Agreed.
What would Senna, Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton, and Nico Rosberg have done...?
But it doesn't matter now... lol
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2024 Formula 1 Season thread
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What would Senna, Schumacher, Vettel, Hamilton, and Nico Rosberg have done...?
But it doesn't matter now... lol
My views I know are salty and far from what the rest of the readers accept, my views are just as valid, Zak Brown or his agent representing him, if he was not at the track, someone, the person that approved the Lando before Piastri pit stop has now created a situation in which there will be conflict...
Trust in F1 is extremely important, who can trust what decisions are made? Can Piastri trust the decisions about pit stops, can Lando? This is a huge problem, Lando by backing down, has he demoted himself to number 2 in the team? Does he have the respect of the team? Piastri can claim and operate on the assumption he is number 1 driver...
The idea of it being legal/ethical to back a driver from 1st to 2nd place, because of "office politics" has no place, it is dangerous, it is misleading, it creates a false finish for the race, it cheapens the sport, it really should have result in a doublr DQ, a rest of season suspension, loss of all points, and any payout as a result.
Piastri did not win the race, because of weak and ineffective management by his engineer, McLaren engineered a fake result, they cheated, the FIA approves and without any sanction, this creates a dangerous precedent...
We saw enough cheating and unsporting conduct from the Senna/Prost, Hill/Schumacher, Schumacher and others.. To the point M Schumacher was excluded from the final result..
F1 should be fair, if a team makes a decision a driver is not happy with, that is a Monday morning 9am back at base problem, not an on track scam on the FIA. And this was a scam, I hope the FIA come down hard [they wont] A pity...
Trust in F1 is extremely important, who can trust what decisions are made? Can Piastri trust the decisions about pit stops, can Lando? This is a huge problem, Lando by backing down, has he demoted himself to number 2 in the team? Does he have the respect of the team? Piastri can claim and operate on the assumption he is number 1 driver...
The idea of it being legal/ethical to back a driver from 1st to 2nd place, because of "office politics" has no place, it is dangerous, it is misleading, it creates a false finish for the race, it cheapens the sport, it really should have result in a doublr DQ, a rest of season suspension, loss of all points, and any payout as a result.
Piastri did not win the race, because of weak and ineffective management by his engineer, McLaren engineered a fake result, they cheated, the FIA approves and without any sanction, this creates a dangerous precedent...
We saw enough cheating and unsporting conduct from the Senna/Prost, Hill/Schumacher, Schumacher and others.. To the point M Schumacher was excluded from the final result..
F1 should be fair, if a team makes a decision a driver is not happy with, that is a Monday morning 9am back at base problem, not an on track scam on the FIA. And this was a scam, I hope the FIA come down hard [they wont] A pity...
I don't believe McLaren made a mistake in pitting Norris first to protect his 2nd place position and I don't believe McLaren made a mistake in having a policy of restoring the original running order in such situations.
People say "let the better driver win", but on that day, Piastri was the better driver. Lando ended up first only because he was allowed to pit first. So if you are true to your beliefs, than you should not be complaining that Piastri won the race.
People say "let the better driver win", but on that day, Piastri was the better driver. Lando ended up first only because he was allowed to pit first. So if you are true to your beliefs, than you should not be complaining that Piastri won the race.
Senna was a selfish jerk.
Schumacher was also a selfish jerk and the undisputed #1 who if he could not win on his own merit, was given the win due to his status as the #1 driver.
Vettel and Hamilton just constantly outclassed their teammate so in general they did not need to depend on selfishness or shenanigans to win.
As for Rosberg, let's just say he did follow team orders at Malaysia in 2013 and stayed behind Lewis to the finish.
Agreed. I think people made a bigger deal about it before understanding the agreement made before the race which Lando agreed to because it favored him anyway. Lando admitted he lost the race in the first corner or else the situation would have been reversed and Piastri would have had to move over to let Lando through at the end. Then everyone would be crying that Oscar gave up his first win.
In my opinion Lando completely blew this one. First at the start, and secondly, he knew the agreement and he put up the fight over the radio. He either had to go dark and ignore everyone or just move over right away because they had their orders. He made it look it worse and McLaren poorly orchestrated it. I'd blame him and the team equally on this one.
The incident between Max and Lewis in Hungary reminded me a lot of Silverstone ‘21 but with roles reversed. Admittedly Hungary was a bit more extreme on the inside with lots more understeer and a loss of control but it’s interesting to see the drivers reactions to it. Lewis thought both were racing incidents, whereas Max felt Lewis was at fault in Silverstone for the contact. He also felt he didn’t have to give more room at Copse because it was his corner, but ironically thinks Lewis should have given him more room in Hungary even though it was Lewis’ corner. The complex hypocrisy of your average F1 driver and the dangers of judging incidents by the outcome rather than the cause. One benefit of not having team principles whining down the radio at the race director for sure too.
I've seen that said in other articles about the incident. I am therefore curious as to what made it 'Lewis corner' because watching the race incident video that was linked to in here it was very obvious to see what Lewis was doing. No one was in front of him and Max was someway back but close enough to catch him if Lewis was to break into the turn, so it appears to me that Lewis's intention was to 'power through' the corner. It's a technique that I have seen many a driver explain on programs such as Top Gear and Fifth gear (mainly Fifth Gear) where the show would have an ex sports car driver test cars on race tracks, giving their views about the performance of the car, drivers being Tiff Needell, Tony Mason, Vicki Butler-Henderson. The purpose of the move is to be able to move through without losing too much speed and momentum. The driver 'powers' into the turn and 'powers' out of the turn. To achieve this the driver must approach the turn on the opposite side of the track as much as possible so when they 'power' into the turn there is enough track space for them to keep on the power, only having to change through the gears and break as they approach the entrance to the turn where they can then immediately put on the power to exit the turn.
As soon as I saw Lewis move to the far edge of the track when approaching the turn I knew what he was going to do, he was going to execute a 'power through the corner' move, the problem was that Max was just that little bit too close to Lewis for such a move to work because to enact such a move you leave a massive gap to the entrance to the turn, Max saw the gap and went for it, which he was allowed to do in my opinion but it is not an opinion shared by the majority because the majority say Max 'dive bombed' for the corner and thus he was in error.
Lewis knew Max was behind thus Lewis should have protected his racing line going into the corner which would have prevented Max from trying to get past but he didn't, he incorrectly thought Max was far enough behind him for him to carry out the 'power through the turn' move. Lewis did not have the racing line because he was way out on the other side of the track. Max went for the gap but Lewis had turned in causing Max to lock up to try and prevent both cars coming together. The ONLY way Lewis would have failed to see Max going for the inside is if Lewis failed to look into any of his mirrors during his maneuver because if he had he would have seen Max go for the inside which would have forced Lewis to alter his turn to prevent both cars hitting each other.
So, those who have watched enough sports car races to know what I am talking about, why was the corner being referred to as 'Lewis corner'? In my opinion Lewis tried a risky move at the wrong time and caused a coming together of both cars.
Perhaps me saying Lewis' corner is incorrect, much like Silverstone '21 wasn't Max's corner either. Lewis said he maintained his racing line as a defence but left enough space (1.5 cars width approx) to the right and had Max been in control, he would have made the corner and maybe even forced Lewis wide on exit. Lewis didn't try a 'risky move', the risky move was braking too late on the marbles and going straight-on over Hamilton's front right tyre. It happens and credit to Max for trying to race. I just don't agree with him appointing blame to Lewis and I think Lewis did the right thing keeping his car in position. This needs to happen in situations like this, otherwise drivers simply get away with going deep into corners and running others off the circuit, much like Max often has and still does. That type of driving used to beach drivers in gravel traps and end their races so at least both cars were able to finish in this instance, no harm done, racing incident all day long IMO.
FIA Said no further action, Lewis called it a racing incident, Max's comment was just from when it happened and what he saw. The only people making an issue here are actually the 'fans'. It really wasn't a big deal. He tried, he failed, he paid for it himself by finishing 2 places lower than he could have.
I’m not so sure. Lando was pulling out a gap at the end on older tyres. Surly if Piastri was the better driver he’d have been reeling him in.
Unless of course he was driving to a delta where as Lando was not.
Either way I still feel we should be celebrating the McLaren 1-2 but are bemoaning the team orders. It was a fantastic result for them and I truly hope the momentum has swung their way for the next few races. Especially if Mercedes and Ferrari are in the mix. Keeps Max and RBR looking over their shoulder.
That right there. The gap really wasn't that big to begin with, and Oscar just wasn't keeping up.
I think you are right, the team radio suggested that Lando should slow down for other reasons as well. But hey, they are the drivers and from that perspective, Lando was right, the car was fine.
And that is the self — created problem by McLaren, they've ruined their celebrations big time. It was a good result. They are doing absolutely spectacular. They are getting the points required. So much to celebrate, yet they choose to create their own issue.
And Max is right, RBR looks lacklustre, like they've not been keeping up with what the others are doing. Not just with the car developments, but also the strategy. Looking at the face of Hannah on the pit wall, it seems they all had a difficulty. And it wasn't just Hungary. The team hasn't been looking like they've got it together for a while now. And Checo is just absent, which also doesn't help matters.
I think Piastri expected Lando to let him past as had been agreed to and was not burning his tires up to chase him down, much less than risk a collision that takes one or both of them out as they tussled for the lead.
PlanetF1 posted an article showing that Max's pit stop strategy was actually optimized to allow him to at worse finish third and at best take one or both McLarens at the end. It was just that Max could not get the job done to get past Lewis even on fresher tires, which is why in the end McLaren did not need to pit Norris first and trigger all this nonsense. But at the time they did, they likely saw how Max's strategy could be a threat to them.
Agreed. It is unfortunate that Lando just didn't pull over immediately. People might complain about it, but it would have been obvious that this was what was supposed to happen (and we've seen it before with McLaren - Mika and David) and not ended up nearly as embarrassing as it did because Lando dragged it out.
Piastri was so far behind when Lando was first instructed to let him past, Lando had to significantly reduce his pace to allow the gap to close, hence the 'tell him to catch me up' comment over the radio. I think Lando summed it up though, racing drivers are 'selfish' to their own gains and despite F1 being a team sport, drivers only really care about their own records and the constructors championship is secondary. Unfortunately they have to play the team game every now and then and we get flash points like this. Drivers who ignore team orders and argue down the radio and finish out of position generally lose respect and although it was a bitter pill to swallow, Lando did the right thing in the end.
One of the post race commentators reminded me that both drivers are literally employees and need to do what the boss tells them to do. Lando did what he needed to do. We will see if it makes a difference at the end of the season.
I don't do everything the boss tells me to do
Lando has shown some real weakness here.
Yeah absolutely. Red Bull and McLaren have got their hands full with this generation of drivers and as wouldn’t be tolerated at McLaren and other teams just 20 years ago. A race engineer is a very important member of the team, not just some assistant drivers can get shirty with. Good race engineers are in shorter supply than the drivers queuing up for these seats in all reality.
Indeed. Just witness Max's engineer telling him to shut up and get past Lewis on merit and not via a steward's decision.
Now we know why Sainz skipped out on joining Audi.
www.formula1.com
Audi announce ex-Ferrari chief Mattia Binotto as new F1 boss
Audi have announced former Ferrari Team Principal Mattia Binotto is returning to Grand Prix racing as the new leader of their Formula 1 project.
Oh, dear! Perhaps he is good at creating a team, just not running it. Trying to be positive here…Now we know why Sainz skipped out on joining Audi.
Audi announce ex-Ferrari chief Mattia Binotto as new F1 boss
Audi have announced former Ferrari Team Principal Mattia Binotto is returning to Grand Prix racing as the new leader of their Formula 1 project.
Now we know why Sainz skipped out on joining Audi.
Audi announce ex-Ferrari chief Mattia Binotto as new F1 boss
Audi have announced former Ferrari Team Principal Mattia Binotto is returning to Grand Prix racing as the new leader of their Formula 1 project.
I can’t see anything positive with this. Mattia was a last minute, last resort hire.
It’s not going to be easy…..
So as we go into Belgium and then on to the Summer Break, Red Bull may use that time to decide their driver lineup for the rest of this year and 2025. Perez continues to be under pressure as his failure to score CC points is now putting the CC at risk and with the team staff bonus in part based on where the team finishes in the CC, it is more than just "bragging rights" at stake and winning the CC seems to be more important than some of us (myself included) thought.
Daniel is the favored choice right now, which would allow Lawson to slot into VCARB and then depending on how both did, Lawson would be promoted to RB for 2025 or do another year at VCARB. Marko evidently wants Yuki to replace Perez, but Horner now holds the power and he wants Daniel and does not feel Yuki is a viable option.
Daniel is the favored choice right now, which would allow Lawson to slot into VCARB and then depending on how both did, Lawson would be promoted to RB for 2025 or do another year at VCARB. Marko evidently wants Yuki to replace Perez, but Horner now holds the power and he wants Daniel and does not feel Yuki is a viable option.