^This 100%, we should instead encourage him to return to his Mac Studio cavern, along with the rest of the brigade
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MP All Models 2023 Mac Pro! [MERGED]
- Thread starter OW22
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^This 100%, we should instead encourage him to return to his Mac Studio cavern, along with the rest of the brigade
The Xeon was pretty darn quiet so I suspect this should be way more quiet particularly since ther are no graphic cards restricting air flow.
Something I'm not seeing much discussion about is internal SSD speeds. Something like OWC's Accelsior 8M2 can run at 26,000MB/s with PCIe Gen 4.
Mac Studio Thunderbolt ports top out at what, 5GB/s?
Mac Studio Thunderbolt ports top out at what, 5GB/s?
Assuming the external TB3 NVMe drive does not throttle from heat.
Outside of LucasFilm, Pixar and other Big Studios how many SMEs would need faster than next year's TB4 80Gbps?
Not only no enthusiasm for it, it's getting slammed as pointless all over YouTube.
That's not surprising because in its stock form it pretty much is.
Q1: Do you need to use PCIe cards, that aren't GPUs with your Mac?
If No - the Mac Pro is irrelevant to you.
Q2: Do you need more PCIe bandwidth than you can get from TB3 to PCIe adapter(s)?
If No - the Mac Pro probably isn't worth the price esp. if you've already got the adapters.
Q3: Do you have a set of $800 wheels from a 2019 Mac Pro that would be a shame to waste?
If Yes - convert your 2019 Mac Pro into this lovely drinks trolley that will wow you guests!
Seriously, there are some people who will answer "yes" to Q1 and Q2, especially if the MP turns out to have decent PCIe bandwidth. But I don't think they're an army.
Likely they're about 100,000 users worldwide that really need PCIe slots.
Many of em threatening to leave and taking their business elsewhere.
For those who want to know the line by line difference between the Mac Pro & Mac Studio.
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How many slots are x16 bandwidth at all times. Is there a slot utility? If so, limitations please. What's the total bandwidth available to all slots.
I don’t understand why everyone came here to complain that this machine only makes sense if you need pcie slots. That’s the whole point. If you don’t use expansion cards at internal slot speeds, why the hell would you buy this?
Looks like the last 2 slots are x16.
I'm curious how they did the PCIe lanes, though. They must be using a PCIe lane switch like Intel does.
They really need to add GPU support to make this thing rock. Maybe in 9,1
until we get people hands on testing this with various PCIE cards it seems sort of limited. PCIE slots are great but what is the compatibility like? i would imagine certain PCIE cards flat out won't work with ARM/apple silicon, at least not without some updates. you obviously can't put a GPU in it, which was a big reason to get the Mac Pro before. the customer base was already small for the intel Mac Pro, but I feel like the new M2 one is relevant to even less of them. not to mention people who already have an intel Mac Pro probably aren't in a hurry to upgrade.
either way i'm glad this has released, hopefully this pushes prices of 2019 Mac Pros down below $3k so i can finally get one.
either way i'm glad this has released, hopefully this pushes prices of 2019 Mac Pros down below $3k so i can finally get one.
I'm pretty sure it will work fine, there's still Rosetta 2 support.
Im also sure that really old PCIe cards wont work. This leave is up to the current hardware manufacturers to write new software.
Honestly Apple did a good job here, but they need to add GPU support.
Also I'm pretty sure they will do an M3 Extreme with higher clock speeds and more RAM (Maybe 384GB) next year. This is good for everyone because now Mac Pro can be on a yearly update cycle like most of their other products.
As if they could not be on a yearly update cycle when Apple was using Intel like every other OEM manufacture that sells Intel hardware. It really isn't that hard to update Intel CPUs unless they change the socket, and even then it isn't that hard. Hell the 2019 Mac Pro CPU isn't even soldered, if I wanted to blow some cash I could buy a 28-core Xeon from the same family and slap it in.
Stop apologizing for Apple being lazy.
You clearly have no idea what you're saying.
First off the Mac Pro (before the 2023) always used Xeon processors with ECC RAM.
Intel does not update Xeons as quickly as it does the consumer line of processors. Intel updates these Xeons every 2-3 years. They are not always "cutting edge" such as shrinking to 3nm for the consumer line, so Apple had to toe the line with what they could get.
So the fact that you have no clue what you're saying doesn't surprise me one bit. There is a lot of misinformation on these boards.
Just because you can buy the 28c Xeon off eBay now from offloaded servers doesn't mean anything in the real world. Apple buys their processors in OEM form. The 28c CPU from Intel cost Apple $7,000 just for the CPU alone. That's why the "upgrades" spiked so high and the base model on the 7,1 was the worse 8core Intel Xeon has to offer.
Now that they make their own CPUs, they can do whatever they want. Did they get lazy with 8,1? Yes. Does it suck that there's no PCie GPU support? Yes. Does it suck that it's capped at 192GB (for majority of users this is enough btw)? Yes. I am pretty sure that 2024-2025 we will see some of these issues addressed. We might see a M3 Extreme with 384GB RAM and GPU support (I don't see why not, they have routed GPU tracers before with switches with no issues before with Intel GPU + dGPU for years). I just think they rushed the 8,1 as is to get rid of Intel completely and hit their 2year promise mark. This is just the beginning for the 2023 Mac Pro, I feel.
I am not an Apple apologist by any means. I've been using them professionally since the mid 90s and I've had more Macs than you can imagine. And PCs. I hate what they did between 2013 and 2019, I had to go the Hackintosh route until the 2019 came out. And they abandoned that too in a way, but I'm happy with my 2019 it does everything I need it to. And I got it at a great discount (used mint)
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Rosetta2 doesn't work at the kernel/driver level. If have PCI-e cards with abandoned driver fix/upgrade support, Rosetta 2 can't fix it. [ On some previous emulators used for macOS transition there was some funky stuff that could be applied, but this tech doesn't do that. ]
Several WWDC sessions ago Apple deprecated kernel extensions. Stuff that is fully still kext only is on thinner and thinner ice every year going forward. There have been over 50 PCI-e cards that work on macOS on Apple Silicon for about a year. But some of those are still dragging on kext stop-gap that Apple had for the macOS on Apple Silicon. There is more work to do there for those.
Unless there is a revenue flow to cover new software update, those old cards with no driver update support ... are just old cards with old drivers. The whole "if ain't broke don't fix it" mentality often overlooks when something has been abandoned until it is too late.
Don't hold your breath on that 3rd party GPU support. Or discrete Apple GPUs (detached from all the other cores they have been 'unified' to. )
Some clock speed bumps. But any notion that Apple is seriously chasing some single threaded speed 'crown' probably is misguided.
I know the Xeons are not updated as quickly as the Core line, but Apple was always slow to upgrade the Mac Pro to the latest Intel had at the time; although the trashcan really screwed them; but why not just revert back to the 5,1 design and call it a day? IMO Apple should have released 2 Mac Pros, one that was Apple Silicon and an Intel one using the latest Xeon CPUs. I imagine there are quite a few people that would still go for the Intel one because of boot camp and ECC RAM; and the crazy RAM ceiling available; and yes I get that would slow Apple's secret roadmap.
I've been a long time Mac user as well. Amiga before that.
Honestly I am more concerned whether or not the PCI slots are full bandwidth or not. I'll feel a little better about the machine if that points to the right spot. The GPU could be stronger; so I will probably wait for the 9,1.
Very unlikely in the next couple of years. From 5 to 10 years, maybe Apple will change on this.
dGPUs are so alient to the dominant force inside Apple. I don't believe Apple has problem with AMD. So if Apple is going to do dGPUs in PCIe slots, they'll actually choose a less costly path by simply endorsing AMD dGPUs in Apple Silicon machines. I believe neither (Apple dGPUs or 3rd party) is going to happen until the dominant force loses steam or power.
The group of 'unified memory' fanatics inside Apple is holding the upper hand right now. Any dGPUs with local memory is destroying the 'beauty and elegance of their architecture' that they'll shed blood to defend. I believe it's very fierce ideology war going on behind the scene. But like any ideological lunatics, change can happen when they lose power.
Rosetta 2 applies to the software, I'm saying there could be issues with certain hardware not playing nice with ARM. I'm not super up to date on all my tech, but this seems like one of the first ARM devices to have PCIE support. Usually ARM is contained, things like laptops, tablets, phones etc.. But again, I'm not sure.
GPU support isn't going to happen. From what I remember, GPUs as we think of them now (AMD 7000 series, RTX 40 series,etc) are x64 architecture and aren't compatible. Modular GPUs would probably also have to be ARM, which nobody makes as far as i know.
Realistic uses would be something like a studio/engineer using it for Pro Tools and loading it up with HDX cards. However anyone who is using a Mac for serious Pro Tools usage is already using the intel Mac Pro, which is already plenty capable. Not to mention, Pro Tools just received AS native support a little over 2 months ago - and they don't make any claim that it runs faster on AS. Many plugins still don't have AS support, so they're using Rosetta 2 - fast, but not native. It just doesn't seem like a compelling upgrade. Not to mention downtime in upgrading/potential compatibility issues.
I think you may be off on the tech quite a bit. My understanding is there have been servers with arm chips that have had PCI for a while (mostly in enterprise). Also, nothing stop using the GPUs on an arm system other than drivers. As proof, seems like Lunix on arm can use those GPUs.