If you follow some of the pundits, there is tension within "Red Bull corporate" about whether to keep or dismiss Horner and this whole investigation might have been a move by those who want Horner ousted.
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2024 Formula 1 Season thread
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If you follow some of the pundits, there is tension within "Red Bull corporate" about whether to keep or dismiss Horner and this whole investigation might have been a move by those who want Horner ousted.
That’s irrelevant though. Hypothetically if this lady were to appeal the decision and it is found by a third party supported by ACAS that Red Bull have not carried out the process fairly, they’d be taken to court for constructive dismissal.
This very thing happened in my company in November last year. A colleague of mine lodged a grievance against a board director for bullying. The outcome came out in favour of the director initially but upon appeal it was found that the evidence was overwhelmingly against him. My colleague actioned for constructive dismissal and they settled out of court with an exit package for him. The Director in question with us has since announced his retirement 3 years early but this was part of the agreement. So Horner isn’t out of the woods yet in theory and his contribution to the company doesn’t get him out of being culpable for misconduct in the workplace here in the UK.
All hypothetical btw, as it may be that the matter has been settled and the situation has been sorted out with Horner and the lady continuing to work together.
I think we will see some very exciting racing this season. The cars looked good in testing…
You clearly have no experience with European employment laws and protections if you truly take that from it.
How about taking the positive that no harm was done. That is a good thing right?
Being exposed to the business world for many years I know exactly how it works in the EU. It works EXACTLY as I have written until it reaches the point as well written in @The-Real-Deal82 post. If a company has someone who is instrumental to the running and success of a company/business and they are found to have done something wrong and are investigated by their own company, the person who has done wrong is very rarely found guilty. Things only change when the victim presses the matter further, goes through the companies grievance procedure and then resigns claiming constructive dismissal., as @The-Real-Deal82 point out in their post.
I agree with @The-Real-Deal82, it is far from over for Horner unless the employee withdraws their complaint or the two of them have worked something out and come to some arrangement.
Red Bull corporate will want the issue to end because as we have seen in interviews, every time Horner steps up to explain about the car or something to with RBR some reporters ask questions about the complaint which obviously detracts from what Horner was originally supposed to talk about. Red Bull do not want such distractions. If Horner and the employee have worked things out then that is great for everyone concerned but all we are hearing at the moment is one side and that is Red Bull's PR machine. We are only being partly informed and not fully informed. I will wait to see what the representatives of the employee have to say first.
It’s also important to note the legal differences between, being cleared of all alleged actions, and ending the investigation due to the charges being withdrawn.
That being said, I disagree that this is not over. Money and power always win out in 2024. F1 is the quintessential example. Always has been.………
(section in bold), I totally agree. How does the saying go 'You do not kill the golden goose'. If RBR's success in F1 has brought Red Bull corporate millions of £££ revenue in sponsorships, marketing deals, merchandising and advertising, Red Bull corporate is not about to kill the golden goose (Horner) by sacking him. Also, if the rumors are true about the contract situation between Horner and Newey, which would allow Newey to leave if Horner was to leave, there is no way Red Bull corporate is going to allow the situation where RBR's arguably two most important people could leave RBR if Horner was sacked.
Same driver line up this year with no changes. Wonder if some consistency there will mean the standings are tighter towards the end of the year.
Hamilton and Russel top FP2. Belief is the Mercedes was running their engine at "normal" power while Ferrari and Red Bull were not.
- Alonso 3rd
- Piastri 5th
- Carlos 4th and Charles 9th
- Max 6th and Perez 10th
- Norris last, but he stuffed up his run.
If this matter is ‘over’ it’s not because Formula One is more powerful than employment legislation, it’s because it’s been resolved amicably or financially. No company operating in the UK can overpower a tribunal as it is taken out of their hands.
The example I gave in the company I work for ended because lawyers told us if we tried to fight it, we’d lose £100k+. It was decided to settle at a cheaper cost as despite being a £200m a year company, we would not be favoured based on that as law is law.
If it was resolved financially then it's really the Power of Money. Tribunal or not. I respect your faith in your Tribunal System. I'm just making a hypothetical argument........
Not necessarily, if they have settled with the complainant and Horner has been cleared via an internal investigation, that’s a common outcome. It probably didn’t go to tribunal and settled internally, or it really was a misunderstanding and Christian is in the clear. We’ll never know as NDA’s are signed and Red Bull could face financial penalties for leaking confidential HR outcomes. We have pretty good employment protection in the UK, much better than The Netherlands and Germany for example. France is better again.
The power struggle or supposed power struggle came from the knowledge of the process/complaint being leaked. Maybe it’s all been sorted out.
In other news, Max looked annoyed after practice today. Hopefully it’s not smoke and mirrors and other teams have closed the gap on what is a power circuit. Not holding my breath yet though.
Imagine this scenario.
RBR car is a shocker.
It’s obvious that Mercedes is suddenly the best by miles.
They announce their 2025 driver line up.
Max & George!
How would Lewis feel!
100% this is not what will happen. But would be kind of funny.
FP3 will probably be the "true view" of where everyone stands since they will be preparing for qualifying so should be in that setup and power modes.
And, of course, it's not a Free Practice session if Max is not annoyed about something with his car.
FP3 will probably be the "true view" of where everyone stands since they will be preparing for qualifying so should be in that setup and power modes.
And, of course, it's not a Free Practice session if Max is not annoyed about something with his car.
Agreed. Max not complaining would be concerning. I’m fairly certain the RBPTH002 wasn't pumping all that hard in P1,P2.
Oh for Gods sake, this supposed power struggle at RB is getting beyond tedious, so now hundreds of messages from this investigation have been ‘leaked’ from an anonymous email. Very pathetic, if RB want him gone just fire him, and lose the championship again for several years. Some spiteful so and so threatening the ENTIRE teams success and overshadowing the entirety of F1 over a pathetic vendetta. Well I sincerely hope they find out who did this and have them charged.
The entire start to the season will be totally overshadowed by this now. The leak timed to perfection. Perhaps Just Stop Oil did it instead?
The entire start to the season will be totally overshadowed by this now. The leak timed to perfection. Perhaps Just Stop Oil did it instead?
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Except it was an external independent investigation, RB did not handle it. And you are dead wrong on this assumption too.
Yup, and besides it is a really silly thing to do. In this case with this outcome, and looking at the reactions of some journo's the act of leaking is way worse than what is contained. This is one very stupid person doing this. Also the complainant is potentially now in a very difficult position, as under the law he/she had a right to appeal. Someone making it all public does not help if that person wanted to go down that road.
I just woke up to a link on WhatsApp a friend sent me of what appears to be a Google drive evidence file of Christian Horners pestering text messages, now this could be faked, we don’t know. If it’s real though, then there is a serious issue within Red Bull. Christian and the lady complainant could be about to make an awful lot of money in damages as the internal investigation has allowed somebody who is extremely unprofessional gain access to highly confidential information and leak it. This is on the company and they will be going after the leaker, but ultimately are responsible for poor security.
In the other hand I can see why the complaint was made as quite a lot of the messages are Christian pestering the lady for pictures of herself and sending an image of his private parts. This is a shock as just a couple of weeks ago it was claimed the complaint was nothing sexual. I’d be surprised (if these are real) if Christian keeps his job from this. He was cleared by Red Bull but now the pictures are public, the complaint could easily take this to court. Not a good distraction for Red Bull on the eve of a new season at all. Somebody in that company wants to harm their employer, not just Christian Horner. Shocker.
I agree. What is happening to Horner now is something that plays out when some people who are 'in the know' disagree with the 'he did no wrong' verdict and leak information that shows he in actually did do wrong and that the investigation was designed to clear him.
According to what I read in the mainstream media, an anonymous email that had message attachments to it was sent to 149 people within the F1 community. If the messages are fake then Red Bull needs to get the police involved because someone is trying to destroy Horner's career. If the messages are real then Red Bull has a problem with someone leaking confidential information because those messages would have been only available to the independent investigating lawyer and the team working with them and senior officials within Red Bull Gmbh and RBR. The second and more important and worrying issue for Red Bull Gmbh and RBR is that if the messages are real then why was Horner found to have done nothing wrong.
The legitimacy of the messages will now have to be determined because if they are fake then it will have to investigated BUT if the messages turn out to be real then that poses some serious questions about the investigation as in were the messages made available to the investigating lawyer and if so, how did the lawyer still find in favor of Horner.
Those messages have stirred up a hornets nest. Horner has to hope those messages are fake because if not then his career is over in my opinion.
What you were sent must be fake then. If it was sexual he would never survive it no matter who he is. They said it wasn't sexual and seemed adamant on it. I would say Horner doesn't seem the type but these days looking at the famous people caught doing it you never know.
We will now get a load of fake stuff reporting to be real cause it's 'funny'. What a mess.
Exactly, the chances of appeal have now seriously been damaged. What was a private matter could now very well be public. But the messages could be totally fake too, F1 has become quite spiteful these days and people will do anything to gain an advantage, or someone with a grudge will make lies to take someone down.
It's not the teams necessarily they usually do their stuff on track or politically, but individuals or fans you need to watch out for. I recall that girl RB hired who thought it a great idea to pose on the as yet unreleased RB F1 car and have sexy photos taken off her, for her Facebook or something, all without approval or the knowledge of management or anyone else probably, the entire concept of F1 and secrecy and no doubt her contract small print entirely missing from her memory, she of course was instantly fired for leaking the car in online photos. But it shows that even in F1 you can get some total idiots.
Really annoyed about this. Same if it was any other team, if a team did arrange for the leak then they should be permanently banned from the sport and charged. But I don't think it will be another team. Again if the leaks are real.