4.1 Dual CPU Delid? or Leave the lid down?

[Squuiid]

Tempted to get a 4,1 and do the upgrade to last me until the new Mac Pro comes out

I bought 2x X5677 CPUs which gives 8 cores at 3.46GHz in a dual CPU 2009.
Pair it with a good amount of RAM, an SSD and an RX 580 and you’ve got yourself a great Mac.
Only if you can pick up a 2009 model for virtually nothing though. I really don’t think it’s worth investing in one unless you can pick it up for dirt cheap.

 

[jetjaguar]

I bought 2x X5677 CPUs which gives 8 cores at 3.46GHz in a dual CPU 2009.
Pair it with a good amount of RAM, an SSD and an RX 580 and you’ve got yourself a great Mac.
Only if you can pick up a 2009 model for virtually nothing though. I really don’t think it’s worth investing in one unless you can pick it up for dirt cheap.

what do u consider dirt cheap

 

[h9826790]

what do u consider dirt cheap

For me, dual processor model, target $250 or lower. And definitely not above $400 now.

 

[jetjaguar]

For me, dual processor model, target $250 or lower. And definitely not above $400 now.

that would be nice but everyone seems to think their 4,1s are worth 700+

 

[h9826790]

that would be nice but everyone seems to think their 4,1s are worth 700+

They do exist, not always available of course, and may not be easy to find.

And $700 is the normal asking price, nothing close to cheap.

That's why I said at least below $400, and $250 consider dirty cheap for me.

 

[m4f1050]

They do exist, not always available of course, and may not be easy to find.

And $700 is the normal asking price, nothing close to cheap.

That's why I said at least below $400, and $250 consider dirty cheap for me.

Pardon my noob question, but if I own a Mac Pro 5,1 that means I do not have to delid my CPU's? Is there an advantage on deliding or it's just for fit purposes? Thinking about getting the 6-core 3.46GHz chips for my dual Mac Pro 5,1.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[digidow]

Pardon my noob question, but if I own a Mac Pro 5,1 that means I do not have to delid my CPU's? Is there an advantage on deliding or it's just for fit purposes? Thinking about getting the 6-core 3.46GHz chips for my dual Mac Pro 5,1.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

You do not delid for an original 5,1. Just drop them.

 

[m4f1050]

You do not delid for an original 5,1. Just drop them.

Nice! Thanks!

So why the delid on older ones? Just to be "Apple"? :-D

 

[mikeboss]

Nice! Thanks!

So why the delid on older ones? Just to be "Apple"? :-D

because the CPUs installed at the factory are delidded. CPUs with an attached heatspreader won't fit properly in dual socket MacPro4,1.

 

[adam9c1]

X5677 vs X5690

What’s the difference?
Compatible in a 2010-12 5,1?

Yeah 400 is a single CPU category Good price.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^The X5677 is a 4 core CPU, the X5690 is a 6 core CPU. Both run at 3.46 HGz. Personally I am using dual X5677s in my 5,1. 8 cores is plenty for what I do.

Lou

 

[mattspace]

Nice! Thanks!

So why the delid on older ones? Just to be "Apple"? :-D

Probably a performance / cooling / noise tradeoff - by the time of the 5,1 I assume the next generation of Xeons were able to run cool enough that they could leave the lids on and get the same performance from the cooling system they'd already designed. The single CPU machines always had lidded CPUs, and much more radiator dedicated to the one processor.

Or it could be something like component pricing being different with the lid on or off when the 4,1 debuted, vs the 5,1.

 

[moils]

Hi everyone, I tried using the iron method to delid this CPU but it didn't work well because I did not cut enough glue. So then I used the vice method and it worked wonderfully. But I sort of nicked a resistor/capacitor on this CPU die and also the PCB a little bit. Does this look like it might work? Unfortunately I cannot actually test this CPU for a while and this is driving me crazy. I know it's hard to tell but thought I would send this photo anyway. I cut the PCB on the top right and nicked a resistor on the right hand side (the bottom one). The 2nd CPU looks really great compared to this.

Also, I've been told that sanding the CPU die is a good way to clear up the gunk on it, with 2000 grit sandpaper. I've seen videos where people use water but that seems too risky. Anyone have any experience with this? The previous shots with Flitz polish look really nice but I wonder if Flitz is safe to use on CPUs? Thanks!

 

[UKenGB]

This seems to be the best place to ask, so what is the difference between the 4,1 and the 5,1 (CPUs and trays) apart from the IHS (or not)?

Obviously both models use heat sinks and both have fans, but what are the differences that mean a lidded CPU cannot be used in the 4,1?

As far as I can imagine, the heat sinks must be different to allow for the difference in the shape of the top of the CPU. So the 5,1 heatsink is a different part from a 4,1 heatsink to accommodate this?

Is the fan connection different or is this problem just a by-product of trying to use the wrong heat sink for the CPU?

Reason I ask is that it looks to me that with the suitable heatsink, lidded CPUs would fit perfectly in a 4,1 and in which case, could 5,1 heatsinks be used in a 4,1 and allow the use of lidded CPUs?

And the final question, would it not be possible to modify a 4,1 heatsink to accept a lidded CPU? Surely it can only be the shape of the heatsink where it fits onto the CPU that varies. Would it not be possible to simply machine (mill) the 4,1 heatsink to mimic the underside of a 5,1 heatsink.

Because:
I have a 4,1 and don't have any 5,1 heatsinks, but I DO have a mill and like the idea of being able to then simply slot in any compatible lidded CPU which are easier to get hold of etc.

Not having any of these heatsinks spare, I cannot see the differences for myself, but no doubt someone on here has plenty of experience on these and could advise me.

Thanks.

 

[h9826790]

This seems to be the best place to ask, so what is the difference between the 4,1 and the 5,1 (CPUs and trays) apart from the IHS (or not)?

Obviously both models use heat sinks and both have fans, but what are the differences that mean a lidded CPU cannot be used in the 4,1?

As far as I can imagine, the heat sinks must be different to allow for the difference in the shape of the top of the CPU. So the 5,1 heatsink is a different part from a 4,1 heatsink to accommodate this?

Is the fan connection different or is this problem just a by-product of trying to use the wrong heat sink for the CPU?

Reason I ask is that it looks to me that with the suitable heatsink, lidded CPUs would fit perfectly in a 4,1 and in which case, could 5,1 heatsinks be used in a 4,1 and allow the use of lidded CPUs?

And the final question, would it not be possible to modify a 4,1 heatsink to accept a lidded CPU? Surely it can only be the shape of the heatsink where it fits onto the CPU that varies. Would it not be possible to simply machine (mill) the 4,1 heatsink to mimic the underside of a 5,1 heatsink.

Because:
I have a 4,1 and don't have any 5,1 heatsinks, but I DO have a mill and like the idea of being able to then simply slot in any compatible lidded CPU which are easier to get hold of etc.

Not having any of these heatsinks spare, I cannot see the differences for myself, but no doubt someone on here has plenty of experience on these and could advise me.

Thanks.

If few washers can make the lidded CPU installation can safely carry out, then why make it so complicated?

For delidding, $50 can fix the problem (if you prefer to use a "proper" tool).

https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/products/lga-1366-delid-tool?variant=2388025671693

Anyway, from memory, no one try 5,1 heatsink on a 4,1 yet. If you don't mind to risk the CPU socket, and planed to try it, please report back the result, and let us know if this another way out. Cheers!

 

[flowrider]

This seems to be the best place to ask, so what is the difference between the 4,1 and the 5,1 (CPUs and trays) apart from the IHS (or not)?

This question has been asked and answered many many times over the years. The Search Function on this site works.

You'll even find your answer doing a Google Search. Here's one:

https://www.imore.com/how-upgrade-your-older-mac-pro-cpu

Lou

 

[UKenGB]

This question has been asked and answered many many times over the years. The Search Function on this site works.

You'll even find your answer doing a Google Search. Here's one:

https://www.imore.com/how-upgrade-your-older-mac-pro-cpu

Lou

Ah Google, I hadn't thought of that. Ha. Do you think everyone else is a complete idiot apart from you. Don't bother to answer that. In fact, don't bother to reply at all if you obviously haven't bothered to read the original question thoroughly.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^Sorry for the rumpled feathers - Ah, No I'm not.

Your question was so convoluted

and really showed little understanding of the issue. I thought the link might be of some help. Obviously not

Lou

 

[UKenGB]

I have subsequently seen pics/videos that show the underside of the heatsink and there's no way to simply re-shape the existing heatsink as it's not a simple block of aluminium. So much for that idea.

So it's down to de-lidding, using washers or finding a pair of 5,1 heatsinks. I think the latter is unlikely so looks like I'll just have to make a decision between the first 2. Any other ideas I'll keep to myself and avoid irritating replies.

 

[mattspace]

I have subsequently seen pics/videos that show the underside of the heatsink and there's no way to simply re-shape the existing heatsink as it's not a simple block of aluminium. So much for that idea.

I'd originally thought along the lines of putting 5,1 heat sinks onto the 4,1 board, but eventually came to the conclusion that a processor upgrade is likely a once-off thing for a machine this old - every speed of cpu that's going to work has already been made, so easier to just eat the extra cost of getting lidless cpus, and not worry.

 

[polanskiman]

I have subsequently seen pics/videos that show the underside of the heatsink and there's no way to simply re-shape the existing heatsink as it's not a simple block of aluminium. So much for that idea.

So it's down to de-lidding, using washers or finding a pair of 5,1 heatsinks. I think the latter is unlikely so looks like I'll just have to make a decision between the first 2. Any other ideas I'll keep to myself and avoid irritating replies.

Just delid the CPUs or simply buy them delided already although the second option usually comes at a higher price for obvious reasons. If you decide to delid yourself I recommend you try to find a sacrificial CPU to try it first.

In my opinion using delided CPUs is the way to go as it then becomes a simple swap procedure. No washers, cutting connecters or the such and wondering if the heatsink is tight enough. Below some pictures of the CPUs I delided few years ago.
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ave-the-lid-down.1959772/page-4#post-24600613

Another recommendation is that when you change your CPUs take that opportunity to clean everything, change thermal paste AND thermal pads surrounding the CPU but covered by the heatsink (the original pads are pink in color). Change the Northbridge plastic rivets if brittle and add new thermal compound. That chip run pretty pretty hot (80/90C).

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...dge-heat-sink-on-2009-mac-pro-2x2-26.1637891/

You might also want to read this for troubleshooting but most importantly for screwing back the heatsink: http://tim.id.au/laptops/apple/macpro/macpro_early2009.pdf

Have fun.

 

[0488568]

Interesting thread but to me the risk out weight the benefits.

I've been running lided CPUs with washers almost since I bought my machine in 2009 and haven't had any problems.

I personally would not recommend it unless you have the €€€ for new cpus.

 

[polanskiman]

Interesting thread but to me the risk out weight the benefits.

I've been running lided CPUs with washers almost since I bought my machine in 2009 and haven't had any problems.

I personally would not recommend it unless you have the €€€ for new cpus.

Both methods have risks. Using a lidded CPU could have the consequence of damaging the CPU socket.

I would rather pay another CPU than a new motherboard. But that's just me.

 

[caronte23]

Hey everyone, I just got myself a pair of lidded x5680s and I'm setting up all I need to delid them.
I'm planning to do a mix of the methods I've seen online, so slightly heating up the pad first (using a cardboard frame to direct the heat mainly at the die) and then using the vise to finish the job.
Looking up different info I've red the x56xx processors can operate up to 170 degrees and I've red that the solder used to attach the heatspreader is Iridium which is apperantly malleable and melts between 6-310 degrees ( I guess it means at 6 degrees is already soft, sort of).
So now I was considering different methods to apply a bit of heat and this seems to be the safest method I found yet:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FJ-LC-BA...m=362551523600&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

However they are in China, so I don't know if I want to wait, but supposely they only go up to 200 degrees, so with some care it could be just the perfect tool, otherwise I was thinking to use one of these:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Cor...h=item48468a7684:g:vWoAAOSw6EhURoSY:rk:1:pf:0

Although those put out up to 650 degrees so you'd have to be more careful...

 

[JedNZ]

I didn't heat anything when I did it so I can't share any advice on that front sorry.

But I've done 7 CPUs altogether using just the vice method - 4 older X5xxx models to first practise on, and then 3 X5680 that I've put in my cMPs. I've had zero issues, other than breaking the **** metal vice that I was using - some sort of cheap alloy that couldn't withstand the pressures when cranking it up. Pays to invest in a quality engineered vice.