32-bit programs in macOS 10.15

[zorinlynx]

Beyond drivers, which seem to be resolved, this is going to be problematic, as I don't feel strange that almost every mac user has a favourite app in 32bits. Even supported software could be lazy and late at taking every component to 64bits (Apple is being). And abandoned -but useful- apps could turn completely unusable.
Of course, there's the virtualisation way... It seems indirect and messy to me. Being prog. ignorant, I wonder if it's so difficult to develop a more specific way or program to keep using 32bits apps.
Apple made a much more incredible effort with "Rosetta"... and there's software to emulate 16bits DOS hardware... right now for your mac...
This is a question to skilled programmers:
So difficult to translate on the go, or manage a 32bit app on a 64bit system?
Really?
(I think Apple tries to hurry developers, but I bet there'll be a third party utility - if not Apple's- for 10.15 since day one).

The sad thing is there's really no reason for this. Executing 32-bit code is a feature of all x86_64 CPUs and that feature isn't likely to go away anytime soon. It's not like Apple is facing hardware on the horizon that won't run the code.

It's likely they just want to reduce MacOS development overhead by deprecating old libraries... but the end result is we lose access to software if it's no longer maintained.

 

[haralds]

Deprecating and removing 32 bit support means that the libraries, frameworks, and Applications no longer have to be universal. The main savings is on the following area:
- Testing - this is huge as system functionality keeps expanding
- Complexity of customer support
- Size of the system and app and all of their updates.
It is likely also in preparation for Universal libraries supporting ARM next year.

 

[tehabe]

I got an Epson scanner last year and when I noticed that the software is 32 bit I actually ask Epson about it, and they were not too concerned about it. Epson Scan is 32 bit only, while Epson Scan 2 is also 64 bit but my V600 can't be used with it. Because of that I got VueScan as soon as possible.

 

[lyleberman]

That's something I actually asked a while ago, over in this thread. It sounds like converting existing apps without source is tricky, so virtualisation is probably the way to go.

We should be able to run our 32 bit apps using Parallels and an older version of OS X. Still running Adobe CS6 and I'd love not to have to pay for an upgrade. Am I correct on this?

 

[chrfr]

We should be able to run our 32 bit apps using Parallels and an older version of OS X. Still running Adobe CS6 and I'd love not to have to pay for an upgrade. Am I correct on this?

There's no reason that shouldn't work, but in general macOS's performance is pretty slow when virtualized. Graphics acceleration is missing.

 

[Rastafabi]

That's exactly what I needed to know with certainty.
I'll postpone the upgrade to 10.15 until 64-bit versions of those critical drivers are available.
Thanks very much!

While the GUI configuration application might be 32bit the driver definitely isn't. macOS does not support 32bit device drivers since 10.8! Simply speaking with a 64bit kernel 32bit driver cannot be used and as 10.7 Lion was the last version with 32bit kernel support you do not need to worry about those.

 

[SoCalReviews]

While the GUI configuration application might be 32bit the driver definitely isn't. macOS does not support 32bit device drivers since 10.8! Simply speaking with a 64bit kernel 32bit driver cannot be used and as 10.7 Lion was the last version with 32bit kernel support you do not need to worry about those.

...So that would mean we only need to worry about the programs/apps being 64bit? The device drivers that have been working since 10.8 will continue to work in 10.15? This is the biggest concern that I have about 10.15. I guess we will find out more as the beta versions of 10.15 roll out.

 

[zorinlynx]

I got an Epson scanner last year and when I noticed that the software is 32 bit I actually ask Epson about it, and they were not too concerned about it. Epson Scan is 32 bit only, while Epson Scan 2 is also 64 bit but my V600 can't be used with it. Because of that I got VueScan as soon as possible.

This is why if I ever buy another scanner it's going to be a networked unit that I can just put on my WiFi and not have to connect to any specific computer with drivers.

I advise anyone buying this type of hardware to do the same these days. Companies simply DO NOT support hardware for very long, and if you can hit a device over the network to scan and print you won't have to worry since there's no drivers involved.

 

[InuNacho]

I got an Epson scanner last year and when I noticed that the software is 32 bit I actually ask Epson about it, and they were not too concerned about it. Epson Scan is 32 bit only, while Epson Scan 2 is also 64 bit but my V600 can't be used with it. Because of that I got VueScan as soon as possible.

Hmm, I use an Epson 4990 which is practically a 700/750 with a fluorescent bulb instead of LED. I bought Vuescan before Silverfast for another scanner and was disgusted by the film scanning, maybe its different on a flatbed scanner?

This is why if I ever buy another scanner it's going to be a networked unit that I can just put on my WiFi and not have to connect to any specific computer with drivers.

I advise anyone buying this type of hardware to do the same these days. Companies simply DO NOT support hardware for very long, and if you can hit a device over the network to scan and print you won't have to worry since there's no drivers involved.

Care to elaborate on this? My Epson 7600 can only connect via USB 1.1 or Serial while my newer Canon Pro-100 can do USB and Wireless. I've never done wireless printing, is it more of a future proof option?
I don't think I'll ever be able to scan wirelessly as I've never seen a scanner that offers that, and the 1GB+ tiffs would take an eternity of my N network.

 

[tehabe]

I bought Vuescan before Silverfast for another scanner and was disgusted by the film scanning, maybe its different on a flatbed scanner?

VueScan doesn't do much automatically. Maybe that is the reason for that. I don't know. Do you have an example of the results?

I also asked Epson again about it, maybe I get a different answer this time.

 

[donluca]

This is going to be the armageddon for me. Just checked and half of my apps are not 64-bit. And the worse thing is that those are all apps made by small developers which didn't get an update for more than 10 years and I still use from time to time and there are no alternatives, other than using similar apps on a virtual machine on windows.
Of course, there's the virtualization way (and with 48GB of RAM and 24 thread there won't be a problem), but a nice wrapper (like wine) would go a loooooooong way...

 

[AnonMac50]

This is going to be the armageddon for me. Just checked and half of my apps are not 64-bit. And the worse thing is that those are all apps made by small developers which didn't get an update for more than 10 years and I still use from time to time and there are no alternatives, other than using similar apps on a virtual machine on windows.
Of course, there's the virtualization way (and with 48GB of RAM and 24 thread there won't be a problem), but a nice wrapper (like wine) would go a loooooooong way...

Speaking of Wine, it has become very glitchy for me since Mojave, and I can't seem get it back to normal.

 

[donluca]

Have you tried the newest Staging wrappers? I had some issues as well on High Sierra 10.13.6 but solved by using the Staging ones.

 

[Rastafabi]

...So that would mean we only need to worry about the programs/apps being 64bit? The device drivers that have been working since 10.8 will continue to work in 10.15? This is the biggest concern that I have about 10.15. I guess we will find out more as the beta versions of 10.15 roll out.

Essentially yes. While there could be other incompatibilities, at least the instruction set isn’t one.

 

[MisterSavage]

Sadly, there is every incentive for printer/scanner producers to NOT update to 64-bit. It is going to be a big problem with 10.15.

Canon have already stopped supporting my scanner with 10.14. Vuescan works, of course, as does the Canon software running in a Windows virtual machine.

Vuescan has been 64-bit since 2010! Canon's decision is customer-hostile and perhaps even unethical.
It has nothing to do with "bitness," but after 23 years of laser and inkjet HP printers, I bought an Epson in 2013 for the more-economical ink. It turned out that the best reason for switching, however, was that after a quarter century of constant cussing at crappy HP printer software, I had a printer/scanner that always just works. HP has always-buggy software. Canon won't keep theirs up to date. Epson's is flawless. For me, software has become a prime consideration in choosing a printer.

I feel your pain. I lost the ability to scan with my Canon printer/scanner combo one or two releases of OS X ago.

 

[zorinlynx]

I just found out that Team Fortress 2 (the only game I really play anymore) is 32-bit.

Ugh. Guess I'm going to be staying on Mojave for a while unless Valve rebuilds it 64-bit, which I doubt they'll do because it's an oooooooold game.

 

[tehabe]

And the worse thing is that those are all apps made by small developers which didn't get an update for more than 10 years and I still use from time to time and there are no alternatives, other than using similar apps on a virtual machine on windows.

I wonder what those apps are. Most of time there is an alternative, just unknown to you.

 

[crjackson2134]

Canon have already stopped supporting my scanner with 10.14

Cannon stopped supporting my scanner several years ago. I use VueScan for many years now, and it works great (albeit without all the bells and useless whistles).

 

[flowrider]

^^^^As you know I use VueScan also. But, I use the Pro Version - with all the options and useless whistles

Lou

 

[Isamilis]

Obviously! Apple even still support Sierra / High Sierra - which few versions older than Mojave.
Questions, would be, what are the key features that upgrading to Catalina is worthwhile?

Hopefully Apple will support Mojave for a while. I can see many people being unable to upgrade because they're running older software and drivers.

 

[Rastafabi]

I just found out that Team Fortress 2 (the only game I really play anymore) is 32-bit.

Ugh. Guess I'm going to be staying on Mojave for a while unless Valve rebuilds it 64-bit, which I doubt they'll do because it's an oooooooold game.

You might be able to install the 32bit Windows (if there's no 64bit version either) version with CodeWeavers' Crossover just in time, as they are currently developing transformation layer for the underlying wine windows api interpreter.

 

[MisterSavage]

I can't believe Steam hasn't been updated. I just launched it and got the warning about how this version won't work in future versions of Mac OS.

 

[Fishrrman]

My solution to the 32-bit issue is:
"Stasis".

That is to say, I bought a 2018 Mini which will forever remain "a 32-bit Mac".
That means the last (and only) OS installed on its internal drive will be Mojave.

I have numerous 32-bit apps I like and use every day that have no 64-bit replacements.
I intend to keep using them for at least the next 5, 6, 7 years (or longer).

Thus... a "Mojave Mini forever".

Aside:
People will reply, "but you won't get security updates".
To which I'll say, I care NOTHING about "security".
I just don't care. (look at my avatar, and you'll understand)
I've used very old versions of the OS on other Macs for years, with no "security problems" at all for having done so.

Having said that...
... I will put together one or more fast external SSDs, and keep copies of newer versions of the OS on them. I had a copy installed of Catalina within hours of its release (not impressed by what I'm seeing yet).

But for THIS Mini, again:
"Stasis".

 

[donluca]

I wonder what those apps are. Most of time there is an alternative, just unknown to you.

Most important ones:

abgx360gui (Xbox360 utility)
AIFF from PCM (for esoteric PCM audio files)
AnyToISO (again, for strange ISOs which I need to extract)
Aria Maestosa (MIDI app)
Audio Overload (app to playback arcade game music)
AudioMonitor (very simple and straightforward audio streams bridge)
basICColor Display (display calibration, I really hope they're gonna update this)
CueMix FX & others (MOTU audio interface software)
DVDAExplorer (app to extract high resolution audio tracks from DVD Audio *losslessly*)
Jumpcut (it saves a history of what's been in the clipboard, VERY handy)
kid3 (very straightforward software for mass-editing ID tags in audio files)
Max (audio conversion software)
MIDI Patchbay, MIDI keys, MIDI logger, Midi Pipe (MIDI tools)
OSx360 (make Xbox360 pads work on OSX)
Platypus (create standalone apps from various kind of scripts)
Prometeus (tool to manage Sony PSP's disk images)
TC Near Control Panel (TC Electronic audio interface software)
Transmission Remote GUI (to remotely control my NAS torrent client)
tsMuxerGUI (audio/video stream tool)
uTorrent
VideoGlide Capture (for my video capture card)
WBFS (Wii File System tool)
XLD (the best tool to convert audio files in Mac OS. Period.)

And this is excluding all the games I have and Steam and whatnot.

 

[MiniMoney]

This is a question to skilled programmers:
So difficult to translate on the go, or manage a 32bit app on a 64bit system?
Really?

Converting a driver from 32 bit to 64 isn’t hard. It’s more of an issue of administration and economics. Managing several different codebases for combinations of hardware and operating systems gets complicated. Putting one small dog into a car isn’t technically challenging. However putting fifteen small dogs into a car is difficult. I know it’s not a great analogy but it’s all I’ve got. In regard to economics, it isn’t profitable to update drivers for hardware they no longer sell. Sure, one could argue that making the customers with old hardware happy is worth something but most companies don’t look at it that way.

I know it sucks. I was in this situation many years ago with an HP scanner and a new version of Windows. I wasn’t aware of VMs or VueScan at the time, so I ended up giving it to Goodwill. I bet there’s lots of perfectly good hardware sitting in landfills because of this sort of thing. If I were king, I would make it a law that hardware manufacturers have to publish, for free, the tech specs necessary to write device drivers of hardware they no longer want to support. Independent developers could then write device drivers for new operating systems.