(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[sco]

Thanks for your input!

I tested resolutions/rotation in clamshell mode with 2 displays (LG 27UK850, LG 27UL850):

• Both displays "Default for display": 5-8W
• Both displays using the second scaling option from the left, standard rotation: 20W
• Both displays using the second scaling option from the left, one display rotated by 90°: 5-8W

Both displays are connected via USB-C, one on the left, the other on the right.

Hi there scho ... We almost have the same handle...

Very interesting... With MBPro open...
I set both monitors to standard rotation (scaled to second from the left) - now up at 22.4W. I would have thought 90 degrees was more work.

Both monitors standard rotation, scaling default for display - 21.4W

Now with MBPro closed...

Both standard rotation/scaled 2nd from the left - around 8.7W
Both standard rotation/default for display - around 8.5W

 

[sco]

What happens if you run these two identical monitors in different scaled resolutions, and the lid closed?

1 monitor scaled second from the left
1 monitor scaled on the middle setting...

.... 8.7W

Edit: Just for fun I added a third monitor... a 1920 x 1200 connected via HDMI via a TB2 dock chained after my TB3 dock. In clamshell with both 4K monitors scaled second from the left plus the 1920x1200 running native I'm at 21.4W. With the MBPro open (four displays) ... same... 21.4W.

For all my above posts the MBPro's screen was scaled at default for display.

With turbo boost off with four displays I can't hear the MBPro over the fan of the Akitio dock.

 

[dooyou]

As someone who has to do tech diagnosis on a regular basis as part of my job - jumping to conclusions and assuming that something is the result of a known issue is a recipe for disaster.

We know by now that these are not individual cases, just funny that the Apple Support Hotline claims to have never heard of them. But that was already the same in the past.

And let's be honest, I'm not going to pay 3,000 euros or dollars for a macbook pro, be on the phone or in front of the macbook for five hours in order to carry out some kind of diagnosis that doesn't help anyway. That would be Apple's job to do. No one will compensate you for the time you spend on it.

And for what, so that in the end you get to say: "This is normal behavior, bye."

 

[Jaunte]

Don't worry. Your ****** experience is expected behaviour. Goodbye.

The only recourse is to fight for a refund under false advertising. The machine is not usable with fans blazing all day long and fans blazing was not mentioned alongside the promise that internal and 4 external displays can be used.

Exactly.
And the advertisement doesn't mention the significant drop in the cpu performance and throttling either if you want to use multiple external displays. (on top of the fan noise I mean)

 

[lǝʍɐd]

So following my previous post I got so angry that I emailed every single board of directors member. Soon after that I got a call from an executive representative, who assigned me a high-level support engineer.

Today we had a call, this (helpful) guy gathered logs / screenshot / screenrecording during the session. Logs are going to be forwarded with a high priority to 3rd level support line.

I'll update you as soon as I have some information for you to share.

 

[scho]

Both standard rotation/scaled 2nd from the left - around 8.7W

This would be my preferred setting. Unfortunately, this draws 20W here. Any other option (both left, one left+one second left, both middle) draws 8W 😂

 

[dooyou]

So following my previous post I got so angry that I emailed every single board of directors member. Soon after that I got a call from an executive representative, who assigned me a high-level support engineer.

Today we had a call, this (helpful) guy gathered logs / screenshot / screenrecording during the session. Logs are going to be forwarded with a high priority to 3rd

Thanks, great! But you should have told him right away to just plug his laptop into a screen, then he'll notice it himself. Or does nobody use the 16" MBP at Apple? Probably not, because of the loud fans 😁

 

[interbear]

So the engineers got back to me after I escalated the issue..... see their response below.

Now that is an entirely unacceptable response. So the MBP16 was designed to sound like a hairdryer when connected to an external monitor? I don’t think so.

Will be interesting to see if I get the same response after my escalation yesterday. I’d imagine so. I’ll be seeking to replace it with a MBP without the discrete GPU if so AND get a refund for the difference in price.

 

[dooyou]

I’ll be seeking to replace it with a MBP without the discrete GPU if so AND get a refund for the difference in price.

One from the old days or 13“?

 

[interbear]

One from the old days or 13“?

I was thinking a 2020 13 inch as they seem to have less fan / heat issues than the 16 inch. I think.

Not that I’m expecting Apple to play ball and let me exchange it as I’m 6 months in with my MBP16. I have AppleCare though so I’m not going to accept that this is “expected behaviour”. It’s almost unusable on Teams conference calls due to the noise.

 

[dooyou]

I ordered the MBP 16" because of the graphics chip. A 13" would not be an option and an eGPU certainly would not be. I think the possibilities are quite limited if Apple does not want to make it work.

 

[pshufd]

I was thinking a 2020 13 inch as they seem to have less fan / heat issues than the 16 inch. I think.

Not that I’m expecting Apple to play ball and let me exchange it as I’m 6 months in with my MBP16. I have AppleCare though so I’m not going to accept that this is “expected behaviour”. It’s almost unusable on Teams conference calls due to the noise.

Zoom can be pretty rough on MacBook Pros as well if you're running other things at the same time (and, of course, you are).

My solution to keeping my Mac cool. It's running at 49 degrees at the moment. Those dual fans can put out 150 CFM probably exceeding the airflow in most desktops. The variable-speed fan control is nice. I usually leave it on the lowest setting or off. I just turn it on a little when I'm doing something like Zoom. Those fans can be turned up to sound louder than the MBP but Zoom is about the only thing I use where that is needed. Stuff like video transcoding - I do on a desktop.

 

[interbear]

I ordered the MBP 16" because of the graphics chip. A 13" would not be an option and an eGPU certainly would not be. I think the possibilities are quite limited if Apple does not want to make it work.

I don’t think I need the graphics chip as I don’t do video editing, gaming or anything that would likely need it. My bad for overspending and overspeccing when I bought it, I went for the “futureproof” strategy and regret it. I should perhaps have bought the base 16 with a bigger SSD, would have been fine for my usage. That’s assuming the base 16 doesn’t have the discrete graphics chip. I know the 13 inch doesn’t hence why that’s perhaps a better option for me although I love the screen, speakers and keyboard of the 16. All round frustrating that the heat and fan noise is such an issue.
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Zoom can be pretty rough on MacBook Pros as well if you're running other things at the same time (and, of course, you are).

My solution to keeping my Mac cool. It's running at 49 degrees at the moment. Those dual fans can put out 150 CFM probably exceeding the airflow in most desktops. The variable-speed fan control is nice. I usually leave it on the lowest setting or off. I just turn it on a little when I'm doing something like Zoom. Those fans can be turned up to sound louder than the MBP but Zoom is about the only thing I use where that is needed. Stuff like video transcoding - I do on a desktop.

View attachment 927524

Glad you have a solution but that picture illustrates how ridiculous the heat / fan issue is with these MBPs. You should socialise it and try to embarrass Apple into action.

 

[pshufd]

Glad you have a solution but that picture illustrates how ridiculous the heat / fan issue is with these MBPs. You should socialise it and try to embarrass Apple into action.

That's a 2015 which doesn't generally have fan noise issues. But I like to keep my laptops running cool for longevity.

I did not like the move to thinner laptops in subsequent years. I was actually fine with my 2008 17 thickness.

 

[dooyou]

I should perhaps have bought the base 16 with a bigger SSD, would have been fine for my usage. That’s assuming the base 16 doesn’t have the discrete graphics chip.

Theres no 16“ without a discrete GPU.
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My solution to keeping my Mac cool. It's running at 49 degrees at the moment. Those dual fans can put out 150 CFM probably exceeding the airflow in most desktops.

Before it is necessary to resort to such drastic measures, I would rather throw the device out of the window. I can immediately buy a € 400 laptop that has such a fan ex factory.

 

[Jaunte]

Thanks, great! But you should have told him right away to just plug his laptop into a screen, then he'll notice it himself. Or does nobody use the 16" MBP at Apple? Probably not, because of the loud fans 😁

It is very hard to believe that they are not aware of this issue.
As soon as you plug into 2 external displays the wattage (and temperature) jumps regardless what you do. It is very easy to reproduce. And this can't be the expected behaviour.
The question is just why they don't care...

 

[pshufd]

It is very hard to believe that they are not aware of this issue.
As soon as you plug into 2 external displays the wattage (and temperature) jumps regardless what you do. It is very easy to reproduce. And this can't be the expected behaviour.
The question is just why they don't care...

Support people are often measured on how efficient they are at closing out cases and not escalating cases. You basically get what you measure.

 

[Alex W.]

Why the hell would apple just not force the igpu to be used for externals displays?
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It is very hard to believe that they are not aware of this issue.
As soon as you plug into 2 external displays the wattage (and temperature) jumps regardless what you do. It is very easy to reproduce. And this can't be the expected behaviour.
The question is just why they don't care...

Recall is likely why
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Has anyone tried to relate their 16" with a battery thermal compound to see the results on fan noise,?

 

[Grohowiak]

Whoever is talking to apple, please make sure to link them this thread.
I still have few tests to do and etc but after that I will start talking to them as well.
This is supposed to be a work computer not a how not to get burned while my mac is melting side project.
Did any of you try to touch the top right corner when this thing heats up?
I don't have a thermometer that can measure surfaces like this but my kid jumped after touching it and I can't keep my hand on it for too long either.

*** my touch bar just froze after constant 2 minute rendering. Not sure if because it got extremely hot or something else.
If I disconnect the external monitor the temps are nowhere near this extreme.

 

[jgorman]

I was thinking a 2020 13 inch as they seem to have less fan / heat issues than the 16 inch. I think.

Not that I’m expecting Apple to play ball and let me exchange it as I’m 6 months in with my MBP16. I have AppleCare though so I’m not going to accept that this is “expected behaviour”. It’s almost unusable on Teams conference calls due to the noise.

I am not sure about the 2020 13-inch with the 10th-gen chip. It seems to run much hotter under load than the 16-inch.

 

[bomby0]

Looks like we have to wait for a ton of dead GPUs showing up and class action lawsuits to be launched before Apple fixes this after seeing Apple claiming this is "normal behavior".
🙄🙄🙄

 

[thedocbwarren]

Think this is saddly an AMD problem. I have a desktop I built using an RX580 and it reboots due to heat on load. End of the day, Intel and AMD are heat monsters and poor on thermo.

Looks like we have to wait for a ton of dead GPUs showing up and class action lawsuits to be launched before Apple fixes this after seeing Apple claiming this is "normal behavior".
🙄🙄🙄

 

[pshufd]

Think this is saddly an AMD problem. I have a desktop I built using an RX580 and it reboots due to heat on load. End of the day, Intel and AMD are heat monsters and poor on thermo.

The nice thing about a desktop is that you can just add a fan or two.

 

[thedocbwarren]

Yes exactly. Frankly I'm more of a desktop user vs laptop. I switched to the 16 as I'm in-between houses and power/heat/space is a concern so a "one system do it all" was the best choice for now. I write software in the Apple ecosystem and for cloud so I need a good powerful system with varied needs. Yes, a Mac Pro is the best machine for my work, minus the cost.

Overall, I don't dislike the laptop, given Corona I don't need mobile so much now so a bit of disapointment I didn't just go desktop, however that probably changes later.

The nice thing about a desktop is that you can just add a fan or two.

 

[interbear]

Theres no 16“ without a discrete GPU.

OK well that would push me towards the 13 inch then. As I’m plugged into a monitor for 80% of my usage I’d sacrifice the 16 inch screen for a machine that was quieter.