They could nullify the Singapore GP if that is what Massa wants, but the season result remains as it is, as they can't revoke a championship that has been awarded anyway. Massa gets his result and Lewis keeps the title he won fairly.
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2024 Formula 1 Season thread
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If Massa was to win the court case then if anyone has a strong claim to do the same and sue F1 then it is Lewis Hamilton for losing the 2021 title due to the race director bending the rules at the Abu Dhabi GP which allowed Max Verstappen to win the championship. F1 claimed it was 'human error' but the majority knew the rules were bent in favor of Red Bull winning.
Therefore if Massa was to win his court case I have no doubt Hamilton's team will be looking at that and thinking to themselves 'Crashgate' resulted in Massa losing the race claiming he lost due to the actions of someone cheating (Piquet Jr) and we (Hamilton) lost due the actions of the race director cheating.' they would be saying there is no difference between the two, both losing due to the actions of cheats. So yes, Massa's court case will be very very interesting.
Also, I am wondering if the media are trying to get Horner sacked because all I keep seeing in the sports pages is articles saying that Red Bull 'could' be on the verge of sacking Horner but Red Bull have put out a statement saying he will not be fired, or words to that effect.
Therefore if Massa was to win his court case I have no doubt Hamilton's team will be looking at that and thinking to themselves 'Crashgate' resulted in Massa losing the race claiming he lost due to the actions of someone cheating (Piquet Jr) and we (Hamilton) lost due the actions of the race director cheating.' they would be saying there is no difference between the two, both losing due to the actions of cheats. So yes, Massa's court case will be very very interesting.
Also, I am wondering if the media are trying to get Horner sacked because all I keep seeing in the sports pages is articles saying that Red Bull 'could' be on the verge of sacking Horner but Red Bull have put out a statement saying he will not be fired, or words to that effect.
They could, but they won't. Imagine ending up with Massa officially having more points but Lewis retaining his WDC for 2008.
Something will have to be done because Bernie Ecclestone has forced F1's hands into do something by admitting that both he and Max Mosely knew about Piquet Jr deliberately crashing to bring out the safety car as a way to help Alonso and yet neither of them did anything about it because they did not want a scandal at the time. Well they have got a scandal now and it cannot be brushed under the carpet because it will not go away. Fans and supporters of the sport will demand something is done. How can people watch F1 if the actions of cheats are allowed to prosper.
They could what? They can't change a championship result once it has been awarded, especially nearly 2 decades later.
If Massa ended up with more points for 2008 because of a legal case, it wouldn't change the fact he wasn't good enough to win the title that year and didn't. It would simply be a bittersweet consolation. It also wouldn't change the fact there was more than one race that year where Felipe gained advantages through dodgy stewarding. He is wasting his retirement fund on this and all thanks to Bernie stirring the pot and is on record refusing to admit it in court anyway. The other person in the equation, Max Mosley is dead.
Great read:
www.the-race.com
The Leclerc comparison that shows how good Bearman really was
Highly-rated though Ollie Bearman might be, his shock F1 debut exceeded all expectations. Scott Mitchell-Malm looks beyond the headline result to pick out the best parts of his race
www.the-race.com
I could see Massa's lawyers arguing that Piquet Jr. crashing triggered the Safety Car which Ferrari was not ready for and hence caused the team to screw up the pit stop. But the defense could argue that teams should expect Safety Cars at any moment and be ready to react so...
As @The-Real-Deal82 noted, championships are never truly won or lost on a single event. Max was comfortably in the lead of the 2021 WDC going into Silverstone and it was Max's DNF and Lewis' win there that opened the path for Lewis to claw himself back into a dead-tie going into Abu Dhabi. If Max had scored significant points (or even won) Silverstone he might have continued his momentum all the way to the WDC. Or if he has finished higher than 9th at HUN (a race Lewis finished 2nd) or if the Belgian Grand Prix had actually awarded full points. Or if Max or Lewis had not taken each other out at Monza.
As someone wise once said.
“You can’t change the past. But you can learn from it!”
“You can’t change the past. But you can learn from it!”
The FIA has the power to revoke titles. This has happened countless times in other major sporting events years after they took place, like the Olympics or Tour de France to name a few. The complicating factor is that Lewis and McLaren didn't cheat, at least not in 2008 that we know of (I'm look at you 2007). Since Renault did, that would in many other sports lead to Alonso's win in Singapore being retroactively struck and the result being nullified. But that would make Massa the WDC. I know that over the course of a season, no single race makes of breaks a champion, but this one race really could make a difference and there is precedence for this kind of thing in other sports. I'm not saying that this necessarily should happen though.
I agree with the rest of you that the outcome of the 2008 season will not change, Lewis will still be the winner BUT Massa does have a strong case against F1 and Bernie Ecclestone with regards to the rules of the sport because in the 2023 interview Ecclestone gave to a F1 media outlet he is quoted as saying '“We had enough information in time to investigate the matter. According to the statutes, we should have cancelled the race in Singapore under these conditions.'. That implies that F1 did not follow it's own rules into the investigation and the outcome of the investigation which is a point Massa makes in his claim against F1 and Bernie Ecclestone.
Granted this will rely on Ecclestone's testimony but what is the betting he will say he cannot remember the interview or what he said in it. Even if the notes of the interview are read back to him, if he does not remember saying what he said then it put's into doubt the validity of what he said in the interview. It is therefore Massa could win on a technicality of F1 not following it's own rules but still it does mean Massa would have won the championship because there was 3 races remaining and anything could have happened in those 3 races. Would Massa get any money if F1 was found to have broken it's own rules. I don't really know.
Granted this will rely on Ecclestone's testimony but what is the betting he will say he cannot remember the interview or what he said in it. Even if the notes of the interview are read back to him, if he does not remember saying what he said then it put's into doubt the validity of what he said in the interview. It is therefore Massa could win on a technicality of F1 not following it's own rules but still it does mean Massa would have won the championship because there was 3 races remaining and anything could have happened in those 3 races. Would Massa get any money if F1 was found to have broken it's own rules. I don't really know.
If Massa won the case and got awarded the championship, I would hope Lewis would counter sue over Spa and Valencia where Massa got many more points than he deserved, due to poor stewarding in an era where McLaren had recently been on the receiving end of a piece of Mosley retribution. What a mess that would be.
Well, it appears that Marko is back to himself. All in one day today:
Lectured Fredrick on how “He needs to find a team for Oliver now that he wasted so much on signing Lewis.”
Publicly humiliated Daniel on his “slow start.”
Looks like RB wants Oliver in the VISA Mobile in 2025?
Lectured Fredrick on how “He needs to find a team for Oliver now that he wasted so much on signing Lewis.”
Publicly humiliated Daniel on his “slow start.”
Looks like RB wants Oliver in the VISA Mobile in 2025?
If Haas is not as bad as we (and they) expected, I think it is pretty safe to presume that Oliver will end up there for 2025 and 2026.
Is he still joint reserve driver for Ferrari and Haas still? I think he’ll replace Magnussen there personally too. It would be a good apprenticeship for him for a season I think.
Agreed. I believe Haas is most likely for Oliver. I hope he materializes. I think he exhibits allot of natural potential…
Agreed, he is doing well in F2 and had a great first race in F1. There have been others similar to that; Nyck de Vries...Heck, Daniel Ricciardo did an astonishing test to see if he was ready. Doing this week in week out, with consistency, is a different level. That is not to say he isn't promising, and can't do it, but I agree a bit too presumptuous.
He already has a place in 2 F1 teams as it stands. Most drivers only get a test session or two to display their talents and are picked based on that and their junior performances. I'd say Oliver was given the chance of a lifetime and demonstrated he was able to adapt under pressure and produce a solid drive. He has been on the paddocks radar for a while now and there is nothing presumptunous about suggesting he deserves a seat. I think Haas is a good option as there is no space at Ferrari.
The plan (which remains in place, to the best of my knowledge) is that Oliver would do a full season of F2 this year and then, presuming he performed well, would then be promoted to Haas, as the Scuderia would have LeClerc and Sainz (now Hamilton) under contract through at least 2026.
The "wrinkle" now is that with Oliver doing so well at Jeddah, he is now drawing attention from Team Principals other than Vasseur. As a Ferrari Academy driver he is under contract to the Scuderia, but as we have seen many times, contracts can be voided or have "escape clauses". And I am sure Vasseur does not want to find himself with Bearman in a similar situation that Wolff found himself with Verstappen in losing him to another team due to not having an open seat.
I’d rather see Oliver in a Ferrari and win come 2026 / 27. RB can keep their hands off! But most likely he will be in a Haas or something for 2 or 3 years first.
DRIVER STANDINGS
This looks like the points tally after an entire season in the 1980s. Max already has more points and more wins than Rosberg did when he on the 1982 WDC.