2024 Formula 1 Season thread

[The-Real-Deal82]

Lando has won 3 races in 123 gp's, many current drivers where able to win a GP even driving an inferior car. With an obvious faster/better car (seen in how fast he drove away from the red bull after passing) he wasn't able to make a good pass.. I do like Norris, he is one of the better drivers in the field, but he will never reach the levels of Ham, Alo or Ver.

Formula one is never clear cut and it’s often down to circumstances. Not suggesting he’s on an Alonso, Hamilton level, very few are, but he clearly has ability. I don’t believe because it took several seasons to win his first race that that can be compared to other drivers who won in inferior cars because often it’s about how a race unfolds. Ricciardo won a single race in a McLaren and was fortunate as it didn’t really demonstrate the gulf between the two of them with Lando consistently better overall. The likes of Ocon, Gasly and even the GOAT that is Maldonado won races in inferior cars and never did it again, two of them have time, if the circumstances align.

I think Lando does need to man-up against Max, but the last driver to show the sort of aggression on track that Max displays was Michael Schumacher. It takes an Alonso/Hamilton level of ability and commitment to challenge and beat that approach IMO.

 

[CWallace]

The Race explains why Max was not penalized for driving Lando off even though he himself also went off.

For this year, the FIA amended the passing rules so that the defending car does not have to leave any room for the attacking car if the attacking car is not ahead at the apex and the defending car may also leave the track in such situations.

So Max was within the rules to force Lando off track even though he himself also went off track and as Lando gained an advantage passing off track without being ahead at the apex, he was penalized. Lando arguably got off "light" as he should have been given a 10-second penalty, but the COTA stewards were feeling lenient and handing out 5-second penalties because the defending cars were also going off-track, as well.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The Race explains why Max was not penalized for driving Lando off even though he himself also went off.

For this year, the FIA amended the passing rules so that the defending car does not have to leave any room for the attacking car if the attacking car is not ahead at the apex and the defending car may also leave the track in such situations.

So Max was within the rules to force Lando off track even though he himself also went off track and as Lando gained an advantage passing off track without being ahead at the apex, he was penalized. Lando arguably got off "light" as he should have been given a 10-second penalty, but the COTA stewards were feeling lenient and handing out 5-second penalties because the defending cars were also going off-track, as well.

I think any sane racing fan can agree it’s a rather stupid rule with far too much room for interpretation. It should be leave enough room and respect your opponent. Unfortunately the large run-off areas allow this sort of aggressive driving whereas in the days of grass and gravel traps, running your opponent off the circuit fell under ‘crowding’ and it was usually the aggressor that was penalised. Hopefully Lando will switch to the inside next time and punt Max off while he forgets to hit his braking point. I’d pay to see that and it’s about 3 years overdue.

 

[CWallace]

Yes, the FIA should have kept to the 2022 rules, where the defending car had to leave room and could not leave the track to defend.

But I presume the change was made due to pressure from the teams and/or drivers to "let them race".

 

[Apple fanboy]

I like Lando as he seems a nice guy, but I agree he might need to toughen up a bit if he is going to win DWC.
Personally I’ve said all along this year is done. Max will win. He’s consistent and will pick up wins when he’s not in the fastest car (like Austin).
He does have a similar arrogance about him that Schumacher had to be fair. He’s a great driver, I just don’t like the way he comes across on or off the track.

 

[CWallace]

I believe nobody really expected a title fight in 2024 and presumed that Max and Red Bull would take the WDC and CC (though without the margins they did in 2023).

And having finished fourth in the 2023 CC, I could see McLaren's strategy was to take the fight to Mercedes and Ferrari in the CC, not Red Bull.

With Max winning seven of the first ten races, I could see McLaren continuing to follow that strategy, since even where he did not win, there were reasons other than a belief the RB20 was vulnerable (Max DNF'd in Australia, suffered floor damage in Miami and had setup issues in Monaco).

It was not until the second half of the season that the wheels started to come off the Red Bull team and they started to actually look vulnerable. And even then, it was more in the CC (mainly due to Perez continuing to be often nowhere) than it was in the WDC as Max still had a significant advantage in points. And even with no scoring a Grand Prix win since Spain, he is still consistently scoring high points in the GPs and Sprints (including wins in the later) which is keeping Lando's chances still firmly in the "mathematical" realm.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I believe nobody really expected a title fight in 2024 and presumed that Max and Red Bull would take the WDC and CC (though without the margins they did in 2023).

And having finished fourth in the 2023 CC, I could see McLaren's strategy was to take the fight to Mercedes and Ferrari in the CC, not Red Bull.

With Max winning seven of the first ten races, I could see McLaren continuing to follow that strategy, since even where he did not win, there were reasons other than a belief the RB20 was vulnerable (Max DNF'd in Australia, suffered floor damage in Miami and had setup issues in Monaco).

It was not until the second half of the season that the wheels started to come off the Red Bull team and they started to actually look vulnerable. And even then, it was more in the CC (mainly due to Perez continuing to be often nowhere) than it was in the WDC as Max still had a significant advantage in points. And even with no scoring a Grand Prix win since Spain, he is still consistently scoring high points in the GPs and Sprints (including wins in the later) which is keeping Lando's chances still firmly in the "mathematical" realm.

Indeed. Only a DNF or two from Max will make it a real title race. But that is highly unlikely imo.

 

[Glideslope]

I think any sane racing fan can agree it’s a rather stupid rule with far too much room for interpretation. It should be leave enough room and respect your opponent. Unfortunately the large run-off areas allow this sort of aggressive driving whereas in the days of grass and gravel traps, running your opponent off the circuit fell under ‘crowding’ and it was usually the aggressor that was penalised. Hopefully Lando will switch to the inside next time and punt Max off while he forgets to hit his braking point. I’d pay to see that and it’s about 3 years overdue.

I'd say 3yrs is spot on to witness Max miss his braking point.

 

[JustinePaula]

A slight shift of focus, I am wondering why everyone and the family budgie are in favour of DRS? I have not really seen it used to the degree it is hyped to be the wonder tool of the modern era.. It seems to not deliver as promised, and I think that all the teams are to a greater degree on the wrong path so to speak..

Maybe the 1 second is too long a gap, or maybe the speed is too slow for overtake, but then I am not in favour of adding spice just cause you have a bottle of spice in the kitchen.. Cars should overtake using driver talent, not some random time/speed algorithm....

Am I the only one that thinks DRS is a bit of a mistake.. To be honest, not a bit, a total mistake.. Should be scrapped in favour of push to pass like the indy cars use.. Something that can used at certain points on the track as determined by the car in the attack???

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I'd say 3yrs is spot on to witness Max miss his braking point.

It certainly seems like that when you see him go into some corners, he’s no Senna in that regard, that’s for sure.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

A slight shift of focus, I am wondering why everyone and the family budgie are in favour of DRS? I have not really seen it used to the degree it is hyped to be the wonder tool of the modern era.. It seems to not deliver as promised, and I think that all the teams are to a greater degree on the wrong path so to speak..

Maybe the 1 second is too long a gap, or maybe the speed is too slow for overtake, but then I am not in favour of adding spice just cause you have a bottle of spice in the kitchen.. Cars should overtake using driver talent, not some random time/speed algorithm....

Am I the only one that thinks DRS is a bit of a mistake.. To be honest, not a bit, a total mistake.. Should be scrapped in favour of push to pass like the indy cars use.. Something that can used at certain points on the track as determined by the car in the attack???

If you read this thread then you’d know it’s not popular.

 

[Glideslope]

It certainly seems like that when you see him go into some corners, he’s no Senna in that regard, that’s for sure.

Definitely more of a Michael than Ayrton. Although Max's defensive driving is right there with Ayrton IMO. Colapinto has a very aggressive style as well it would seem. I'm looking forward to watching his progress as well as Lawson.

 

[CWallace]

Am I the only one that thinks DRS is a bit of a mistake.. To be honest, not a bit, a total mistake.. Should be scrapped in favour of push to pass like the indy cars use.. Something that can used at certain points on the track as determined by the car in the attack???

DRS was created to address the inability of cars to pass one another down straights due to the "dirty air" washing off the car ahead. Now with the cars much more aerodynamically stable under the 2022 rules, DRS is not as critical to passing, but I presume the teams and FIA feel "every bit helps".

And F1 does have something similar to "push to pass" through using the electric portion of the drivetrain. This is how cars ahead without DRS defend against cars behind with DRS (Max was using it to hold off Lando at COTA).

 

[headlessmike]

A slight shift of focus, I am wondering why everyone and the family budgie are in favour of DRS? I have not really seen it used to the degree it is hyped to be the wonder tool of the modern era.. It seems to not deliver as promised, and I think that all the teams are to a greater degree on the wrong path so to speak..

Maybe the 1 second is too long a gap, or maybe the speed is too slow for overtake, but then I am not in favour of adding spice just cause you have a bottle of spice in the kitchen.. Cars should overtake using driver talent, not some random time/speed algorithm....

Am I the only one that thinks DRS is a bit of a mistake.. To be honest, not a bit, a total mistake.. Should be scrapped in favour of push to pass like the indy cars use.. Something that can used at certain points on the track as determined by the car in the attack???

As the aerodynamics of cars got more advanced, it made it more difficult to closely follow another car. The consequence is that overtaking "naturally" had become more difficult over time. DRS was introduced as a way to compensate for this. I think most people here would agree that DRS has made overtaking less exciting, but I'm not sure that people would like the racing without DRS either.

DRS was created to address the inability of cars to pass one another down straights due to the "dirty air" washing off the car ahead. Now with the cars much more aerodynamically stable under the 2022 rules, DRS is not as critical to passing, but I presume the teams and FIA feel "every bit helps".

And F1 does have something similar to "push to pass" through using the electric portion of the drivetrain. This is how cars ahead without DRS defend against cars behind with DRS (Max was using it to hold off Lando at COTA).

From what I’ve heard the current ground effect regulations didn’t reduce the sensitivity to dirty air as much as anticipated once the teams were able to come up with their own designs. I guess that plays a part in it.

I like the idea of having a push to pass system beyond what is achievable with today’s cars. One that gives a similar advantage as DRS but can be used anywhere and anytime during the race with a total time limit during a race, much like in Indy. That would lead to more interesting tactics than just blasting past another car down the longest straight of a course like is often the case today.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Definitely more of a Michael than Ayrton. Although Max's defensive driving is right there with Ayrton IMO. Colapinto has a very aggressive style as well it would seem. I'm looking forward to watching his progress as well as Lawson.

When I referenced Senna I meant finesse through cornering and Max doesn’t have the same power delivery and often goes too deep, especially under pressure. Back in Senna’s day there also wasn’t a one defensive move rule and he like most would weave and block to a degree that he would be black flagged in today’s rules. That famous Monaco where he fended off Mansell to win wouldn’t be allowed now and maybe Max has that element in common with him, in the loosest of sense.

 

[Glideslope]

When I referenced Senna I meant finesse through cornering and Max doesn’t have the same power delivery and often goes too deep, especially under pressure. Back in Senna’s day there also wasn’t a one defensive move rule and he like most would weave and block to a degree that he would be black flagged in today’s rules. That famous Monaco where he fended off Mansell to win wouldn’t be allowed now and maybe Max has that element in common with him, in the loosest of sense.

Points taken. That was a battle. I might differ slightly in the cornering comments. I believe the cars in 92 were easier to finesse through the corners. Even without power steering they were easier to move around, IMO. Even with power steering I believe today's cars are harder to finesse, and to stop. Definitely 2 unique individual with some similarities, and some differences.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Points taken. That was a battle. I might differ slightly in the cornering comments. I believe the cars in 92 were easier to finesse through the corners. Even without power steering they were easier to move around, IMO. Even with power steering I believe today's cars are harder to finesse, and to stop. Definitely 2 unique individual with some similarities, and some differences.

I don’t know about that. Watching onboards I think drivers now have a lot less correction to do in the cockpit these days. Even watching the pre hybrid era drivers were over working through corners to keep them on the racing line, yet now the steering is so smooth with better mechanical grip.

I think the ‘ahead at the apex’ rule needs a sensible judgement and should not be absolute. If a driver has gone in deliberately too hot to make sure they are ahead but knowing they will leave the track, the rule shouldn’t apply. Especially when it’s at the detriment of another driver, forcing them to take evasive action. Lewis faced this in Hungary with Max and Max didn’t try to hide that he thought Lewis should have gotten out of his way even though he had gone in too hot to make the corner. In Austin it worked out for Max but the stewards have now encouraged it and I think that’s a poor message.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I don’t know about that. Watching onboards I think drivers now have a lot less correction to do in the cockpit these days. Even watching the pre hybrid era drivers were over working through corners to keep them on the racing line, yet now the steering is so smooth with better mechanical grip.

I think the ‘ahead at the apex’ rule needs a sensible judgement and should not be absolute. If a driver has gone in deliberately too hot to make sure they are ahead but knowing they will leave the track, the rule shouldn’t apply. Especially when it’s at the detriment of another driver, forcing them to take evasive action. Lewis faced this in Hungary with Max and Max didn’t try to hide that he thought Lewis should have gotten out of his way even though he had gone in too hot to make the corner. In Austin it worked out for Max but the stewards have now encouraged it and I think that’s a poor message.

Exactly. I can make the apex first if I’m not going to worry about making the corner.

 

[Glideslope]

I don’t know about that. Watching onboards I think drivers now have a lot less correction to do in the cockpit these days. Even watching the pre hybrid era drivers were over working through corners to keep them on the racing line, yet now the steering is so smooth with better mechanical grip.

I think the ‘ahead at the apex’ rule needs a sensible judgement and should not be absolute. If a driver has gone in deliberately too hot to make sure they are ahead but knowing they will leave the track, the rule shouldn’t apply. Especially when it’s at the detriment of another driver, forcing them to take evasive action. Lewis faced this in Hungary with Max and Max didn’t try to hide that he thought Lewis should have gotten out of his way even though he had gone in too hot to make the corner. In Austin it worked out for Max but the stewards have now encouraged it and I think that’s a poor message.

I respect your points. However, as you stated, 'The stewards have encouraged it." This issues are with the regulatory bodies. Not the drivers. Max takes every inch he can get away with. I'm fine with that. He's not dangerous. He doesn't put people at risk. I don't really have anything to add to that.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I respect your points. However, as you stated, 'The stewards have encouraged it." This issues are with the regulatory bodies. Not the drivers. Max takes every inch he can get away with. I'm fine with that. He's not dangerous. He doesn't put people at risk. I don't really have anything to add to that.

Sorry but any driver who deliberately arrives too fast into a corner with the expectation his opponent will either crash into him or take evasive action is commiting a potentially dangerous manoeuvre in my opinion. Hungary was a good example of his arrogance not paying off in his favour and I am not convinced that would not turn to hypocrisy the moment someone else does it to him. He is fighting for a title though for the first time in 3 seasons and the pressure is much higher now.

 

[Glideslope]

Sorry but any driver who deliberately arrives too fast into a corner with the expectation his opponent will either crash into him or take evasive action is commiting a potentially dangerous manoeuvre in my opinion. Hungary was a good example of his arrogance not paying off in his favour and I am not convinced that would not turn to hypocrisy the moment someone else does it to him. He is fighting for a title though for the first time in 3 seasons and the pressure is much higher now.

No need to be sorry. I respect your view.

 

[an-other]

I 'm seeking titles to two racing movies I know exist. I've been wanting to see both for ages:

1. A movie of a season of Can Am. I remember it being advertised with Teo Fabi, Mario Andretti, Bobby Rahal, and Danny Sullivan. The Movie is Circuit.​

​

2. A movie about the British F3 season documenting the Brundle v Senna battle for the championship.​

​

any assistance on offer is appreciated.​

 

[an-other]

Has anyone tried Lapz on the Vision Pro? It's in beta/Test Flight. It's incredible. I rewatched part of Spa with the main feed at 2:00 (using an axis perpendicular to me), three in car cameras horizontally below it, the track at about 5:00 with led type light images showing everyone on the track, and the scoring off to the left. It worked really well. I did pass along some feedback, most notably to highlight cars going into the pits better.

You can see a demo/story on this on youtube: Search Lapz F1.

I have no association with the company behind Lapz.

I pretty much expect to hear derisive AVP comments. I'll find out this weekend if its sensory overload to watch an entire race this way.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

This is from the FIA F1 driving standards guidelines.

“In order for a car being overtaken to be required to give sufficient room to an overtaking car, the
overtaking car needs to have a significant portion of the car alongside the car being overtaken and
the overtaking manoeuvre must be done in a safe and controlled manner, while enabling the car to
clearly remain within the limits of the track.

When considering what is a ‘significant portion’ for an overtaking on the inside of a corner, among
the various factors that will be looked at by the stewards when exercising their discretion, the
stewards will consider if the overtaking car’s front tires are alongside the other car by no later than
the apex of the corner.”

Just because the Stewards don’t apply or even change rules when it comes to Max, doesn’t mean they aren’t there.

Ahem ...

The Race explains why Max was not penalized for driving Lando off even though he himself also went off.

For this year, the FIA amended the passing rules so that the defending car does not have to leave any room for the attacking car if the attacking car is not ahead at the apex and the defending car may also leave the track in such situations.

So Max was within the rules to force Lando off track even though he himself also went off track and as Lando gained an advantage passing off track without being ahead at the apex, he was penalized. Lando arguably got off "light" as he should have been given a 10-second penalty, but the COTA stewards were feeling lenient and handing out 5-second penalties because the defending cars were also going off-track, as well.

As I was saying...

Stupid rule, silly rule, don't agree with the rule. Sure all can apply, and I may even agree with it, but the rules are still there.

It is interesting considering McLaren has filed a request to review. I think they should have let this one rest and not fight it so much. Lando himself questioned whether he had to give the place back. Heck, even Sky analysts agreed. And it was rejected by the FIA, rightfully so in my opinion, as they really don't bring anything new to the table to review. This was a very clear-cut case.

And let's not forget this rule is for every driver on the grid, it is not just for Max Verstappen. The drivers would be silly if they don't use it to their advantage, or if they don't like it, get it changed.

 

[JustinePaula]

Tim Cook I don't think really thought about how to sell the vision pro.. It should be $0.00 if you buy X or Y, or take out a binding contract for z number of years, this is called amortization, so that say over 3 years, 36 months, the cost of the vision pro is written off, but you as Apple gain value.

For example say you take out a 36 month contract and this has to include a $120 a month product from Apple, whatever that is, icloud+tv+whatever, Apple gain income and can pay for the vision pro, it is no different to many ISP's that provide "free" routers if you take out a 2 yr contract.. Every 2 yrs, the router is replaced if you take out a 2 yr contract, if you cancel, you pay a lot for the router than if you bought it from say Walmart...

This is where I think Apple made a mistake, the vision pro should have been free on a 3 year $100 a month, with access to certain services included.. After 3 yrs the vision pro is yours..