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2025 Formula One Season Thread

I'm not at all surprised Aston Martin are trying to recoup investment considering they are likely to be hit very hard by what is going on in the world right now. F1 is in effect a rather expensive marketing project for them considering they don't own a controlling stake in the team itself. It is times like this where car manufacturers start exiting big sports like this and I am surprised Honda is coming back in a more involved capacity. They are a company that usually run away at short notice the first sign of any economic trouble.
 
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The-Real-Deal82 said:
I'm not at all surprised Aston Martin are trying to recoup investment considering they are likely to be hit very hard by what is going on in the world right now. F1 is in effect a rather expensive marketing project for them considering they don't own a controlling stake in the team itself. It is times like this where car manufacturers start exiting big sports like this and I am surprised Honda is coming back in a more involved capacity. They are a company that usually run away at short notice the first sign of any economic trouble.
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Have Aston Martin actually made an investment? Or was this a way for Stroll to associate one of his companies with another and use their IP with the blessing of other share holders.

Aston Martin are a perpetually almost bankrupt business so I would be surprised if they have invested.
 
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danny842003 said:
I would say that’s incredibly harsh.


Have Aston Martin actually made an investment? Or was this a way for Stroll to associate one of his companies with another and use their IP with the blessing of other share holders.

Aston Martin a perpetually almost bankrupt business so I would be surprised if they have invested.
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What is incredibly harsh?
 
Personally, I don't see it happening. The PSU manufacturers will have spent a mint on the 2026 engines and I don't see them throwing that away in four years to go back to naturally-aspirated V10s. Also, with more and more countries effectively outlawing the sale of internal combustion engines over the next decade or so, a naturally-aspirated V10 is completely useless to those OEMs for their consumer and commercial programs.
 
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CWallace said:
Personally, I don't see it happening. The PSU manufacturers will have spent a mint on the 2026 engines and I don't see them throwing that away in four years to go back to naturally-aspirated V10s. Also, with more and more countries effectively outlawing the sale of internal combustion engines over the next decade or so, a naturally-aspirated V10 is completely useless to those OEMs for their consumer and commercial programs.
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I agree. All the V-10 talk seems very outdated.
 
Glideslope said:
Any thoughts?

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No chance unless Audi get an immediate buy out.
I could see red bull getting a deal with Honda but Audi is going to be a real show stopper.
I don’t actually believe there’s a real desire for it inside the actual sport anyway.
 
As cool as it would be for fans, I don't see this happening any time soon. The car industry has long since moved away from this sort of technology. Just count ourselves lucky we are old enough to have witnessed V12, V10 and V8's live in the flesh and experienced the feeling of them through our bodies trackside. World's away from the appalling sounding V6 Hybrids that sound like turbo charged lawnmowers.
 
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The-Real-Deal82 said:
As cool as it would be for fans, I don't see this happening any time soon. The car industry has long since moved away from this sort of technology. Just count ourselves lucky we are old enough to have witnessed V12, V10 and V8's live in the flesh and experienced the feeling of them through our bodies trackside. World's away from the appalling sounding V6 Hybrids that sound like turbo charged lawnmowers.
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My lawnmower is electric!
 
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I was never a fan of the high RPM sounds of the V10s and V8s and much prefer the lower pitch of the current regulations. To me the higher RPM is just a sign of weak engines that are only able to make power by spinning them like crazy. I realize I'm in the minority though.

If you want to hear power you go to a top fuel drag race. They're so loud that it blurs your vision.
 
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headlessmike said:
I was never a fan of the high RPM sounds of the V10s and V8s and much prefer the lower pitch of the current regulations. To me the higher RPM is just a sign of weak engines that are only able to make power by spinning them like crazy. I realize I'm in the minority though.

If you want to hear power you go to a top fuel drag race. They're so loud that it blurs your vision.
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After going to the Singapore GP last year I found them loud enough. They had a round of the Asian Porsche Carerra cup which were impressively loud but 10 minutes and I was over it.
 
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headlessmike said:
I was never a fan of the high RPM sounds of the V10s and V8s and much prefer the lower pitch of the current regulations. To me the higher RPM is just a sign of weak engines that are only able to make power by spinning them like crazy. I realize I'm in the minority though.

If you want to hear power you go to a top fuel drag race. They're so loud that it blurs your vision.
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Those "weak V10" cars are faster than the 2025 cars. Ralph Schumacher drove his old Williams V10 with modern rubber and his time was fast enough to be on the front row on the grid, while driving slowly.

Back then, F1 cars with their "weak V10" engines were hitting 380 km/h at Monza, and these cars were so fast, the FIA banned slick tyres to slow these cars down and were basically running wet tyres even in the dry.
 
RedBull this weekend:

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Love it!
 
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headlessmike said:
I was never a fan of the high RPM sounds of the V10s and V8s and much prefer the lower pitch of the current regulations. To me the higher RPM is just a sign of weak engines that are only able to make power by spinning them like crazy. I realize I'm in the minority though.

If you want to hear power you go to a top fuel drag race. They're so loud that it blurs your vision.
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It wasn't the decibel's that impressed me, it was the tone and sense of power the V10's and V8's used to display when trackside. It was quite an experience standing at Stowe corner at Silverstone listening to 20 odd cars exiting Maggots and Becketts, through Chapel and screaming down the Hangar Straight. Always wore hearing protection, but it was more impressive to me than the hum and drone that we have now. Not that I have any interest in going to a Grand Prix now lol, I'd rather watch it on the TV as I've done enough in my lifetime. Obviously each to their own and all that.
 
Zest28 said:
Those "weak V10" cars are faster than the 2025 cars. Ralph Schumacher drove his old Williams V10 with modern rubber and his time was fast enough to be on the front row on the grid, while driving slowly.

Back then, F1 cars with their "weak V10" engines were hitting 380 km/h at Monza, and these cars were so fast, the FIA banned slick tyres to slow these cars down and were basically running wet tyres even in the dry.
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The cars were faster in a straight line because they were tiny, had much less drag than modern cars (thanks in part to their narrow wheels) and didn’t have restrictions on fuel flow. A small naturally aspirated V10 or V8 will make next to no torque with it’s tiny pistons and short stroke and the only way to get any horsepower is to spin them, which is why they had their characteristic high-pitched whine. They’re essentially glorified powertool engines. The turbo engines of the 80s and hybrids of the modern era produce way more torque over a wider power band and ultimately produce more horsepower as well. They would be much faster than the V10 cars if the regulations allowed them. If we want F1 to be the pinnacle of motorsport and technological development I’d much rather have a modern power unit than a relic of the past.
 
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The-Real-Deal82 said:
It wasn't the decibel's that impressed me, it was the tone and sense of power the V10's and V8's used to display when trackside. It was quite an experience standing at Stowe corner at Silverstone listening to 20 odd cars exiting Maggots and Becketts, through Chapel and screaming down the Hangar Straight. Always wore hearing protection, but it was more impressive to me than the hum and drone that we have now. Not that I have any interest in going to a Grand Prix now lol, I'd rather watch it on the TV as I've done enough in my lifetime. Obviously each to their own and all that.
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V10s and V8s produce sounds with distinct musical intervals too, which can evoke different sensations. The V10 sound carries some dissonance which gives all V10s a distinct sound. V8s produce pure octave tones which are simpler and less ”interesting”. Then there’s V6s and V12s that have similar tones with fifth notes, usually considered more harmonic.
 
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headlessmike said:
The cars were faster in a straight line because they were tiny, had much less drag than modern cars (thanks in part to their narrow wheels) and didn’t have restrictions on fuel flow. A small naturally aspirated V10 or V8 will make next to no torque with it’s tiny pistons and short stroke and the only way to get any horsepower is to spin them, which is why they had their characteristic high-pitched whine. They’re essentially glorified powertool engines. The turbo engines of the 80s and hybrids of the modern era produce way more torque over a wider power band and ultimately produce more horsepower as well. They would be much faster than the V10 cars if the regulations allowed them. If we want F1 to be the pinnacle of motorsport and technological development I’d much rather have a modern power unit than a relic of the past.
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Let's see:
- F1 2025 engines only have 850 hps (and get around 1000 hps with a temporary boost that cannot be used constantly)
- Super old V10 engines had 1000+ hps constantly available (V10 engines in 2025 would be doing 1400+ hp most likely)
- 80's engines only had around 600+ hps and could only deliver 1300+hps on temporary basis with a boost.

And the aerodynamics of a F1 2025 car is much better than a F1 car from 2004, there is more than 20 years of aerodynamic developments from guys like Newey. There is not a chance those super old car had better aerodynamics.

Those super old V10 engines are simply the most powerful engines F1 has ever seen and has been the pinnacle. Especially with F1 cars, as there is no "turbo lag", meaning accelerating out of corners is much better which F1 cars are constantly doing.

Also, these hybrid cars have a huge weight penalty. The F1 cars with V10 engines weigh only 600kg, while modern F1 cars with hybrid engines weigh 800kg. So there is nothing "pinnacle" about the current engines.

F1 is not a drag race, weight matters too.
 
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Zest28 said:
Let's see:
- F1 2025 engines only have 850 hps (and get around 1000 hps with a temporary boost that cannot be used constantly)
- Super old V10 engines had 1000+ hps constantly available (V10 engines in 2025 would be doing 1400+ hp most likely)
- 80's engines only had around 600+ hps and could only deliver 1300+hps on temporary basis with a boost.

And the aerodynamics of a F1 2025 car is much better than a F1 car from 2004, there is more than 20 years of aerodynamic developments from guys like Newey. There is not a chance those super old car had better aerodynamics.

Those super old V10 engines are simply the most powerful engines F1 has ever seen and has been the pinnacle. Especially with F1 cars, as there is no "turbo lag", meaning accelerating out of corners is much better which F1 cars are constantly doing.

Also, these hybrid cars have a huge weight penalty. The F1 cars with V10 engines weigh only 600kg, while modern F1 cars with hybrid engines weigh 800kg. So there is nothing "pinnacle" about the current engines.

F1 is not a drag race, weight matters too.
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You're missing a lot of details though. The naturally aspirated engines of the 90's and early 2000's had essentially the same thermal efficiency as F1 engines of the 1960's, so the only way they could produce more power was by using more fuel, e.g., with a larger displacement or by improving timing and spinning them faster, making it unlikely that they would be able to develop much more power now if they had continued development of the V10s given the other constraints we see in F1 regulations. The V6 hybrids produce about the same amount of power as the V10s despite operating in an era where fuel load (no refueling) and fuel flow rates are heavily restricted and an engine needs to last six or seven races. They can thus produce around 1000 hp while using half as much fuel as the V10s did. Given their much improved efficiency, the engines used in today's cars could probably push upwards of 2000 hp or more if they had the same laxer rules as in, say, 2001.

I never said that the aerodynamics is worse in 2025 than it was in 2004. The cars of today are simply much larger and more complex, so they will ultimately produce more drag. They produce a lot more downforce too, which is why they can corner much quicker, but it comes at the expense of top speed.

Turbo lag hasn't been a problem in the modern era of F1 either. That's part of the reason they introduced the MGU-H which keeps the turbo spinning even when the engine isn't being pushed. Back it up with the MGU-K and it's instant torque and you end up with a modern powertrain that is powerful over the full span of engine speeds. This isn't the 80's when turbo lag was indeed massive.

Weight is certainly a factor, but I'd argue that the size of the car is a larger factor when it comes to exciting racing. The 2014-16 cars had the same heavy power units as today but behaved more like the cars in the early 2000s thanks to their limited downforce and mechanical grip from the narrow tires. Simply replacing the current hybrid V6s with V10 without changing any other regulations won't improve racing.
 
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