4.1 Dual CPU Delid? or Leave the lid down?

[Macschrauber]

I keep on saying: its not recommended and not the proper way changing the design.

Delidding with a mechanical tool and a little heat to soften the tin is the method.

Polish the remains and cut the silicone glue off on the contacts side.

Use the spacer.

Did that often and had zero issues with it. All those boxes still work and a lot of them where shipped and had mechanical stress, so.

Cutting the fan/sensor plugs and adding more thermal material to the voltage regulators worries me more than the thicker CPUs due the heat spreader.

 

[MIKX]

I keep on saying: its not recommended and not the proper way changing the design.
Delidding with a mechanical tool and a little heat to soften the tin is the method.
Polish the remains and cut the silicone glue off on the contacts side.
Use the spacer.
Did that often and had zero issues with it. All those boxes still work and a lot of them where shipped and had mechanical stress, so.

Cutting the fan/sensor plugs and adding more thermal material to the voltage regulators worries me more than the thicker CPUs due the heat spreader.

I agree wholeheartedly 😇

 

[MacZoltan]

I keep on saying: its not recommended and not the proper way changing the design.

Delidding with a mechanical tool and a little heat to soften the tin is the method.

Polish the remains and cut the silicone glue off on the contacts side.

Use the spacer.

Did that often and had zero issues with it. All those boxes still work and a lot of them where shipped and had mechanical stress, so.

Cutting the fan/sensor plugs and adding more thermal material to the voltage regulators worries me more than the thicker CPUs due the heat spreader.

many of my customer would disagree with you after getting a delidded unit from someone on eBay than having it replaced by me when it died on them after 6-12 months of use. but like i said it is an option either way up to you
I am rarely doing it nowdays that is why shared it on youtube and got a lot positive responses anyway.
If you take your time and not damaging the Intel design it last longer then otherwise. Although both works just fine.

 

[Macschrauber]

Ive seen delidded CPUs on eBay with just ripped off heat spreaders. With such an surface it could not last for a long time. No thermal compound will fill such gaps, also the height will not fit.

I do electronics for living and know by experience: the thing what lasts is not to try to change what designers did.

Sometimes a little boring, but this will get the job done.

 

[MacZoltan]

out of curiosity what level c heat you would use for delidding to avoid damage to components considering the built in shut down system of the CPU is way lower then the solder melting point?
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If you use lidded Xeons with a MP4,1, you assume the risk of damaging the CPU sockets. So many people damaged the tray that it's just dumb to do it.

out of curiosity what level c heat you would use for delidding to avoid damage to components considering the built in shut down system of the CPU is way lower then the solder melting point?
i know you are quite knowledgeable')

 

[tsialex]

out of curiosity what level c heat you would use for delidding to avoid damage to components considering the built in shut down system of the CPU is way lower then the solder melting point?
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out of curiosity what level c heat you would use for delidding to avoid damage to components considering the built in shut down system of the CPU is way lower then the solder melting point?
i know you are quite knowledgeable')

You don't need to melt the solder to de-lid at all.

After you remove the black glue (seems very similar to engine sealant) around the lid, just use a vice. Some heat applied to the lid with a hot gun makes the process a lot easier, but it's not really necessary.

 

[Macschrauber]

I have a bunch of heat spreaders and will test the melting point of that tin with a hot air station this evening.

 

[KeesMacPro]

considering the built in shut down system of the CPU is way lower then the solder melting point?

If this is regular solder for electronics, melting point ~180 degrees Celsius
If its with silver added its ~ 220 degrees Celsius

 

[MacZoltan]

I have a bunch of heat spreaders and will test the melting point of that tin with a hot air station this evening.

thanks, would be great

 

[MIKX]

Last year I tested delidding some spare IHS CPUs and was able to get the IHS to just 'drop off' using a gas cigarette lighter.

The most important thing I discovered was when inserting 4 razor blades was to ANGLE THEM about 5° upwards to avoid slicing any CPU components.

 

[MacZoltan]

If this is regular solder for electronics, melting point ~180 degrees Celsius
If its with silver added its ~ 220 degrees Celsius

yes, that is my concern, the killing pemp for a CPU resistor or dy is less i believe, I got a heatgun with 10c stepping , ill try to delidd just for fun as i still believe the way I do works 100% and without compromising anythyng on the CPU or daughterboard.

 

[Macschrauber]

I took a lid and the tin started to melt with 330 Celsius hot air

 

[Macschrauber]

yes, expected a lower temperature.

 

[MacZoltan]

yes, expected a lower temperature.

that can easily kill the cpu, not sure why it is recommended by you then

 

[KeesMacPro]

that can easily kill the cpu, not sure why it is recommended by you then

I bet 330 C will kill it
He never did..

 

[Macschrauber]

that can easily kill the cpu, not sure why it is recommended by you then

No, I didnt, I just tested the melt point of the tin with a cap what was already removed from the processor.
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but anyway, if we need 330 Celsius to melt the tin than every cpu would be killed by the process of delidding with a heat source. Many people delid that way.

2nd point: If the tin needs 330 to melt than it would need 330 during fabrication.

3rd point: During BGA soldering the heat of the components are also much higher.

4rd point: 330 Celsius was the display of my simple hot air station, not sure what the real tin temperature was.

I have my infrared thermometer at work because of Covid-19.


When I delid I give 200 celsius for about 10 seconds to the cap and use a mechanical tool to move the cap aside. It needs a little less pressure so.

 

[MacZoltan]

No, I didnt, I just tested the melt point of the tin with a cap what was already removed from the processor.
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but anyway, if we need 330 Celsius to melt the tin than every cpu would be killed by the process of delidding with a heat source. Many people delid that way.

2nd point: If the tin needs 330 to melt than it would need 330 during fabrication.

3rd point: During BGA soldering the heat of the components are also much higher.

4rd point: 330 Celsius was the display of my simple hot air station, not sure what the real tin temperature was.

I have my infrared thermometer at work because of Covid-19.


When I delid I give 200 celsius for about 10 seconds to the cap and use a mechanical tool to move the cap aside. It needs a little less pressure so.

i see

 

[minifridge1138]

Just one perspective, but I left the lids on the x5680 CPUs when I upgraded my 4,1 -> 5,1.

I was just very careful tightening the heat sinks and it took a few tries to get it working (it was too loose, so I’d remove the tray, tighten it 1/8 of a turn, try again, repeat). I didn’t have to clip the wiring harness for the fans.

 

[Jiggly Billy]

Ordered 2x de-lidded X5675s for my newly acquired 4,1 Dual CPU to swap into my MP. 2x de-lidded cost only $10 more than 3x lidded and I WILL ruin 1 if not 2 of them because the world hates me like that.

Gladly paid extra to just be able to drop them in and move on with my life

 

[MacZoltan]

Just one perspective, but I left the lids on the x5680 CPUs when I upgraded my 4,1 -> 5,1.

I was just very careful tightening the heat sinks and it took a few tries to get it working (it was too loose, so I’d remove the tray, tighten it 1/8 of a turn, try again, repeat). I didn’t have to clip the wiring harness for the fans.

I know, that is why i made this video

but will try the delidding as the guy mentioned above, cutting the sides and applying just enough heat, probably ill go with a below temp of what would shut the CPU down by factory settings, around 70c

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Intel® Xeon® Processor X5690 (12M Cache, 3.46 GHz, 6.40 GT/s Intel® QPI) quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.

ark.intel.com

 

[KeesMacPro]

@MacZoltan :
Honestly, no offense intended but after watching the video I disagree on a few points you stated:

- Life span: delidding is not a form of damage, as long as it's done the correct way.
There are uncountable people including myself that have been using delidded CPU's for years and years, without issues.

-You count rotations disassembling the heatsink.IMO that doesn't make any sense because:
-even when you'd use the same CPU, after applying new thermal paste, the chance that the distance CPU-heatsink is equal is about 0%. I think there are better ways to do this...
-since you replace the delidded CPU by a lidded CPU it doesn't even make less sense, because of the height difference.

-You used alcohol 70% ... so the other 30% is what? water... which is corrosive, conductive and doesn't evaporate fast...
I recommend Isopropyl as a much saver and more efficient liquid to clean the CPU and heatsink.
It evaporates instantly without leaving any traces...

Sorry for my criticism

 

[MacZoltan]

@MacZoltan :
Honestly, no offense intended but after watching the video I disagree on a few points you stated:

- Life span: delidding is not a form of damage, as long as it's done the correct way.
There are uncountable people including myself that have been using delidded CPU's for years and years, without issues.

-You count rotations disassembling the heatsink.IMO that doesn't make any sense because:
-even when you'd use the same CPU, after applying new thermal paste, the chance that the distance CPU-heatsink is equal is about 0%. I think there are better ways to do this...
-since you replace the delidded CPU by a lidded CPU it doesn't even make less sense, because of the height difference.

-You used alcohol 70% ... so the other 30% is what? water... which is corrosive, conductive and doesn't evaporate fast...
I recommend Isopropyl as a much saver and more efficient liquid to clean the CPU and heatsink.
It evaporates instantly without leaving any traces...

Sorry for my criticism

no problem, non taken.

you were lucky then, i had many customer coming with delidded cpu issues, probably some bad eBay seller did the delidding. otherwise any mechanical force can damage the cpu die same goes with heat over 90c that is basic phisics and the design was not counting delidding i believe

counting helps if you would ever need to replace the cpu again.
stuck with me because back in the day i installed x5650 even in mac pros.

as you can see the rotation with the lidded cpu is 3 instead of the 9 that helps with the 2mm height difference, i just mentioned the rotation pairs to help out if your mac pro has less rotation when removing the old cpu.

the alcohol i use works great never had any residue dries fast, if you have better of course use that

 

[MIKX]

Post #3

Easy 4,1 dual CPU upgrade?

I want to upgrade a 4,1 single processor Mac Pro to dual CPU's. There has to be an easier way. From what I've seen, any reasonably priced 4,1 dual cpu tray is going to need the processors replaced. The whole de-lidded CPU thing is a turn off as there have been far too many posts of upgrades...

forums.macrumors.com

"Angling the razor blades upwards 5° "

"gas cigarette lighter "

 

[MacZoltan]

You don't need to melt the solder to de-lid at all.

After you remove the black glue (seems very similar to engine sealant) around the lid, just use a vice. Some heat applied to the lid with a hot gun makes the process a lot easier, but it's not really necessary.

like this?

 

[Macschrauber]

like this?

Omg,

I had to fast forward to not see the guy cuts his fingers.

Sitting on a rubber ball taking no ESD care is somewhat... no words....

At least he is polishing the die surface. But all with the naked fingers sitting on that rubber ball.

I use a scalpel to cut the gasket, btw and of course working on a ESD mat.