2024 Formula 1 Season thread

[JustinePaula]

Let me remind the crowd of 2021, Lewis lost the season for 2 reasons, Bottas being 3rd 3 times, Max had 2nd 3 times, this means Max gained points, and Lewis had a poor race in Baku, due to a button being in the wrong place.. Not the first time Lewis lost a season due to Button in the wrong place..[pun intended...those who know know...]...

Lando is 100% correct, Oscar lost that race due to incompetent driving, laps deleted, not driving on the track, had a 5 second lead, lost it due to wandering all over the map... Lando drove the course distance..

This is F1, not some toddler egg n spoon race where everyone gets a certificate for attending.. Lando should have done the Vettal and told the team to go and play sims with Max.. I really hope that McLaren loose by exactly 7 points and would have won the season had they not played mommy and gifted a less competent driver a win...

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Indeed. It is clear why they brought Lando in first even thought at that time he was in second place. And yes, it is unfortunate for Oscar that that helped Lando to ultimately get in front. But to then artificially make a racer slow down is just unnatural, unless Oscar truly needed those points to win the championship, at this stage that is just not the case. I'd have exclaimed to the racers; free to race. Just don't lose the 1-2.

 

[pachyderm]

Honestly interested why you feel it was poor strategy on McLaren's part. I believe they pitted Lando first (with the expectation he would hand the lead back to Piastri after his later stop) to protect against a possible undercut/overcut by Max for second place.

(Lewis had burned his Hards and was not going to pit again, so I think only Max was the threat).



I believe that if Lando loses the WDC, it will be by a margin larger than 8 points (actually 7, since Russell ended up with Fastest Lap).

It was a great strategy for Lando, lol.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Piastri is the first winner born in this millenium, now doesn't that make us all feel old?

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Piastri is the first winner born in this millenium, now doesn't that make us all feel old?

Nope

 

[Apple fanboy]

Piastri is the first winner born in this millenium, now doesn't that make us all feel old?

No. The aching knees, failing eyesight and hearing does that! 😀

 

[headlessmike]

Indeed. It is clear why they brought Lando in first even thought at that time he was in second place. And yes, it is unfortunate for Oscar that that helped Lando to ultimately get in front. But to then artificially make a racer slow down is just unnatural, unless Oscar truly needed those points to win the championship, at this stage that is just not the case. I'd have exclaimed to the racers; free to race. Just don't lose the 1-2.

As Lando's engineer put it, to win in the long run you want the support of the entire team. Oscar was on course for his first win when the team's own strategy ended up favoring Lando with the undercut. Oscar is good enough that McLaren don't want to alienate and ultimately lose him. I'm not really a fan of McLaren, but I see Oscar as greater talent than Lando and worth keeping around on good terms.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

As Lando's engineer put it, to win in the long run you want the support of the entire team. Oscar was on course for his first win when the team's own strategy ended up favoring Lando with the undercut. Oscar is good enough that McLaren don't want to alienate and ultimately lose him. I'm not really a fan of McLaren, but I see Oscar as greater talent than Lando and worth keeping around on good terms.

And they've just alienated Oscar They've robbed him from the glory and excitement of a win on his own (that includes his team naturally) merit. They messed up, yup unfortunately, but it happens.

Ah well, its for them to sort out. I think it started off with the best intentions but totally backfired and was the wrong call for Lando, the wrong call for Oscar, the wrong call for the team, and the wrong call for the sport. Nobody won in the end...

 

[JustinePaula]

If what you say is true, "keeping him on good terms" that is a bad strategy, and one that is doomed to fail.. If someone has a delicate ego, toss them regardless, Oscar should learn life is tough, F1 is brutal, Martin Brundle mentions it often the way he was booted from teams, I am surprized Perez has not been kicked to the curb..

Oscar yesterday failed to just keep it between the lines, he lost the race due to poor driving standards, so the team rewards bad driving with a race win... Really Mclaren are clowns, a week prior, ooops wrong tyres, yesterday, reward a bad drive with a win, man that is a tough act to beat.. What does Lando have to do? Start from pit lane? And sure as anything, will be 2nd to Precious Pies..

 

[headlessmike]

And they've just alienated Oscar They've robbed him from the glory and excitement of a win on his own (that includes his team naturally) merit. They messed up, yup unfortunately, but it happens.

Ah well, its for them to sort out. I think it started off with the best intentions but totally backfired and was the wrong call for Lando, the wrong call for Oscar, the wrong call for the team, and the wrong call for the sport. Nobody won in the end...

I'm sure Oscar is very happy with the win. He had the race in his hand before the team took it away (with no ill-intent). They all won in the end, because had they not pitted Lando first then they probably never would have finished 1-2.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I'm sure Oscar is very happy with the win. He had the race in his hand before the team took it away (with no ill-intent). They all won in the end, because had they not pitted Lando first then they probably never would have finished 1-2.

Or if Oscar didn’t go so wide in that first corner that he pushed Lando nearly off the track and Max by proxy off the track it could have been different.

Who knows, stuff happens during a race; it’s the way the cookie crumbles. Deal with it by racing. Not by slowing down.

 

[headlessmike]

Or if Oscar didn’t go so wide in that first corner that he pushed Lando nearly off the track and Max by proxy off the track it could have been different.

Who knows, stuff happens during a race; it’s the way the cookie crumbles. Deal with it by racing. Not by slowing down.

Certainly. F1 complicates things by being both a competition between teams and individuals. I would've seen either Lando or Oscar winning as being fair outcomes, but ultimately the team did what they felt was the best for them as a whole.

 

[JustinePaula]

Mclaren should be suspended from the championship, Piastri did not deserve the win.

 

[pachyderm]

Mclaren should be suspended from the championship, Piastri did not deserve the win.

That is a HOT take...

Really, Lando should learn how to get a good launch. More than one of his starts have ruined his race this season.

 

[CWallace]

Or if Oscar didn’t go so wide in that first corner that he pushed Lando nearly off the track and Max by proxy off the track it could have been different.

And maybe if Lando had kept to the racing line and then undercut Piastri powering out of Turn 1 instead of trying to drive him into the wall and force him to back out which put Max on the racing line instead, it could have been different.

I'll quote it again - maybe Lando should look to why even starting on Pole, he is not in first place after Turn 1 so often...

 

[pachyderm]

And maybe if Lando had kept to the racing line and then undercut Piastri powering out of Turn 1 instead of trying to drive him into the wall and force him to back out which put Max on the racing line instead, it could have been different.

I'll quote it again - maybe Lando should look to why even starting on Pole, he is not in first place after Turn 1 so often...

yup

 

[CWallace]

"I didn't deserve to win the race," Norris said. "Simple as that. The fact I was in that position was incorrect.

"If Oscar's led the whole race, it's not fair, and I don't think that's how it should work, that he should just let me pass for me to win because I'm fighting for a championship.

"I didn't give up the race win. I lost it off the line."

Well said, Lando. Well said.

Lando Norris on Hungarian Grand Prix: I didn't give up the win - I lost it off the line

Lando Norris agonised over whether to hand victory in the Hungarian Grand Prix back to McLaren team-mate Oscar Piastri but said it was the "fair" and "honest" thing to do.

www.bbc.com

Lando also noted that he always intended to let Piastri past at the line on the final lap, but that Piastri's message that he was worried a major incident would freeze the field under a VSC or SC that would conclude the race made him decide to do it when he did.

 

[laptech]

Ken Miles is the reason why a driver should say 'stuff it' to team orders/instructions. He had the chance to be the first driver to win the triple crown in the same year and he came supremely close to doing so, something no driver has achieved but he decided to listen to team instructions because of Ford wanting a 1,2,3 Ford photo finish at the 1966 Le Mans.

I have no doubt in my mind, behind the scenes Lando will be pissed off with what he was told to do.

 

[laptech]

Well said, Lando. Well said.

Lando Norris on Hungarian Grand Prix: I didn't give up the win - I lost it off the line

Lando Norris agonised over whether to hand victory in the Hungarian Grand Prix back to McLaren team-mate Oscar Piastri but said it was the "fair" and "honest" thing to do.

www.bbc.com

Lando also noted that he always intended to let Piastri past at the line on the final lap, but that Piastri's message that he was worried a major incident would freeze the field under a VSC or SC that would conclude the race made him decide to do it when he did.

I don't want this 'let's be friends, here you can have 1st place back' racing. I want to see drivers challenging each other every step of the way, no team orders. If a driver benefits from a mistake that affects the other team driver then so be it. It's the responsibility of the team bosses to make sure no mistakes occur. If Piastri wanted a win then he is to fight for it every step of the way even when errors/mistakes occur within the team. I've never liked team orders and I've never liked 'let's be friends, here have your position back'. I accept that some do like this style of F1 but I do not.

 

[JustinePaula]

I blame the PHD who is Piastri's "engineer",Piastri should fire him, it is the duty of the engineer to advocate for his driver, the team has 2...Piastri's Engineer should have fought for his driver, the team made a strategy call, bring Lando in first, Lando got track position, tough for Piastri, but that is F1.. There should be no team orders to reverse positions, that should be a suspension, loss of points, or loss of air tunnel time...

Mclaren changed the outcome of the event, Piastri did not drive well enough to win, he had too many "offs" and had a lap deleted...Maybe if the stewards rather maybe going forward, instead of the stupid "lap deleted" it is 5 seconds.. The fact is, did Piastri drive well enough to warrant a win? I say NO he did not... The team made a call, pit Lando, why did Piastri's engineer fight and say, that is wrong???

Regardless McLaren should be docked points, fined, or suspended for 1 race..

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I don't want this 'let's be friends, here you can have 1st place back' racing. I want to see drivers challenging each other every step of the way, no team orders. If a driver benefits from a mistake that affects the other team driver then so be it. It's the responsibility of the team bosses to make sure no mistakes occur. If Piastri wanted a win then he is to fight for it every step of the way even when errors/mistakes occur within the team. I've never liked team orders and I've never liked 'let's be friends, here have your position back'. I accept that some do like this style of F1 but I do not.

It rarely works in the same team though and becomes impossible to manage. Its exciting for us fans to watch, but destroys a teams dynamic. McLaren know this only too well when they tried to let Hamilton and Alonso go at it with equal treatment without team orders. You had a WC in Alonso who thought he was getting the same status he had at Renault, and a rookie who was as fast as Alonso and wanted to start winning. McLaren couldn’t manage it, Alonso bribed half the garage to get preferential treatment and tried to blackmail the CEO, the top brass and sponsors wanted Lewis to win because he was new and the press were loving him and it all just imploded.

They seem a bit more measured now under Brown and Stella but you can see it’s starting to cause issues as they have 2 excellent young talents where neither is interested in being a number 2.

 

[pachyderm]

Ken Miles is the reason why a driver should say 'stuff it' to team orders/instructions. He had the chance to be the first driver to win the triple crown in the same year and he came supremely close to doing so, something no driver has achieved but he decided to listen to team instructions because of Ford wanting a 1,2,3 Ford photo finish at the 1966 Le Mans.

I have no doubt in my mind, behind the scenes Lando will be pissed off with what he was told to do.

I go back to Mika Salo '99. He gave up a win for Eddie Irvine while subbing for Schumacker at Ferrari.

meh!

Shoot your shot Mika!!

 

[JustinePaula]

What Zak Brown has done now is insane... He just basically elevated Piastri to number 1... Piastri will from now going forward believe he should benefit, Piastri knew he was not the winner, but someone at Mclaren gave him a win, over his rival, what power dynamics are in play now?

More to the point, Lando backed down, he was fighting until then caved, he quit the fight, he was correct in that he should have won, he just gave up so much power he had in the team.. Never give away power.. He just did, he is weak, Piastri will now take advantage, knowing Lando will roll over and be a limp noodle..

Lando has no courage of his conviction, if he trusted himself, he should not have backed off, got the win, then Monday deal with the consequence.. But now can he be trusted??

In aviation you have 2 pilots, PIC SIC, Pilot in Command, Second in Command... Every team needs 2 drivers,both cannot be number 1.. Zak has now figured out 1 and 2... Piastri 1, Lando 2...

 

[CWallace]

Honestly, none of this never should have happened. Lando knew the team's position before the GP even started (give the position back) and he pushed it as long as he could. If I want to be cynical, Lando waited because he was hoping for an SC/VSC that would have handed him the win. And in doing so, he took what should have been a straight-forward matter (swap positions) and turned it into something that is generating a shedload of buzz - negative buzz - for the team and both drivers.

McLaren pitted Lando early to take the pressure off the pit crew. They were concerned that if they waited more laps, then if there was any bobble in the pits, Lando could have lost second place.

Yes, Piastri had a bad couple of laps before his own stop due to his going off, but he was not losing so much time that Lando would have undercut him during his stop if Piastri had gone first and had the stop he did.

Once again, some good insights from The Race commentators.

 

[laptech]

Honestly, none of this never should have happened. Lando knew the team's position before the GP even started (give the position back) and he pushed it as long as he could. If I want to be cynical, Lando waited because he was hoping for an SC/VSC that would have handed him the win. And in doing so, he took what should have been a straight-forward matter (swap positions) and turned it into something that is generating a shedload of buzz - negative buzz - for the team and both drivers.

McLaren pitted Lando early to take the pressure off the pit crew. They were concerned that if they waited more laps, then if there was any bobble in the pits, Lando could have lost second place.

Yes, Piastri had a bad couple of laps before his own stop due to his going off, but he was not losing so much time that Lando would have undercut him during his stop if Piastri had gone first and had the stop he did.

Once again, some good insights from The Race commentators.

Watching the video and listening to what they were saying it was clear to me they was making my point of 'let's be friends' very clear because they kept on saying that regardless of what was going on, Lando was to give the place back to Piastri. NO NO NO!!!. I have never liked this sportsmanship behaviour in F1, that a teammate must hand over place position if that position was gained from an error or a mistake. Again NO NO NO. If the team make a mistake then deal with it after the rest but let the drivers race. I've always been of the situation let the best driver win regardless. This is one of the reasons I stopped being so fan focused on F1 that I used to be because of drivers handing back positions to their team mate so they can win because of 'we must be friends, the boss says so'.

My point of view is a unique point of view I understand that because many F1 fans like this 'let's be friends, let them win' attitude.