2024 Formula 1 Season thread

[pachyderm]

I doubt with all the best intention Newey will be successful, not with new regs, he is 65 yrs old, and time for him to bugger off quite frankly, time for him to enjoy the successful build of his boat, take the time to visit France, give up F1, he has had his time, and time for noobs to make a name.. The last thing we want is for him to go off to some team, Williams and it is slower than frozen mushy peas.. It could happen, here is a bloke that had success, then goes to Williams/Ferrari, and the team is useless.. He is blamed, when it is 99.99% the meat in the seat... After all Newey is just 1 tooth in the cog, many folks with better PHD's and faster brains than him, he can only do so much.. Him to another team is a mistake.. Retirement at 65 should be mandatory, he turns 65, end of the season, he turns in his ID card, his parking pass, his laptops/desktop passwords expire... Gone..

There is a reason I have you on "ignore".

 

[JustinePaula]

You have every right..

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Great, that is your view, thank you, it has nothing to do with experience, of which he is maybe the most experienced in F1, it is more about growing the sport for a new generation of drivers.. Retirement should be mandatory at 65, that is more than 40 years, and long enough.. Sometimes taking something away is not cruel, but kind.. It grows the sport.. He was once a young 20 yr old looking to become something, so he had his time, now thanks for your service, go and enjoy the harvest of your decades of labour, he can be free to wander the pits, makes comments, be on commentary, free to enjoy the work of others..

As someone who employs others in my various businesses, I couldn't disagree more with you. A good team is made of diversity. Diversity of backgrounds, and most definitely also diversity of age. Or as my Oma used to say, variety is the spice of life...

 

[JustinePaula]

As someone who employs others in my various businesses, I couldn't disagree more with you. A good team is made of diversity. Diversity of backgrounds, and most definitely also diversity of age. Or as my Oma used to say, variety is the spice of life...

Age to a point, what you are missing out on, is the excitement of new ideas, maybe even better, of watching the sport develop in new and exciting ways, can you imagine how frustrating it must be for the young PHD's to be told by some bloke in his mid 60's.. Look it is not a personal thing about Newey, it is about the sport, we should age out everyone for their own benefit, you might not want to go, but if forced then you adapt, I think that had Newey known that 2025 been his last season, he would have bailed in long before, made 1 last design, before going on his way...

Retirement does 2 things, gives the old rest, and 2nd and more importantly, it creates a vacuum, it allows a space at the top, for someone in their 50's a chance to be at the top for 15 years, and that is a great thing.. I see it as a positive for the sport, Newey or any retiree could be involved in other aspects, Academy, F2-F4. Something to get up in the morning, but not the insanity of F1.. I know you will disagree, but I am concerned on the reason you disagee.. It is not ageism, that is a vastly different concept, and nothing to do with my view, NOTHING..

I know ageism well, experienced it, so yeah, I have brutal experience of ageism. So that is why I am saying he should go, and not be involved cause he is harming the sport, more than aiding it...Actually no, I sort of take back a bit of what I said, his sticking around is causing ageism in that he is stopping the careers of others, as is Lewis/Alonso and those near to 40, they have had long careers, and preventing the careers of the 18/19/20 yr olds in F2/F3.. Lewis, Alonso can go and do Indy/E-Prix, WEC, bikes, trucks, anything but F1.. They not me are ageist..

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Great, that is your view, thank you, it has nothing to do with experience, of which he is maybe the most experienced in F1, it is more about growing the sport for a new generation of drivers.. Retirement should be mandatory at 65, that is more than 40 years, and long enough.. Sometimes taking something away is not cruel, but kind.. It grows the sport.. He was once a young 20 yr old looking to become something, so he had his time, now thanks for your service, go and enjoy the harvest of your decades of labour, he can be free to wander the pits, makes comments, be on commentary, free to enjoy the work of others..

You do realise all those young designers and engineers working with Adrian are developing themselves via his vast experience and knowledge? Once again on this thread making ridiculous attention seeking comments. Is it because this thread is too civil or something? Social media is full of this sort of nonsense, why not do it there where you’ll get all the reactions you need?

 

[Apple fanboy]

You do realise all those young designers and engineers working with Adrian are developing themselves via his vast experience and knowledge? Once again on this thread making ridiculous attention seeking comments. Is it because this thread is too civil or something? Social media is full of this sort of nonsense, why not do it there where you’ll get all the reactions you need?

Exactly. People learn from others. If I was a 20 or 30 something F1 engineer I’d love to work with Adrian. Only a fool would want to get rid of his vast talent.
The current RBR hardly makes you think his talent is waning because he hit a certain age.

 

[JustinePaula]

You do realise all those young designers and engineers working with Adrian are developing themselves via his vast experience and knowledge? Once again on this thread making ridiculous attention seeking comments. Is it because this thread is too civil or something? Social media is full of this sort of nonsense, why not do it there where you’ll get all the reactions you need?

Yes, but as long as he is in the top job, they cannot be.. It is not a hard concept, ok, just imagine he has a crisis of health, and cannot work, then? There is a reason we have retirement for pilots, even if the day before they pass the health screening, you hit the age of retirement, you are banned from the cockpit, it is not about you, but it is for the benefit of the industry.. There are places for his experience.. F1 should age out..

He can guest lecture at university, offer courses, but as a grunt in the cog of the business of F1, it is time to go, let others take over, apply new ideas.. You are way too emotional about this, and this is not an emotional aspect.. It is healthy and vital to all parties, age of retirement should be 65, for staff, drivers age out of F1, 40.. 20 yrs on the tour is enough.. since 2000, the most mature person in F1, the most I respect, Nico Rosberg, he retired for the right reasons, is free to do as he pleases, has no issues with teams..

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Exactly. People learn from others. If I was a 20 or 30 something F1 engineer I’d love to work with Adrian. Only a fool would want to get rid of his vast talent.
The current RBR hardly makes you think his talent is waning because he hit a certain age.

Indeed, I’ve been a mechanical design engineer for the past 20 years since graduating and most of my knowledge has been acquired from working closely with lead and principle engineers who are in the 50’s, 60’s and even 70’s. Someone like Adrian who has seen the evolution of F1 cars since 1983 is very valuable, even if just in a consultancy role. F1 would be a poorer sport without him in it and I know that day will come, but he’s still top of his game. I don’t care which team he goes to, but I’d like to admire his input for as long as possible.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Yes, but as long as he is in the top job, they cannot be.. It is not a hard concept, ok, just imagine he has a crisis of health, and cannot work, then? There is a reason we have retirement for pilots, even if the day before they pass the health screening, you hit the age of retirement, you are banned from the cockpit, it is not about you, but it is for the benefit of the industry.. There are places for his experience.. F1 should age out..

He can guest lecture at university, offer courses, but as a grunt in the cog of the business of F1, it is time to go, let others take over, apply new ideas.. You are way too emotional about this, and this is not an emotional aspect.. It is healthy and vital to all parties, age of retirement should be 65, for staff, drivers age out of F1, 40.. 20 yrs on the tour is enough.. since 2000, the most mature person in F1, the most I respect, Nico Rosberg, he retired for the right reasons, is free to do as he pleases, has no issues with teams..

Newey works with dozens of lead engineers and technical managers under his leadership. There is also every other team on the grid with perhaps younger technical direction who are not beating Red Bull with their fresh and younger ideas. The guy has helped win 27 world championships and this year his car is dominating by a long margin. As boring as that might be from a racing perspective, it’s the ultimate goal for every team and for the past 3 years he’s been the best, at 65 years old.

Nico retired because he knew he wouldn’t beat Lewis again unless there was mechanical issues helping him to another title and 2016 exhausted him mentally. Fair play to him he walked away and has a young family, but he didn’t retire at 33 because he thought he was too old.

 

[headlessmike]

Indeed, I’ve been a mechanical design engineer for the past 20 years since graduating and most of my knowledge has been acquired from working closely with lead and principle engineers who are in the 50’s, 60’s and even 70’s. Someone like Adrian who has seen the evolution of F1 cars since 1983 is very valuable, even if just in a consultancy role. F1 would be a poorer sport without him in it and I know that day will come, but he’s still top of his game. I don’t care which team he goes to, but I’d like to admire his input for as long as possible.

It can work both ways. The average age of engineers on the Apollo program of the 1960s was just 26 because it was an entirely new area where nobody had prior experience. When working on the cutting edge it can sometimes be a benefit to not be stuck with old mindsets.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

It can work both ways. The average age of engineers on the Apollo program of the 1960s was just 26 because it was an entirely new area where nobody had prior experience. When working on the cutting edge it can sometimes be a benefit to not be stuck with old mindsets.

That is where diversity of age is so useful. Especially if you hire well, and have those at the top of their game. Any stobourn engineer who won't change their ways because they've always done it like that isn't in this game I'd say. Perhaps a little backstreet garage...

 

[JustinePaula]

Thank you, to Red Bull he has given a lot, but what we cannot know, and what was pointed out by Ted in his notebook, was there are issues within Red Bull, and maybe dear ol Newey is not as pleasant to work with, or maybe there are clashes of ideas, and maybe daddy is taking sides, and this is a source of conflict, it happens in corporate's, you have clans, you are one one side or the other, it happens a lot..

Maybe he doesn't like a certain idea from a department, or is just tired of the same ol canteen grub, and thinks it might be better elsewhere.. But personally, you sometimes need to step in, age 65 and say, thanks...

My dad told me of the day he retired, they held a small party in the rec room, then at 5pm, 2 security came and asked my dad to vacate as his access card had been terminated, before coming the rec room, his computer was wiped, his log in deleted, and at 5pm, as he drove out of the parking, was stopped and the sticker removed from the car..

He drove home, knowing that whatever happens, he has no responsibility, that he can relax for the 1st time since his teens. He said they way they did it, was absolutely perfect, that chapter of his life was closed, he came home, and wiped all the work numbers, work apps from his phone, deleted all the emails, done with the job.. Free to do what he wanted, no one from work to contact him, and no one did...

As long as he is in the top job, Newey or anyone of that age, they are preventing growth, they are harming not helping.. It seems insane to throw away talent, but sometimes you need to do this, to start over, with new rules, as the industry of F1 is about to do.. Young bright talent will think fast, think smart, have the chance to shine...It is better to do it like I suggest than for somone to have a medical crisis and then... How sad that would be..

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Thank you, to Red Bull he has given a lot, but what we cannot know, and what was pointed out by Ted in his notebook, was there are issues within Red Bull, and maybe dear ol Newey is not as pleasant to work with, or maybe there are clashes of ideas, and maybe daddy is taking sides, and this is a source of conflict, it happens in corporate's, you have clans, you are one one side or the other, it happens a lot..

Or maybe none of the above, and the chap is just retiring or focussing on pet projects just like you desire. I don't believe a word that comes out of Ted...Nor any of the other so called journalists, not with this story, not with horner, not with the current rumours surrounding Max. To me this is all very much a case of if we can't win on track lets try different tactics. It is all just speculation by people who aren't even close enough to know anything.

Maybe he doesn't like a certain idea from a department, or is just tired of the same ol canteen grub, and thinks it might be better elsewhere.. But personally, you sometimes need to step in, age 65 and say, thanks...

My dad told me of the day he retired, they held a small party in the rec room, then at 5pm, 2 security came and asked my dad to vacate as his access card had been terminated, before coming the rec room, his computer was wiped, his log in deleted, and at 5pm, as he drove out of the parking, was stopped and the sticker removed from the car..

He drove home, knowing that whatever happens, he has no responsibility, that he can relax for the 1st time since his teens. He said they way they did it, was absolutely perfect, that chapter of his life was closed, he came home, and wiped all the work numbers, work apps from his phone, deleted all the emails, done with the job.. Free to do what he wanted, no one from work to contact him, and no one did...

As long as he is in the top job, Newey or anyone of that age, they are preventing growth, they are harming not helping.. It seems insane to throw away talent, but sometimes you need to do this, to start over, with new rules, as the industry of F1 is about to do.. Young bright talent will think fast, think smart, have the chance to shine...It is better to do it like I suggest than for somone to have a medical crisis and then... How sad that would be..

I really don't agree that they are preventing growth, and harming. It is possible, and perhaps that is your experience, and perhaps you are even reflecting on your own behaviours. Who knows. But it really doesn't have to be like that.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

It can work both ways. The average age of engineers on the Apollo program of the 1960s was just 26 because it was an entirely new area where nobody had prior experience. When working on the cutting edge it can sometimes be a benefit to not be stuck with old mindsets.

I’ve encountered fewer of those as I’m in automotive where there is a constant pressure for innovation. It’s usually the manufacturing side that hate change but in other engineering fields I’m sure there are plenty of engineers who are stubborn and stuck in the past. It’s comical that some seem to think Newey is past it seeing as a car he’s worked on is currently a second a lap quicker than the rest of the grid.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I’ve encountered fewer of those as I’m in automotive where there is a constant pressure for innovation. It’s usually the manufacturing side that hate change but in other engineering fields I’m sure there are plenty of engineers who are stubborn and stuck in the past. It’s comical that some seem to think Newey is past it seeing as a car he’s worked on is currently a second a lap quicker than the rest of the grid.

Indeed. I mean every team and driver wants him to join their team. But I guess some one outside the sport must know more than all those people.
Clearly he is past it and his out of date ideas are holding the team back. Must be why RBR are struggling so much this season. I’m surprised his design manages to even finish the race.

 

[CWallace]

I am really struggling to understand the point of the Sprint, here you have yes it was exciting, as drinking alcohol is, but it can quickly become serious, and yesterday this was just that, there is no time between the end of the 19 lap farce and the start of Qualifying, so you end up with sub standard cars going for pole etc...

At least parc fermé rules do not come into effect until just before GP Qualifying in 2024, so the teams can use both Sprint Qualifying and the Sprint Race to help determine setup for the GP sessions. One could argue a 19 lap Sprint race is more relevant to determine how the car will respond in the actual race than just tooling along amongst a field where some are doing race simulations and others are doing qualifying simulations and nobody is really pushing.

 

[CWallace]

The FIA has confirmed that they have received an FIA Super License application for Kimi Antonelli alongside an age waiver to allow it to be granted prior to his 18th birthday on 25 August.

While there was some speculation that Kimi would replace Logan at Williams from Imola onwards, FP1Will believes that it could be to allow Kimi to drive the W15 during FP1 as well as other races throughout the year and that he would not move to Williams until 2025.

Will also suggested that Mercedes might sign Bottas for 2025 on a one-year contract and then promote Antonelli to the Silver Arrows at the start of the 2026 season. This makes a fair bit of sense to me, as Bottas knows Audi is not going to keep him and a year at Mercedes could help him make a case for a 2026 drive with someone else.

I personally no longer see Sainz going to Mercedes. He will demand at a minimum a two-year contract with a one-year option and I do not believe Mercedes wants to keep Antonelli waiting at Williams until 2027 or 2028 when they could have him in 2026 to help develop the car beside George.

There are still the outlier options for Sainz at Red Bull (if Perez flounders again) or Aston (if Honda does not make an offer too lucrative to refuse to take Tsunoda to replace Lance or Alonso decides to retire and become a team consultant / management), but I really think he is going to end up with Stake/Audi next year. This means he will likely never win a WDC, but he will at least be paid like he had. 😁

 

[Glideslope]

Lewis laughing his head off in the interview after that, what else can he do? lol He’s just enjoying it this year knowing he’s not in anything for wins, reminds of Raikkonen towards the end. On to 2025 and then 2026 in a Newey influenced Ferrari, or perhaps not lol.

Interesting to read Eddie Jordan was involved with getting his friend Newey out of his contract early at Red Bull.

Yes. It was a good read.

But with the budget cap in place, it is more difficult for Adrian Newey to build a new car that is faster than his current Red Bull car which has many years of huge sums of money poured into it.

Ferrari will get closer to Red Bull, but Red Bull will still be the dominant car as Andrian Newey simply was able to do more work back then for Red Bull.

Let‘s actually wait until he announces where, and when. Ferrari is not a given.

It can work both ways. The average age of engineers on the Apollo program of the 1960s was just 26 because it was an entirely new area where nobody had prior experience. When working on the cutting edge it can sometimes be a benefit to not be stuck with old mindsets.

One of our children is currently in a similar arena. When we have discussions with them we can observe how different their processes are. They are more inclined to think outside the box, and rely on their own instincts to push the envelope. They seek out their own space within the Team Structure. I can‘t see anything they are deprived of.

 

[Glideslope]

The FIA has confirmed that they have received an FIA Super License application for Kimi Antonelli alongside an age waiver to allow it to be granted prior to his 18th birthday on 25 August.

While there was some speculation that Kimi would replace Logan at Williams from Imola onwards, FP1Will believes that it could be to allow Kimi to drive the W15 during FP1 as well as other races throughout the year and that he would not move to Williams until 2025.

Will also suggested that Mercedes might sign Bottas for 2025 on a one-year contract and then promote Antonelli to the Silver Arrows at the start of the 2026 season. This makes a fair bit of sense to me, as Bottas knows Audi is not going to keep him and a year at Mercedes could help him make a case for a 2026 drive with someone else.

I personally no longer see Sainz going to Mercedes. He will demand at a minimum a two-year contract with a one-year option and I do not believe Mercedes wants to keep Antonelli waiting at Williams until 2027 or 2028 when they could have him in 2026 to help develop the car beside George.

There are still the outlier options for Sainz at Red Bull (if Perez flounders again) or Aston (if Honda does not make an offer too lucrative to refuse to take Tsunoda to replace Lance or Alonso decides to retire and become a team consultant / management), but I really think he is going to end up with Stake/Audi next year. This means he will likely never win a WDC, but he will at least be paid like he had. 😁

Interesting. I can see the benefits of placing him in the W15 during FP’s and a few races. Assuming the W16 is drivable on 2025 it would indeed help Bottas with 2026. Could be a win, win.

 

[CWallace]

So McLaren is hosting Donald Trump at the Grand Prix.

Part of me hopes Norris and Piastri take each other out in the first corner, but just because Team Management are doofuses should not penalize the drivers.

 

[Harry Haller]

So McLaren is hosting Donald Trump at the Grand Prix.

Part of me hopes Norris and Piastri take each other out in the first corner, but just because Team Management are doofuses should not penalize the drivers.

Be interesting to see if TDS get your post pulled.
Nice pass by Oscar on Chuck.
In the meantime Max cruises off into the sunset.
Yawn.

 

[CWallace]

So Max can be beaten!

Brilliant drive by Lando to comfortably pull away from Max after the Safety Car and build an insurmountable gap.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

So Max can be beaten!

Brilliant drive by Lando to comfortably pull away from Max after the Safety Car and build an insurmountable gap.

Yes, what a race. Nothing boring about that. Really well done by Lando and the team. Well deserved and was too long coming for Lando. Shame about Piastri.

Just shows, anything can happen. Never give up.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Great to read that Lando finally has the duck off his back, might actually watch the highlights of this one. Great stuff, he’s an amazing talent

 

[Glideslope]

Congratulations to Lando. A little bit of luck, but I think he had the pace without it. Max agreed in his post race. You can tell he was honestly happy for Lando. It was nice to see.

I was surprised Chuck didn’t have anything for Max after the Safety Car.

Some good racing at times. Is this an Inflection point? Has the wind changed? What will the RB20 Imola Upgrade bring? Was it simply luck?

On to Imola………