. I believe if Apple doesn't address this we could potentially have a class action lawsuit on our hands. This is completely unacceptable. Even just watching a fullscreen youtube video the video playback will be choppy. Simply opening certain applications will cause the fans and wattage to jump instantly and the fans stay at max the whole time. I always use clamshell mode when hooked up to an external display, I can only imagine it would be much much worse if I tried to use it while the laptop was open

The only "fix" that actually works (albeit an expensive fix) for me is using a Blackmagic eGPU Radeon Pro 580 and even that is not great. With the eGPU the fans stay below 20% even when doing heavy lifting and the Radeon high side stays below 3w at all times. So it works and I have none of the issues I would have when connecting the display directly to my MBP but that comes with it's own issues. The eGPU crashes frequently for no reason and I always have to close whatever apps I was using anytime I want to disconnect my computer. Again these are things we shouldn't have to do in order use our expensive toasters with an external display.

I can't use any of the cables or anything that people have mentioned here because I'm using thunderbolt 3 from the XDR display. There's definitely some GPU issue going on with these machines that Apple needs to address. If using a certain cable, eGPU, resolution settings, etc fixes the problem then Apple should be able to fix it with an update but as of right now it seems like they are not too concerned with this issue

 

[Grohowiak]

I'm wondering if apple care will help on this front. At some point if you bug them enough they should replace the machine either with new parts or newer model.

 

[jaduffy007]

This cable: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N5NPTWI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm back at home now and super quiet! 62deg and 1800rpm

So, anyone care to explain Plugable's insistence on using this cable "adapter" when using TB3 to DisplayPort connections? CalDigit's "passive" vs "active" cables, etc?

Plugable USB C to DisplayPort Cable 6 feet (1.8m), Up to 4K at 60Hz, USB C DisplayPort Cable - Compatible with Thunderbolt and USB-C - Driverless

Plugable USB-C to DisplayPort Adapter Cable The Plugable USB-C to DisplayPort Adapter​​ Cable enables you to connect USB-C and Thunderbolt 3 / 4 enabled devices that support "VESA DisplayPort Alternate Mode over USB-C" ("Alt Mode") to external displays with DisplayPort (DP). 6 foot display ca...

www.amazon.com

I think I'll call Plugable's customer/ tech service. I just ordered this TB3/DisplayPort cable for testing.

Update: Received the Plugable Adapter Cable...no difference. MBP directly to monitor ... Open lid ... draws 19W...70C...fans at 3100rpm

 

[interbear]

I'm wondering if apple care will help on this front. At some point if you bug them enough they should replace the machine either with new parts or newer model.

Wondering this too. I do have AppleCare so may go down this route. At the moment I’m trying the various workarounds, thus far with limited success. Turbo Switcher Pro makes a bit of a difference when disabling turbo boost but the fans still get too noisy.

 

[dooyou]

Wondering this too. I do have AppleCare so may go down this route.

Nothing is going to happen, you've read that a couple of times here. They say, yes, it's normal. Maybe they'll replace the device anyway, because they are so kind, but the problem remains.

 

[bomby0]

Thought I'd chime in here since no one else is really taking this issue seriously. I posted on the Apple forum but there's quite a few people over there arguing that this is normal behavior and the fans are supposed to speed up when the GPU gets hot. Those people obviously do not own this machine because this behavior is absolutely not normal at all.

Simply plugging in an external display to my fully maxed out 2019 16" MBP almost instantly cranks up the fans. Trying to do a simple task like watch a youtube video will often get the fans at 100% and the gpu over 15-20w or more. This is not normal and should not be happening. It's a shame Apple hasn't addressed this yet. This never happened with my 2018 MBP or any other MBP I've owned over the years and it definitely shouldn't be happening with a top of the line $5,000+ machine.

I'm using a Apple Pro Display XDR which I'm assuming makes it worse. I thought it was just my configuration for a while but seeing so many other people with the same issues says a lot. I've tried every fix available. Turbo boost switcher helps a little bit but not very much. Couldn't get SwitchResX working with my 6k XDR I'm guessing because the resolution is too high or something so that didn't help either. No matter what I tried on that I just got a black screen until I switched back to normal resolution.

We shouldn't have to cripple our machines just to use an external monitor. Especially a brand new monitor that Apple claims the 16" can run 2 OF! I think that is impossible because just using 1 XDR display turns my 16" into an oven and a jet engine. There's no possible way it can handle 2 XDR's. I doubt anyone at Apple even tested these machines before cranking them out. This is false advertising. I believe if Apple doesn't address this we could potentially have a class action lawsuit on our hands. This is completely unacceptable. Even just watching a fullscreen youtube video the video playback will be choppy. Simply opening certain applications will cause the fans and wattage to jump instantly and the fans stay at max the whole time. I always use clamshell mode when hooked up to an external display, I can only imagine it would be much much worse if I tried to use it while the laptop was open

The only "fix" that actually works (albeit an expensive fix) for me is using a Blackmagic eGPU Radeon Pro 580 and even that is not great. With the eGPU the fans stay below 20% even when doing heavy lifting and the Radeon high side stays below 3w at all times. So it works and I have none of the issues I would have when connecting the display directly to my MBP but that comes with it's own issues. The eGPU crashes frequently for no reason and I always have to close whatever apps I was using anytime I want to disconnect my computer. Again these are things we shouldn't have to do in order use our expensive toasters with an external display.

I can't use any of the cables or anything that people have mentioned here because I'm using thunderbolt 3 from the XDR display. There's definitely some GPU issue going on with these machines that Apple needs to address. If using a certain cable, eGPU, resolution settings, etc fixes the problem then Apple should be able to fix it with an update but as of right now it seems like they are not too concerned with this issue

Yea, there are some true crazies saying this is normal behavior and not a bug in that "MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise" thread on the official apple forums. If you even suggest what they're saying is crazy your comment gets deleted and you get banned from posting for a week! The macrumors forums are way better.

I think most people posting are taking it seriously since this thread is already 84 pages and the bug has existed since day 1 of release 16" Macbook Pros. There's just no fix in sight from Apple which is super disappointing so there's not much new to say except this stupid bug STILL isn't fixed.

 

[gugy]

We shouldn't have to cripple our machines just to use an external monitor. Especially a brand new monitor that Apple claims the 16" can run 2 OF! I think that is impossible because just using 1 XDR display turns my 16" into an oven and a jet engine. There's no possible way it can handle 2 XDR's.

Thanks for this info. Sorry about your issue.
I am passing on buying a new MBP. I was about to get the latest one with the new GPU but, I guess not now since I want one XDR. I'll wait until the new ARM chips migrate to the MBP 16".

 

[Guitardude092]

Hey! I've been monitoring this forum and I just picked up my Macbook 16".
Just started using it with my iMac 2012 as an external display, what sort of info can I provide you guys that would be helpful?
I downloaded iStat, but not sure what to look at. Fans sound super quiet so far.

you may be one of the lucky ones lol. keep us posted.

 

[jc_9]

If you even suggest what they're saying is crazy your comment gets deleted and you get banned from posting for a week!

Not only that, asking if Big Sur solves anything is enough to get your post deleted. I really wanted to like this machine and begin using an Apple laptop for the first time but this is kind of unreal. Only ONE monitor with open lid idles at 60°C and Display port MST daisy chaining still doesn't extend monitors.

Rumors are saying ARM Macbook Pros will only come next year and I need a Mac laptop right now, this sucks.

 

[Grohowiak]

So, anyone care to explain Plugable's insistence on using this cable "adapter" when using TB3 to DisplayPort connections? CalDigit's "passive" vs "active" cables, etc?

Plugable USB C to DisplayPort Cable 6 feet (1.8m), Up to 4K at 60Hz, USB C DisplayPort Cable - Compatible with Thunderbolt and USB-C - Driverless

Plugable USB-C to DisplayPort Adapter Cable The Plugable USB-C to DisplayPort Adapter​​ Cable enables you to connect USB-C and Thunderbolt 3 / 4 enabled devices that support "VESA DisplayPort Alternate Mode over USB-C" ("Alt Mode") to external displays with DisplayPort (DP). 6 foot display ca...

www.amazon.com

I think I'll call Plugable's customer/ tech service. I just ordered this TB3/DisplayPort cable for testing.

Ordered it as well. Worst case scenario I send it back.