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Xiao_Xi

macrumors 68000
Oct 27, 2021
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1,101
What could Apple and Blender developers talk about?
  • During conference there will be a meeting to discuss the future plans for Metal.
 

Boil

macrumors 68040
Oct 23, 2018
3,478
3,173
Stargate Command
What could Apple and Blender developers talk about?


Hardware ray-tracing and the ASi Mac Pro (3nm M3 SoCs), NDAs for everyone...?!?
 
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mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,625
11,297
Blender on MacOS Ventura shaves off some time on BMW sample scene. From previously recorded 2m48s to 2m:21s.
Screenshot 2022-10-24 at 5.42.20 PM.png
 

Xiao_Xi

macrumors 68000
Oct 27, 2021
1,628
1,101
Blender on MacOS Ventura shaves off some time on BMW sample scene. From previously recorded 2m48s to 2m:21s.
mmm improved drivers/optimisation from Metal 3?

Ventura seems to bring some optimization, especially for M2.
This patch tunes maximum threads-per-threadgroup and threads-per-block for faster renders on Apple GPUs. Appropriate tuning is selected based on the GPU architecture (M1 or M2). We see a benchmark uplift of around 5-10% on M1 family chips. Similar uplift is expected on M2 with upcoming OS changes. (Ref T101931)
 

BootLoxes

macrumors 6502a
Apr 15, 2019
749
897
Looked at the steam page for substance painter and theres a comment in the patch notes saying they added apple silicon support: "Optimized build for Apple Silicon chipset (Apple M1 / M2)"

Designer has this too. I wonder if it will use the GPU now. I have last year's version so I cannot check
 
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Boil

macrumors 68040
Oct 23, 2018
3,478
3,173
Stargate Command
Maybe Apple surprises us all and debuts the ASi Mac Pro with hardware ray-tracing...?!?

Meaning the M2 Pro / Max / Ultra / Extreme SoCs get it this round, but the base Mn SoC has to wait until the M3 family comes out; just like they did with the Media Engine and the M1 / M2 base SoCs...
 

sirio76

macrumors 6502a
Mar 28, 2013
578
416
Amazing.. even if new SoC comes with raytracing hardware it will take a couple years for developers to get a decent implementation, then optimization.
That means 2025 and still not as fast as Nvidia hardware because you can not compete with cards that consume 600W and have been optimized for 10 years.
I know GPU folks will tell that GPU is faster (which is not necessarily true), but I feel lucky to use robust and optimized (since 2021) CPU engines, I need to get the job done after all, no time for silly benchmark (those really do not mean anything because the thing that means the most is the artist talent and the fastest hardware on the universe can not give you that).
 
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McDaveH

macrumors member
Dec 14, 2017
30
15
For Redshift3D, scaling is actually worse. My m1 max does the bench in 10 min flat. A full Ultra about 7m 30s. To be honest, I (and others) hoped that the Ultra would have scaled better than linear in RS due to increased bandwidth etc so it was quite sad to see the numbers trickle in. Octane and Cycles seems to be best in class right now and giving about the same perf as a single 6800 (not XT!) for the Ultra. I guess we have been through this before in this long thread but extrapolating from rumours etc gives that we need something more than just an evolution of the Apple silicon series in the GPU department. Heck, all other gpu, even Intels Arc, have RT cores now. Macs have gone from having GPUS (from AMD) with ballpark specs of the windows competition (or maybe 50% at worst?) to being at least 2 full generations behind. The CPU is really nice so it is sad that it cannot be matched with an equally impressive GPU. Let's assume we get RT cores on the Max and Ultra chips and they solve the scaling to be linear or at least 90%. Best case improvement for the M2 Max would then be 40% increase due to 4x10 cores with slightly higher clocks giving us about the same perf as a current 48 GPU core m1 ultra. Doubling that (requires good scaling!) for the m2 ultra we are at about 2500 point in the linked blender bench. Or about the same perf as as nvidia 3060. If Apple can add RT cores for a 2x perf boost and some "extra fixes and optimisations " the Mac might be relevant again considering power draw. Let's hope.
Have you found any upside under Ventura? I was wondering if Metal3 quietly introduce implicit tile-memory caching.
 

McDaveH

macrumors member
Dec 14, 2017
30
15
What could Apple and Blender developers talk about?

This is where Apple Silicon should shine, GPU rasterisation did actually beat the RTX3090 on GFXBench.
 
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innerproduct

macrumors regular
Jun 21, 2021
222
353
Have you found any upside under Ventura? I was wondering if Metal3 quietly introduce implicit tile-memory caching.
Rs and octane doesn’t yet work on ventura. I usually wait until all sw I used have been cleared before I update to new OS. I don’t think there will be massive improvements though
 

stevemiller

macrumors 68020
Oct 27, 2008
2,057
1,607
That's on a MacBook Air right? (similar to my scores) - what's the upside on a Max or Ultra?
on an m1 max 16" the bmw scene can dip below 40s now, which i hadn't seen before. in one run i even got sub 38s, but i haven't been able to replicate that.
 

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innerproduct

macrumors regular
Jun 21, 2021
222
353
today amd 7900 series cards come to the market and had Apple still used them people would have access to a 2-3x compute perf upgrade for their egpus or macpros. That would mean that if allowed in the 2019 macpro those who needs rendering power could put in at least 2 meaning combined compute power the 150 Teraflop range. But that was before…. Now we have iphone chips inside even the most powerful mac machines maxing out at 20 TF if it had scaled ok (it doesn’t). This is so bad.
 

jmho

macrumors 6502a
Jun 11, 2021
502
996
Weird, so much of the code Apple has been adding to Blender has been to support AMD (and Intel) cards on macOS 13 so it's crazy if they're dropping support.

Plus there have been references to Navi 31 in AMD's macOS drivers since Big Sur in 2020.
 

tomO2013

macrumors member
Feb 11, 2020
67
102
Canada
I’m very much looking forward to this AMD release.

I was disappointed with the direction that NVidia went with the latest 4090 (power requirements and cost).

I’d be happy to see 90% the performance of a 4090 in games at even 70% the power.

I’d also like to see greater support for ROCM5 on RDNA3 (I know they introduce limited RDNA2 support earlier in the year with ROCm 5… but they still have a massive gap to close with nVidia. Even supporting something like SPIR-V as an intermediary language would be a nice step/gesture :)

Let’s wait and see what they announce - I’m not holding my breadth for any major announcements on the ML side, beyond wishful thinking (above) that they will stop being so protective of their CDNA line.
 

jmho

macrumors 6502a
Jun 11, 2021
502
996
Seemed like a semi-decent card. Especially since it has a USB-C port, which means it should be compatible with Apple's displays for if they do come with A W7900 version for the 2019 Mac Pro.
 
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BootLoxes

macrumors 6502a
Apr 15, 2019
749
897
Does anyone have this year's version of Steam Substance Painter or the Subscription version? If so can you check if the new AS builds use the GPU?

I have last years Steam version which is Rosetta and CPU only
 
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