2024 Formula 1 Season thread

[The-Real-Deal82]

It's funny that when the RB was clearly the best car he was usually in the top 5, if not 2nd.

Now that it seems a couple of teams have caught up, he's struggling.

I think that’s coincidence more than anything but he’s been struggling since mid way through last season. Starts a season well but goes off the boil by the mid point. Red Bull historically support one driver so they usually apply the pressure internally when drivers underperform and I don’t doubt someone else will be in that seat by or at the seasons end.

 

[Glideslope]

Sergio isn’t right. The car clear is designed as a fast car. Sure definitely not an easy car. And as the others caught up it is really showing how bad Sergio is at adapting to a fast car. You’d have thought that as this is his job he had to adapt.

The area others have caught up in with the most impact is their rear suspensions. Allot of commentary on the new front wings on the W15 and MCL38. However, front loading has allot of impact on the rear as we all know. You can see the W15 and the MCL38 really putting the power down on exit now. It's all rear suspension geometry. I've stated this since the RB18.

The real strength of the RB18, 19, 20 has been its suspension. The ability to run very low without too much bottoming, allowing the ride higher without proposing.

I don't think Sergio will ever adapt to the RB20. It's probably best for his career to leave. The car has been designed for Max's driving style since the RB18. As we know, Max loves a car that has Knife Edge Steering and is on the edge most of the time. While this can be the quickest way around it is a struggle for some drivers that simply can't be mastered. I think Sergio's need for balance is too removed for Max's definition to be overcome.

Each upgrade we have seen in 2024 moves the chassis closer to Max. Sergio is sent back to the drawing board to relearn every time. I like Sergio, he is a very good driver, but you can only try to pound a square peg into a round hole for so long......

Edit: I also don't believe Sergio would have been offered a new contract if Jos and Max were not so opposed to Carlos joining the team.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The area others have caught up in with the most impact is their rear suspensions. Allot of commentary on the new front wings on the W15 and MCL38. However, front loading has allot of impact on the rear as we all know. You can see the W15 and the MCL38 really putting the power down on exit now. It's all rear suspension geometry. I've stated this since the RB18.

The real strength of the RB18, 19, 20 has been its suspension. The ability to run very low without too much bottoming, allowing the ride higher without proposing.

I don't think Sergio will ever adapt to the RB20. It's probably best for his career to leave. The car has been designed for Max's driving style since the RB18. As we know, Max loves a car that has Knife Edge Steering and is on the edge most of the time. While this can be the quickest way around it is a struggle for some drivers that simply can't be mastered. I think Sergio's need for balance is too removed for Max's definition to be overcome.

Each upgrade we have seen in 2024 moves the chassis closer to Max. Sergio is sent back to the drawing board to relearn every time. I like Sergio, he is a very good driver, but you can only try to pound a square peg into a round hole for so long......

Edit: I also don't believe Sergio would have been offered a new contract if Jos and Max were not so opposed to Carlos joining the team.

Newey has been on the record. The car is not designed for max. The car is designed to be fast. And fast is pointy and yes Max like pointy. But as a professional Sergio (and anyone else) should adapt.

Way too much attention is given to Jos. Max is on the record that he doesn’t care. And we can see and hear it that he craves competition.

 

[CWallace]

Just watched the 20 worst/best pit lane fails from F1 tv, way too many belong to a team in red based in Italy...

A Ferrari pit stop is like watching The Three Stooges working a gas station...

 

[Glideslope]

Newey has been on the record. The car is not designed for max. The car is designed to be fast. And fast is pointy and yes Max like pointy. But as a professional Sergio (and anyone else) should adapt.

Way too much attention is given to Jos. Max is on the record that he doesn’t care. And we can see and hear it that he craves competition.

That’s Fair.

 

[Glideslope]

Ocon is in at Haas for 2025.

Will K-Mag be able to find a new ride, or has his approach sent him to a new series???????

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Ocon is in at Haas for 2025.

Will K-Mag be able to find a new ride, or has his approach sent him to a new series???????

Oooh Ollie and Esteban... Wow. I'm surprised someone gave Ocon a seat. I wonder for how long.

 

[pachyderm]

Oooh Ollie and Esteban... Wow. I'm surprised someone gave Ocon a seat. I wonder for how long.

Same.

 

[Glideslope]

Oooh Ollie and Esteban... Wow. I'm surprised someone gave Ocon a seat. I wonder for how long.

I’ve searched for further details but nothing has popped. Source was credible.

Also, looking like Ferrari is off the table for Newey as Benedetto Vigna has refused to approve the level of control Newey is requesting within the company (Vintage Ferrari.) Salary is also an issue. I’m sure the budget is tight next year after signing Lewis.

I still predict AMR for Adrian.

 

[CWallace]

I still predict AMR for Adrian.

ARAMCO can outbid anyone else, but one wonders if their current driver line-up is...inspiring enough to interest Newey.

With McLaren ascendent at the moment, I could see a return to that team for him.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I’ve searched for further details but nothing has popped. Source was credible.

Oh definitely, not doubting the source at all. I'm just surprised anyone gave Esteban Ocon a seat. For Haas I hope he has learned his lesson.

Also, looking like Ferrari is off the table for Newey as Benedetto Vigna has refused to approve the level of control Newey is requesting within the company (Vintage Ferrari.) Salary is also an issue. I’m sure the budget is tight next year after signing Lewis.

I still predict AMR for Adrian.

I still can't call Newey. I could be wrong, but I don't think he'll be directly involved in a front line every race weekend at the tracks job with any F1 team.

 

[Glideslope]

ARAMCO can outbid anyone else, but one wonders if their current driver line-up is...inspiring enough to interest Newey.

With McLaren ascendent at the moment, I could see a return to that team for him.

I don't see Adrian working with Zak “Tattoo” Brown.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I don't see Adrian working with Zak “Tattoo” Brown.

Me neither, then again (even as a Red bull fan) I couldn’t really see him working with Christian Horner either. Personality wise of principle and engineer I would have thought the fit is most with James from Williams.

But that is purely based upon what I see on TV. So based on nothing in reality. 🤣👍

 

[Glideslope]

Me neither, then again (even as a Red bull fan) I couldn’t really see him working with Christian Horner either. Personality wise of principle and engineer I would have thought the fit is most with James from Williams.

But that is purely based upon what I see on TV. So based on nothing in reality. 🤣👍

I agree. Adrian and James would be a great team. At one point I thought Williams might be in the running, but that seems to have passed. Even with Clair removed I still think of Williams past….

Anyway, I’m on holiday tomorrow and won’t be watching this weekend. I expect it to be quite racy…….

 

[pachyderm]

I agree. Adrian and James would be a great team. At one point I thought Williams might be in the running, but that seems to have passed. Even with Clair removed I still think of Williams past….

Anyway, I’m on holiday tomorrow and won’t be watching this weekend. I expect it to be quite racy…….

I'm looking forward to this race...

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I agree. Adrian and James would be a great team. At one point I thought Williams might be in the running, but that seems to have passed. Even with Clair removed I still think of Williams past….

Anyway, I’m on holiday tomorrow and won’t be watching this weekend. I expect it to be quite racy…….

Enjoy you holiday 👍

I'm looking forward to this race...

Yes me too. Should be a good one.

 

[CWallace]

Haas has signed an extension of their engine and technical agreements with Ferrari through 2028, but they are also exploring collaboration with Toyota, though this is not believed to be a prelude to a return of Toyota to F1. More likely, this will be Haas using the Toyota wind tunnel in Cologne and possibly some technical support for areas outside of those covered with the agreement with Ferrari.

Toyota not eyeing F1 comeback with Haas

Reports that Toyota is looking to return to Formula 1 in partnership with Haas are wide of the mark.

www.grandprix.com

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Haas has signed an extension of their engine and technical agreements with Ferrari through 2028, but they are also exploring collaboration with Toyota, though this is not believed to be a prelude to a return of Toyota to F1. More likely, this will be Haas using the Toyota wind tunnel in Cologne and possibly some technical support for areas outside of those covered with the agreement with Ferrari.

Toyota not eyeing F1 comeback with Haas

Reports that Toyota is looking to return to Formula 1 in partnership with Haas are wide of the mark.

www.grandprix.com

Companies like Toyota and Honda for example returning as works teams would be most unwelcome for me. Companies who are happy to lay off thousands of staff and then pop up years later when it suits, especially when it’s recent history just stinks. Stick to engine production I say. A friend of mine had a very stressful winter in 2008 thinking he’d lost his job at Honda and luckily kept it through Brawn and Mercedes with a last minute buy out. The Japanese approach in F1 has always been too slow to be competitive. I remember Ove Andersson saying when Toyota pulled out, that by the time a direction or decision had gone through the committees and boardrooms in Toyoko, the advantage on the track had been closed down by faster thinking European teams.

They’ll probably get back in easier than Andretti will though.

 

[JustinePaula]

Companies like Toyota and Honda for example returning as works teams would be most unwelcome for me. Companies who are happy to lay off thousands of staff and then pop up years later when it suits, especially when it’s recent history just stinks.

Yeah, folks make decisions at the time they think is best, everyone and the neighborhood cat thought EV was the best thing since rubber tyres, now they are all going back to deceased decayed dinosaur engines... EV was a mistake, so we forgive them...

I want 20 teams, 2 cars per, and a 30 car grid, so that we actually have value for the Saturday afternoon Q1 session.. Would make the sprints worthwhile, maybe sprints Saturday determines the grid, 40 cars start Saturday, 30 take the grid Sunday... A girl can dream of the impossible...

Honda/Toyota/Chevrolet and others would be great, but every team has to be 100% in house, engines, chassis, no hybrid, only horses, no volts/amps... A tiny battery for stalls after a spin..if you use it, a 10 second stop n go penalty..

More cars=more excitement, and more younger drivers and something for the seat warmers to do on a weekend other than get warts sitting around looking sexy...

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Companies like Toyota and Honda for example returning as works teams would be most unwelcome for me. Companies who are happy to lay off thousands of staff and then pop up years later when it suits, especially when it’s recent history just stinks. Stick to engine production I say. A friend of mine had a very stressful winter in 2008 thinking he’d lost his job at Honda and luckily kept it through Brawn and Mercedes with a last minute buy out. The Japanese approach in F1 has always been too slow to be competitive. I remember Ove Andersson saying when Toyota pulled out, that by the time a direction or decision had gone through the committees and boardrooms in Toyoko, the advantage on the track had been closed down by faster thinking European teams.

They’ll probably get back in easier than Andretti will though.

I get your point but he was sadly not the only one in 2008. There was a world event happening and lots of people lots their jobs and homes.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Yeah, folks make decisions at the time they think is best, everyone and the neighborhood cat thought EV was the best thing since rubber tyres, now they are all going back to deceased decayed dinosaur engines... EV was a mistake, so we forgive them...

EV's are increasing in popularity so not sure I get that analogy, certainly not hearing of 'everyone' going back to ICE. I've just spent the last few days driving around the Netherlands and Germany and they are very similar to the UK in terms of EV's being very popular.

I want 20 teams, 2 cars per, and a 30 car grid, so that we actually have value for the Saturday afternoon Q1 session.. Would make the sprints worthwhile, maybe sprints Saturday determines the grid, 40 cars start Saturday, 30 take the grid Sunday... A girl can dream of the impossible...

Honda/Toyota/Chevrolet and others would be great, but every team has to be 100% in house, engines, chassis, no hybrid, only horses, no volts/amps... A tiny battery for stalls after a spin..if you use it, a 10 second stop n go penalty..

More cars=more excitement, and more younger drivers and something for the seat warmers to do on a weekend other than get warts sitting around looking sexy...

Where do teams get all the money from to pay for all their individual engine development programs and how does that feed into the automotive industry to keep the sport relevant? F1 is an R&D series and teams get a lot of funding from selling data and research back into the automtoive sector. What you are suggesting is completely unaffordable and would ensure no privateer teams ever exist again. Would teams have to develop their own ECU's too without the telp of HP and Siemens?

 

[JustinePaula]

I see reports weekly of this car brand or that announcing plans for new diesels etc, no question overpriced golf carts in Amsterdam make sense..
Private F1 teams.. those days like the local dairy dropping off a pint of orange juice at 5:35am are long gone.. It is all venture capitalists trying to outdo each other, teams are bought and sold like cows at a market...

Research and Development is only expensive if you are on the wrong path, and EV/hybrid is the wrong approach.. What is wrong with using a bog standard 1.6 or 2 litre engine and a fancy pants gearbox.. As I have discussed at length, F1 is heading towards a path of convergence.. That is you can have 10 teams, 20, 100 teams, and every car will be identical in terms of aerodynamics and mechanical design, there is of course only 1 right answer in physics... this has been a solved problem for about 80 years..

F1 has lost it's soul, it's very reason for being.. Now it is a boring mess, a mess of overcomplicated and confusing regulations and micromanagement of events, the nanometer transgression of a line and a result affected..

F1 needs to be fixed or face a future of what??? Greed is a bad thing, you have owners/CEO's that have lost sight of the very thing that brought them into F1.. Too many events, at venues that are just not suitable, cars too big? Something is not right.. But who am I?? A nobody.. watched the sport deteriorate into a swamp of increasing confusion..

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I see reports weekly of this car brand or that announcing plans for new diesels etc, no question overpriced golf carts in Amsterdam make sense..

Benelux, Germany, Nordic region is a bit bigger than Amsterdam We have 1.5 EVs. I expect this time next year to have 4 on our driveway; I'll be switching my PHEV to a full EV, my eldest daughter switching her diesel for an EV, and my youngest daughter doesn't want to learn to drive or have anything else 🤣

The way they drive is excellent, but the time saved, and low running costs are priceless.

Private F1 teams.. those days like the local dairy dropping off a pint of orange juice at 5:35am are long gone.. It is all venture capitalists trying to outdo each other, teams are bought and sold like cows at a market...

We still have a local dairy delivery, and any other type of shopping as well. It is certainly different, no argument there, but VC can be good for investment and getting much needed money.

Research and Development is only expensive if you are on the wrong path, and EV/hybrid is the wrong approach..

I disagree, it is great getting those technological advances into cars. I'm looking forward to see how much further top sport can push this. It is still away to proof it, and make it available to the masses.

What is wrong with using a bog standard 1.6 or 2 litre engine and a fancy pants gearbox..

Nothing, apart from that it is a bit retro. Our MK2 Golf GTI had a 1.8 digifant fuel injection engine in it back in 1987. In Italy they kept high performance engines below 2.0 purely for tax purposes. Welcome to 2024, you can have super efficient, high power engines, with EV boosts, pretty awesome times.

As I have discussed at length, F1 is heading towards a path of convergence.. That is you can have 10 teams, 20, 100 teams, and every car will be identical in terms of aerodynamics and mechanical design, there is of course only 1 right answer in physics... this has been a solved problem for about 80 years..

And yet as you can see, not every team gets it right. And even when they had it, and were dominant, others catch up and improve. I hear your point, but think we are a long way away from having total convergence with a single answr that all teams implement.

F1 has lost it's soul, it's very reason for being.. Now it is a boring mess, a mess of overcomplicated and confusing regulations and micromanagement of events, the nanometer transgression of a line and a result affected..

I disagree, to me its edge on the seat stuff. Especially the last few races. And it's about way more than just the cars as has also been shown. Perez not performing with the same at his disposal, Lewis doing the unthinkable last weekend and getting more out of his car and tyres than should be possible on paper. McLaren posing a threat but their drivers not there yet. And Ferrari just keeps on surprising by its absence. No, I cannot possibly agree, it is very exciting at the moment.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I see reports weekly of this car brand or that announcing plans for new diesels etc, no question overpriced golf carts in Amsterdam make sense..
Private F1 teams.. those days like the local dairy dropping off a pint of orange juice at 5:35am are long gone.. It is all venture capitalists trying to outdo each other, teams are bought and sold like cows at a market...

Research and Development is only expensive if you are on the wrong path, and EV/hybrid is the wrong approach.. What is wrong with using a bog standard 1.6 or 2 litre engine and a fancy pants gearbox.. As I have discussed at length, F1 is heading towards a path of convergence.. That is you can have 10 teams, 20, 100 teams, and every car will be identical in terms of aerodynamics and mechanical design, there is of course only 1 right answer in physics... this has been a solved problem for about 80 years..

F1 has lost it's soul, it's very reason for being.. Now it is a boring mess, a mess of overcomplicated and confusing regulations and micromanagement of events, the nanometer transgression of a line and a result affected..

F1 needs to be fixed or face a future of what??? Greed is a bad thing, you have owners/CEO's that have lost sight of the very thing that brought them into F1.. Too many events, at venues that are just not suitable, cars too big? Something is not right.. But who am I?? A nobody.. watched the sport deteriorate into a swamp of increasing confusion..

So on one hand you're dismissing smaller private teams in favour of big manufacturers due to limitations on resources and funding, and on the other hand you want big companies to commit to a sport that offers an old fashioned technology criteria inapplicable to the automotive sector because it makes the sport exciting for you. Perhaps we could have topless models dishing out Camel cigarettes and Fosters to anybody who hasn't got a knighthood at races too.

 

[JustinePaula]

So on one hand you're dismissing smaller private teams in favour of big manufacturers due to limitations on resources and funding, and on the other hand you want big companies to commit to a sport that offers an old fashioned technology criteria inapplicable to the automotive sector because it makes the sport exciting for you. Perhaps we could have topless models dishing out Camel cigarettes and Fosters to anybody who hasn't got a knighthood at races too.

I am not dismissing, I accept that the reality of F1 precludes the Wiiliam's era of team, would be great if it was possible, but as long as F1 is run along the lines it is today, private teams are non viable, that is a shame...

No I don't want big teams, that I discussed with "Research and Development is only expensive if you are on the wrong path, and EV/hybrid is the wrong approach." This was a mistake made, all the big car brands went EV and now are backtracking on this.. Which is correct.. Fancy golf carts in Amsterdam/London make sense.. To drive that from London to Glasgow does not...

The point I was trying to make is simple, F1 is heading towards and I had said this many times, convergence.. All cars will be identical in terms of aerodynamics and mechanical grip, why is every team keen to get the intelligence of 1 man... For example say Saint Newey heads to William's, the Willams car will be closer to Red Bull as in physics there is only 1 right answer for aero and mechanical forces, we have known this since World War 2... That is a solved problem.

Make the sport simple, reduce the number of parts that can fail, stop the crap about track limits..F1 has lost it;s identity, it's soul... The Lewis v Nico year, that was insane.. The best in a very very long time.. Just ignore me.. I am nobody...