2023 Formula 1 Season thread

[cyb3rdud3]

I’ll ignore the comments about 2021 as I think enough has been written about it.
But you are right in that we need a strong number 2 driver to challenger the number 1 driver.
The trouble with this season is the number 2 driver is different every week.
Perez
Alonso
Lando
Lewis
Sainz
Le Clerk

They’ve all had a good week and fallen short. No one driver has emerged as the challenger.
Add to that the RB is such a rocket ship. They have such an advantage under DRS over the rest it’s just boring. You know the pass (if there even is one!) will get done well before the braking zone.
I’ve been saying it for years. DRS needs to go.

The issue isn't DRS if one team and one driver can master it, the issue is that the others can't I can't remember when it was, but you see it all the time, as a drive you need to be smart and make it work to your advantage. Max gave a master class of holding back, staying behind, don't go for the overtake and then he had two in short succession. In the same race Sergio lap after lap made the same mistake and got punished by the bite back of using the DRS at the wrong time. Fernando is another one who gets it, and has been the saving grace considering the Aston Martin upgrades are lacking.

I think it is great, brings an additional dimension to it. Separate the drivers who can be cool and think under pressure from those who let their emotions and excitement get in the way.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The many events of that season allowed both drivers to arrive in Abu Dhabi equal on World Championship points. Max was overtaken at the start of that race and was losing the World Championship until a flustered race director folded under pressure and restarted the race 1 lap too early. He was investigated, found to have not followed the correct procedure and a driver was given an unfair advantage that resulted in him being gifted an easy one-lap win. Not Max’s fault and he took what was given to him with both hands. Lewis would have done exactly the same I have no doubt, but it will always be remembered for what happened. Masi was sacked for his incompetence and that was absolutely the correct decision.

None of the events during the season mean one driver was worthy over the other, what counted was who got the most points at the end of the season and that was decided off the racetrack unfortunately.

Edit; I probably shouldn’t have bitten to this but i’ll leave it there. It’s a dull season and there’s not enough exciting things to talk about for me.

As said before, whilst in that race there was only one point in it, it doesn't paint the full picture of that season. Time and time again the Mercedes drivers seem to manage to get away with torpedoing into another, the other does not finish and they just get 5s or 10s penalty. Remember Silverstone But also remember in that final race, that yes Max was overtaken, but that place should have been given back as Lewis cut the corner doing it

 

[CWallace]

Max was leading the 2021 championship by 33 points going into Silverstone when he DNF'd. Both drivers subsequently won four races each and the other usually scored second, which kept the championship mostly neck-and-neck through the rest of the season.

Looking back, Silverstone and Spa were the two critical races: Silverstone because Lewis was able to score 25 points on Max which arguably allowed him to come back into the hunt for the WDC and Spa because by (effectively) not running it, Max and Lewis finished 1st and 3rd by default and only half points were awarded.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Max was leading the 2021 championship by 33 points going into Silverstone when he was taken out by Lewis Hamilton and DNF'd whilst transported to hospital; Lewis got a 10s penalty, he also got full points for winning the race. Both drivers subsequently won four races each and the other usually scored second, which kept the championship mostly neck-and-neck through the rest of the season.

DNF'd doesn't seem to do it justice in my opinion.

Looking back, Silverstone and Spa were the two critical races: Silverstone because Lewis was able to score 25 points on Max which arguably allowed him to come back into the hunt for the WDC and Spa because by (effectively) not running it, Max and Lewis finished 1st and 3rd by default and only half points were awarded.

Agreed, although I don't think 3rd by default would have made as a material impact as Silverstone did. That would be a 10 point difference if places were swapped.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Max was leading the 2021 championship by 33 points going into Silverstone when he DNF'd. Both drivers subsequently won four races each and the other usually scored second, which kept the championship mostly neck-and-neck through the rest of the season.

Looking back, Silverstone and Spa were the two critical races: Silverstone because Lewis was able to score 25 points on Max which arguably allowed him to come back into the hunt for the WDC and Spa because by (effectively) not running it, Max and Lewis finished 1st and 3rd by default and only half points were awarded.

It was definitely an exciting season where both drivers were evening matched, very much let down by the end. I’m sure if Red Bull had got their way, Masi would have made his own rules up at Silverstone too and given Lewis a random harsher penalty for causing a collision. The way they were talking he should have been banned or sent to the back of the grid for the following race. A 10 second penalty was harsh but fair when you consider Max only had a 5 second penalty for causing a collision in Saudi Arabia. Different consequences, but the same offence and as far as I am aware a penalty is judged on the offence and not what a team thinks should be made up based on the consequences after the collision itself.

Another one from that season was the first lap in Abu Dhabi, Lewis overtook Max at T1 and held the lead until Max tried a banzai dive down the inside of T6, forced Lewis across the chicane and Red Bull had the audacity to ask him to give up the lead! Just talking about this reminds me that maybe these guys fighting for a championship isn’t the best idea after all!

 

[cyb3rdud3]

It was definitely an exciting season where both drivers were evening matched, very much let down by the end. I’m sure if Red Bull had got their way, Masi would have made his own rules up at Silverstone too and given Lewis a random harsher penalty for causing a collision. The way they were talking he should have been banned or sent to the back of the grid for the following race. A 10 second penalty was harsh but fair when you consider Max only had a 5 second penalty for causing a collision in Saudi Arabia. Different consequences, but the same offence and as far as I am aware a penalty is judged on the offence and not what a team thinks should be made up based on the consequences after the collision itself.

There are allowances in the regulations for a harsher penalty. They haven't been applied ever if I recall correctly. But I do think there is something to say for it that when you cause a DNF it is isn't fair to then finish yourself be it with a 5s or 10s penalty. Mercedes especially had a few of those situations and seem very good at it.

Another one from that season was the first lap in Abu Dhabi, Lewis overtook Max at T1 and held the lead until Max tried a banzai dive down the inside of T6, forced Lewis across the chicane and Red Bull had the audacity to ask him to give up the lead! Just talking about this reminds me that maybe these guys fighting for a championship isn’t the best idea after all!

He didn't force him, Lewis had options, but he chose that one. It should have come with consequences, but albeit it didn't. Was Max wrong to do that, if he or anyone else do that today, yes, but at the time he wasn't.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Lol. All this talk of 2021.
Back when we didn’t know who was going to win before the start.
At this stage 2024 will also be a write off.
I wish it would be 2025 already.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Lol. All this talk of 2021.
Back when we didn’t know who was going to win before the start.
At this stage 2024 will also be a write off.
I wish it would be 2025 already.

I’d talk about something else if I could draw something interesting from the current season. Maybe a Norris win would get me back into it. 2021 was certainly the last time I saw a race and had no idea who was going to win it. I know the promoters are playing it up this year to get fans to focus more on things apart from the winner, but it’s difficult unless you are supporting the inevitable champion. I remember voicing my displeasure here during the Mercedes era when they were running away with it so at least I’m not a hypocrite.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I’d talk about something else if I could draw something interesting from the current season. Maybe a Norris win would get me back into it. 2021 was certainly the last time I saw a race and had no idea who was going to win it. I know the promoters are playing it up this year to get fans to focus more on things apart from the winner, but it’s difficult unless you are supporting the inevitable champion. I remember voicing my displeasure here during the Mercedes era when they were running away with it so at least I’m not a hypocrite.

Indeed. It is a bad season indeed. Championship has never been in doubt. Hopefully Max gets board and takes the last 6 races off!

 

[CWallace]

I agree that when one team dominates things begin to feel stale and it is even worse when it is just one driver within said team who is dominating (Ayrton, Mansell, Michael, Sebastian, Lewis, Max). In the 1990s and 2000s mechanical reliability could provide some uncertainty, but by the 2010s the cars became very reliable due to the component usage rules and even when a dominant driver is sent to the back for such an infraction, it is expected they will work their way back to the podium.

 

[pachyderm]

Lol. All this talk of 2021.
Back when we didn’t know who was going to win before the start.
At this stage 2024 will also be a write off.
I wish it would be 2025 already.

I feel we were pretty sure who would win. The Mercs were still very dominant.

Mistakes and a little misfortune were the game changer.

Max caught a huge break at Abu Dhabi. That is the only thing we couldn't foresee...

 

[JustinePaula]

"Max caught a huge break at Abu Dhabi. That is the only thing we couldn't foresee..."
How? When did the regulations change so that the champion is crowned after only 1 event??

You see, 2021 was a combination of a number of incidents that lead to car 44 being 2nd in the WDC, 2 major factors, was 1-Car 44 finished 15th in Baku, and 2nd, a substandard teammate that loved 3rd places, Bahrain, Spain, Portugal, you see that had this faulty teammate with a love of 3rd places, found loving 2nd places more, then Max would have had fewer points going into Abu Dhabi, and would not have had enough points to overcome this deficit...

The only way driver of car 44 was going to gain another title was for Max to finish in 3rd in Abu Dhabi... Even if Lewis was 1st and Max 2nd, Max winner winner chicken dinner...

Nothing to do with safety cars, or race directors, you could place the blame for a lost title at the feet of 1 man, Bottas..Bottas was the cause in chief of why car 44's driver had no title to celebrate.. Did F1 mandate Toto hire Bottas?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

"Max caught a huge break at Abu Dhabi. That is the only thing we couldn't foresee..."
How? When did the regulations change so that the champion is crowned after only 1 event??

You see, 2021 was a combination of a number of incidents that lead to car 44 being 2nd in the WDC, 2 major factors, was 1-Car 44 finished 15th in Baku, and 2nd, a substandard teammate that loved 3rd places, Bahrain, Spain, Portugal, you see that had this faulty teammate with a love of 3rd places, found loving 2nd places more, then Max would have had fewer points going into Abu Dhabi, and would not have had enough points to overcome this deficit...

The only way driver of car 44 was going to gain another title was for Max to finish in 3rd in Abu Dhabi... Even if Lewis was 1st and Max 2nd, Max winner winner chicken dinner...

Nothing to do with safety cars, or race directors, you could place the blame for a lost title at the feet of 1 man, Bottas..Bottas was the cause in chief of why car 44's driver had no title to celebrate.. Did F1 mandate Toto hire Bottas?

Huh? They were level on points going into Abu Dhabi, whoever finished ahead of the other was going to be the champion. It’s as simple as that. Lewis had the better start, better race management and held the lead for the entire race until the SC. Masi’s decision making and failure to follow the process outlined in the regulations decided the race result. This will be discussed for the rest of our lifetimes and the facts will never change. Regardless of the events throughout that season, it was all to play for at the last race. Max nor Lewis deserved the championship just based on what they had done earlier in the season, it all counted on that last race and it was turned into a complete farce. If it was as clear cut as you say, it wouldn’t even be classed as a controversial race, but ultimately it was and the FIA admitted Masi had messed up, and sacked him. The end.

 

[JustinePaula]

Huh? They were level on points going into Abu Dhabi, whoever finished ahead of the other was going to be the champion. It’s as simple as that. Lewis had the better start, better race management and held the lead for the entire race until the SC. Masi’s decision making and failure to follow the process outlined in the regulations decided the race result. This will be discussed for the rest of our lifetimes and the facts will never change. Regardless of the events throughout that season, it was all to play for at the last race. Max nor Lewis deserved the championship just based on what they had done earlier in the season, it all counted on that last race and it was turned into a complete farce. If it was as clear cut as you say, it wouldn’t even be classed as a controversial race, but ultimately it was and the FIA admitted Masi had messed up, and sacked him. The end.

The point of my reply was that had Lewis finished 6th or better in Baku, or Bottas 2nd in Bahrain, Spain and Portugal, Max would not have had enough points, and car 44 would have another title.. Neither of those two involved any race directors or safety car what what... To rely on the result of 1 race is amateur hour, clearly Toto forgot about the incompetence of Lewis in Baku, and just how bad a team mate Bottas was...

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The point of my reply was that had Lewis finished 6th or better in Baku, or Bottas 2nd in Bahrain, Spain and Portugal, Max would not have had enough points, and car 44 would have another title.. Neither of those two involved any race directors or safety car what what... To rely on the result of 1 race is amateur hour, clearly Toto forgot about the incompetence of Lewis in Baku, and just how bad a team mate Bottas was...

Incompetence? A faulty brake balance shifting button was the cause of him going off in Baku and Mercedes had to make changes to his steering wheel for the French GP. It cost him dearly but was not down to his incompetence.

Relying on one race result is not amateurish, it’s the cards they are dealt based on the events of a season, some are self inflicted, some out of their control. Verstappen got the title by relying on one race result by the same measure. That is racing and if two driver go to the last race even on points, they have no option but to go for it, that’s not amateur, that’s the reality. We all watched that hoping for a Max and Lewis showdown with both drivers fighting each other to the bitter end. Unfortunately we didn’t get that and it was an anticlimactic end to what was a brilliantly fought season.

 

[JustinePaula]

Look from the perspective of car 44, you never want to go into the last race of the season hoping for a result, that is insane, what happened is that as a result of car 44 incompetence, and it was, not the first race in Baku he used that system, so he knew it, raced with it, went through a lot Free Practice sessions with it, and then as a result of him driving off the track it was the button's fault? Ok, not sure I believe that....

2nd, Bottas could have come 2nd in Bahrain, Spain, Portugal, he was in a better car, Lewis won those events.. Max 2nd, Bottas 3rd, so if car 44 can win 3 times, and why could Bottas get 3rd x 3?? Over the season it is about who is consistently "better", or who has a team mate that can take points off the opposition...

OK, putting aside the Bahrain, Spain, Portugal and Abu Dhabi results, 7th in Monaco, 2nd would have secured the title...We can look at the whole season and see just how poorly car 44 did, it was a season of should haves.. That is the point, Bottas should have done better, Merc should have designed a better tool, as they say, bad workers blame the tools..

From the perspective of the F1 fan, yes level into the last event is perfect for us, a last gasp winner takes all race, yes please, and no one will ever complain about that...

At the end of the day it is from what perspective you view the season, drivers or fans?

2023 2024, Max is WDC again, and again, maybe a new bloke in RB car number 2, some F2 graduate.. All over by mid season, Max wins with 8 races left, boring as watching paint peel... This is not what F1 is, right now, F2 is the best we have, last race of the season, and all to play for... Yahoo...

 

[laptech]

Huh? They were level on points going into Abu Dhabi, whoever finished ahead of the other was going to be the champion. It’s as simple as that. Lewis had the better start, better race management and held the lead for the entire race until the SC. Masi’s decision making and failure to follow the process outlined in the regulations decided the race result. This will be discussed for the rest of our lifetimes and the facts will never change. Regardless of the events throughout that season, it was all to play for at the last race. Max nor Lewis deserved the championship just based on what they had done earlier in the season, it all counted on that last race and it was turned into a complete farce. If it was as clear cut as you say, it wouldn’t even be classed as a controversial race, but ultimately it was and the FIA admitted Masi had messed up, and sacked him. The end.

The section in bold is fact. Why? because those old enough to remember who still follow F1, 29 years ago F1 had it's own end of season controversy that still get's talked about today amongst F1 fans. It was the 1994 season ending race in the Australian grand prix. Michael Schumacher lead Damon Hill by 1 point in the championship and it all came down to the last race. Both sped away from the rest of the pack and it was during that point Schumacher crashed into Hill causing both of them to crash out, Schumacher wins the championship by 1 point. That incident was 29 years ago and it still is a cause of contention amongst F1 fans still today. Therefore I know for a fact that the season ending race in Abu Dhabi will have the years long lasting debate as the 1994 one has.

 

[JustinePaula]

Love it, then that German Passport holder tried the same with a driver on a Canadian Passport, and the German was tossed out of the championship final results... It still highlights my very valid point that you should never want to win on the last race of the season, obs for the fans this is ideal, for drivers, yeah not so much...

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

No driver plans to try and win the championship at the last race of the season, I made that point in my previous post too. It’s a lot less stress on the driver if they win with a certain amount of races to go even if it’s less exciting for those of us watching. If the championship comes down to the last race, it’s usually been an exciting season which is why you get record viewing figures for that final race and many countries offer it FTA to get as many watching as possible.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The section in bold is fact. Why? because those old enough to remember who still follow F1, 29 years ago F1 had it's own end of season controversy that still get's talked about today amongst F1 fans. It was the 1994 season ending race in the Australian grand prix. Michael Schumacher lead Damon Hill by 1 point in the championship and it all came down to the last race. Both sped away from the rest of the pack and it was during that point Schumacher crashed into Hill causing both of them to crash out, Schumacher wins the championship by 1 point. That incident was 29 years ago and it still is a cause of contention amongst F1 fans still today. Therefore I know for a fact that the season ending race in Abu Dhabi will have the years long lasting debate as the 1994 one has.

Absolutely. Across the few F1 forums I have visited over the past 25 years, Mansell/Piquet 1986, Senna/Prost 1990, Schumacher/Hill 1994, Schumacher/Villeneuve 1997, Hamilton/Massa 2008 are all regular discussions and likely will be as long as those that are alive to remember them are still reminiscing. The same will be said for Abu Dhabi 2021. All had bad luck or controversy attached to them and will always be interesting. It’s funny, Schumacher won a further 6 championships after 1994, but his first title will always taint his legacy and even more so because of his actions at Jerez in 1997. The flawed genius, “he didn’t care how he won something, as long as he did”…

Edit: corrected due to the iPhone's abysmal autocorrect.

 

[JustinePaula]

What I was trying to explain is that 21 was a do or die, for fans this is huge, it is what we want, for teams, yeah, it sucks piles, but to say that so n so won the title as a result of the last race is insane, it was not as a result of some dude overpaid and underprepared for the event.. NO it was a sum of all the events, pit stops, hundreds if not thousands of hours of meetings, billions of liters of coffee consumed over more than a whole season...From the day the teams started designing the car for 2021, 2021 was a result of sim drivers inputs, good bad damn right ugly pits stops, yeah maybe a bad design in hardware for car 44, but that driver signed off on it, so scratch that as a reason for Baku little excursion..

F1/Liberty/FIA want viewership up, we had that and a lot lot more, nothing sells the brand more than controversy and scandal..It has been in the sport since the start, Senna often a victim of scandal and controversy.. The audience love it, it was what drove Netflix to create Drive to Survive... It is after all an entertainment business first, a "sport" 2nd...

 

[laptech]

What I was trying to explain is that 21 was a do or die, for fans this is huge, it is what we want, for teams, yeah, it sucks piles, but to say that so n so won the title as a result of the last race is insane, it was not as a result of some dude overpaid and underprepared for the event.. NO it was a sum of all the events, pit stops, hundreds if not thousands of hours of meetings, billions of liters of coffee consumed over more than a whole season...From the day the teams started designing the car for 2021, 2021 was a result of sim drivers inputs, good bad damn right ugly pits stops, yeah maybe a bad design in hardware for car 44, but that driver signed off on it, so scratch that as a reason for Baku little excursion..

F1/Liberty/FIA want viewership up, we had that and a lot lot more, nothing sells the brand more than controversy and scandal..It has been in the sport since the start, Senna often a victim of scandal and controversy.. The audience love it, it was what drove Netflix to create Drive to Survive... It is after all an entertainment business first, a "sport" 2nd...

I see the point your trying to make, the championship is won over a season, not just one race BUT surely you have to contend that a championship can be defined by one race and one race alone, yes? 2021 will always go down in history as the championship that was won in controversial circumstances, regardless of what went on with all the races before that, bad weather, pit mistakes, car breakdowns, wrong pit decisions, bad tyres, all that unfortunately no longer matters because the last race controversy dominates the whole season. I have no doubt there are some excellent pit decisions and driving instances that fans can take away from 2021 but unfortunately that no longer matters due to the controversial manner in how Max won he championship and the fact it would have been Lewis 8th championship if he had won which would have put him ahead of Schumacher on total number of grand prix titles. The fact the title was snatched away from Lewis in the manner it was commands huge talking points.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Huh? They were level on points going into Abu Dhabi, whoever finished ahead of the other was going to be the champion. It’s as simple as that. Lewis had the better start, better race management and held the lead for the entire race until the SC. Masi’s decision making and failure to follow the process outlined in the regulations decided the race result. This will be discussed for the rest of our lifetimes and the facts will never change. Regardless of the events throughout that season, it was all to play for at the last race. Max nor Lewis deserved the championship just based on what they had done earlier in the season, it all counted on that last race and it was turned into a complete farce. If it was as clear cut as you say, it wouldn’t even be classed as a controversial race, but ultimately it was and the FIA admitted Masi had messed up, and sacked him. The end.

You call it facts and The end, but recollections may vary.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

What I was trying to explain is that 21 was a do or die, for fans this is huge, it is what we want, for teams, yeah, it sucks piles, but to say that so n so won the title as a result of the last race is insane, it was not as a result of some dude overpaid and underprepared for the event.. NO it was a sum of all the events, pit stops, hundreds if not thousands of hours of meetings, billions of liters of coffee consumed over more than a whole season...From the day the teams started designing the car for 2021, 2021 was a result of sim drivers inputs, good bad damn right ugly pits stops, yeah maybe a bad design in hardware for car 44, but that driver signed off on it, so scratch that as a reason for Baku little excursion..

I disagree completely. If a season goes into the last race with two title challengers level on points, that is the race to decide the championship. Sure you can go over the mistakes or bad luck of the drivers throughout the season, but that does not add any value to the last event deciding who the winner is. Lewis had bad luck in Baku, much like Max did and both drivers were aware of the components they were using. Blaming Lewis for a faulty button that disengaged between settings is as absurd as blaming Max for picking up a puncture because he didn't avoid debris on the race track, its just unfortunate.

Mistakes made the championship exciting that year and both made an abundance. Look how many times Max missed his braking point going into corners while defending against Lewis that year for instance, going off the circuit after going too deep. Driving over the top of Lewis at Monza too. Both made howlers and that always happens between drivers who are that closely matched throughout a season.

 

[Apple fanboy]

That’s the trouble with this season. No amount of wrong decisions or bad luck will make the RB machine in the hands of Max fail to win. It’s just far too ahead of the rest.
There isn’t even the entertainment factor (for those that want that) in two rivals at each other on and off the track.

There’s just one RB driving off into the distance regardless of where he qualifies. The commentators try to make something of Perez situation or George v Lewis or whatever. But who cares? I struggle to remember who finished second most years in the 40 odd years I’ve been following F1.