ios?? your pro app must follow app store rules and be sandboxed? Also that may also = no NON APPLE storage? Be ready to pay $200+ an TB with raid 0 as the only choice!!
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MP All Models 40 core ASI with PCI-E slot is around the corner!!
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- I try to squeeze some info about 3rd party GPU, he doesn't tell me anything just reply me with-like-emoji.
I would like this to be ComputeModule(s) = ASi (GP)GPU(s)
But seeing as it has shown up in iOS code, maybe MR Goggles related...?
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A stripped down iOS would not have coverage for M-series elements. Only iPadOS and macOS have M-series SoC specific element coverage in them. It could be a 'blended' strip down that was bigger. However, most often a stipped down iOS looks like watchOS , tvOS (used in AppleTV and HomePod now) , Studio Display .
Could be two new Studio Display "modules" (as handing the audio and video is a 'compute' task for those devices. ). Yet another Studio Display 'fork'. ( The new mini-LED 27" display and perhaps the Studio Display getting a compute core refresh. ( can't imagine that Apple wants to be stuck on that older version of iOS forever. )
It is a huge head stretcher how this get hugely warped into a Mac Pro specific component.
This huge problem with reality here is that Apple really already has a 'stripped down' macOS which is the One-True-Boot system image that recovery now runs on. That already runs on top of M-series (don't need to expand iOS hardware coverage in the slightest). Even if that is too limited why could they not come up with a another stripped down macOS. Why is iOS 'easier to strip down' ??????????
What is far more likely is that iOS is a closer match to the Apple silicon package that this module runs on top of in the first place. Pretty good chance this is another "new Apple device" which typically take a fork off of iOS .
iOS -> iPadOS
iOS -> watchOS
iOS -> tvOS
Or perhaps how you DFU a AppleHeadset that has going sidewise from an iPhone/iPad .
A smaller chassis really doesn't 'buy' Apple all that much. Even more so if they are going to keep the price point about the same and keep around the rack enclosure. A shorter tower would only decouple from the rack enclosure and drive up expenses. And folks with with several PCI-e cards to insert would run into far more corner cases where things didn't work.
The M2-Pro is not viable as a 'plug-in' at all. It has now external I/O connection that are worth much. The M2 Max has not so far indicated anything better than the M2 Pro. Both as-is would be pretty lame "Add-in" GPU cards.
Have you ever in HPC and familiar with Xeon-phi?https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/hpc/top-5-xeon-phi-misconceptions-508/
What I realize is said iOS to be an uOS doppelganger.
Not same purpose, and macOS true Boot image its even too complex for a compute accelerator micro system .
And then iPadOS->iPad Pro ASi OS, actually absolutely nothing prevents apple to follow an fast track from iOS->cOS m2.
iOS has lot of sense since support both armv8 and Metal 3 with minimal overhead than macOS.
5 inch in height from the mp 7,1 are related exclusively for xeon cooling solution plus an small room for an HDD cage, it's 2023, neither needed.
An ASi m2 extreme likely to run below 400w full load, so it's cooling solution perfectly should align with the MPX module thermals, or TBC the ram configurations but an m2 extreme could reside in-between DIMM and being cooled in the same stream similar to DIMM inside mp7,2, either route the Mac Pro saves a bunch of volume needed to cool it's CPU complex (CPU+related support chips, which for the xeon W accounts for at least 40W)
A barebones Mac pro could arrive without compute modules only with M2 SOC complex (plugging upto 4 m2 Max one on top each other like dominoes). And likely include PCIe5 slots ala MPX fashion but almost mandatory being proprietary to avoid said compute module migrates into non apple workstations -unlikely but Apple's way -, or maybe said compute modules to add an extra management extension so it won't work on non apple systems neither prevent it's PCIe5 slot being used by an Isa peripheral as nvme banks specialized Io etc.
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IF what Apple is instead making is something more like an Intel big NUC system, where it's just a backplane with MPX+ slots, and the only processing is those compute modules, and you can mix & match compute modules with GPUs...
I'll just lay claim that I pointed to the outfield with my MacStation musings 2+ years ago
I think the Mac pro may follow an design similar to mp5,1 with main processor module, upgradeable linked thru some custom PCIe5 with the peripherals section which runs only PCIe peripherals form factor, on these slots could install a compute card but not to run it's macOS, only will run compute kernels which may have more in common with an iOS kernel than an cuda o Radeon kernel, as it could manage all m2 features in slave mode, it also allows Lower code overhead while running as such uOS kernels may be crafted to not require protected mode pagination which increase its performance, of course it's an very complex topic with lots of room for speculation.IF what Apple is instead making is something more like an Intel big NUC system, where it's just a backplane with MPX+ slots, and the only processing is those compute modules, and you can mix & match compute modules with GPUs...
I'll just lay claim that I pointed to the outfield with my MacStation musings 2+ years ago
If it's a flat hierarchy, with all processor modules being the same hardware, my prediction. If there's a special hierarchical command module that is different hardware from the others, your prediction.
I just considered the MPX compute modules all being the same, you add them as you like only first one run full macOS and the surrogated that stripped down iOS thus acting as compute accelerators, it makes sense, lets see what happens I buy your concept and doesn't conflict with the information I gathered, very interesting times ahead.If it's a flat hierarchy, with all processor modules being the same hardware, my prediction. If there's a special hierarchical command module that is different hardware from the others, your prediction.
Even, maybe Gurman not wrong at all about cancelled M2-Extremme (I dont think so), Apple may rely only on M2-Ultra configurations for this lego-like modular Mac Pro, but not what I've read, the M2- Extreme is alive and kicking ramping up assembly.
The "Building Blocks" for the ASi Mac Pro...
M3 Max SoC:
M3 GPU-specific SoC:
Symmetrical multi-die SoCs:
Asymmetrical multi-die SoCs:
ASi (GP)GPUs:
Maximum ASi Mac Pro CPU Edition:
Maximum ASi Mac Pro GPU Edition:
Available for pre-order after WWDC 2023 keynote presentation...!
Oh, and One More Thing; the all-new ASi Mac Pro Cube, available with the M3 Extreme or the M3 Extreme-C; we think you're going to love it...!
;^p
M3 Max SoC:
- N3B
- 16-core CPU (12P/4E)
- 44-core GPU
- 16-core Neural Engine
- 256GB LPDDR5X SDRAM (maximum)
M3 GPU-specific SoC:
- N3B
- 80-core GPU
- 16-core Neural Engine
- 256GB LPDDR5X SDRAM (maximum)
Symmetrical multi-die SoCs:
- Two regular dies for a M3 Ultra (32C/88G/32N)
- Four regular dies for a M3 Extreme (64C/176G/64N)
Asymmetrical multi-die SoCs:
- One regular die & one GPU-specific die for a M3 Ultra-C (16C/124G/32N)
- Two regular dies & two GPU-specific dies for a M3 Extreme-C (32C/248G/64N)
ASi (GP)GPUs:
- Two GPU-specific dies for a ComputeModule (160G/32N)
- Four GPU-specific dies for a ComputeModule Duo (320G/64N)
Maximum ASi Mac Pro CPU Edition:
- M3 Extreme SoC (N3B)
- 64-core CPU (48P/16E)
- 176-core GPU
- 64-core Neural Engine
- 1TB LPDDR5X SDRAM
- Two ComputeModule Duo add-in cards (640G/128N) with 1TB LPDDR5X SDRAM each
Maximum ASi Mac Pro GPU Edition:
- M3 Extreme-C SoC (N3B)
- 32-core CPU (24P/8E)
- 248-core GPU
- 64-core Neural Engine
- 1TB LPDDR5X SDRAM
- Two ComputeModule Duo add-in cards (640G/128N) with 1TB LPDDR5X SDRAM each
Available for pre-order after WWDC 2023 keynote presentation...!
Oh, and One More Thing; the all-new ASi Mac Pro Cube, available with the M3 Extreme or the M3 Extreme-C; we think you're going to love it...!
;^p
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I think it would make more sense to keep current Mac Pro design but have an upgradable Arm setup.
The entire system would internally function like the M3 SOC but it would be split up like a traditional desktop with slots that you can put more CPU Modules, more GPU Modules or more Neural Engine Modules all using the same interconnectivity they have on the system on a chip setup. The whole Mac would just be one big chip.
Of course all of these upgrade will be from Apple only (If the Mac Pro is going to be upgradable aren’t going to lose out on the revenue from selling upgrade parts) but this would be my ideal Apple Silicon Mac Pro. Personally I don’t need a 64 core neural engine but someone doing heavy machine learning tasks would.
This modular setup would mean you could have a very low CPU performant computer and invest heavily in a better GPU setup or you could prioritize the cpu or neural engine instead.
This would be a lot closer to what the Mac Pro originally was; a basic mid range computer that can be insanely upgraded toward high end performance for your specific workload
Small detail.. but based on the M2 Max, I thought we extrapolated that an M2 Ultra would peak at 192 GB ram.. so a 4x Module solution for a Mac Pro would top out at 768 GB Ram.. not the 1TB I have seen thrown around. Granted I guess that is an educated guess based on M2.. not M3.
The tips i received hint at Apple using std DDR5LP DIMM or SO-DIMM plus CXL2 it means server grade DDR5 ram in modules, as each m2 max should configure at least two from those Dimm it could grew to 8-16 ram slots for the main CPU complex (not the add-on compute accelerators), DDR5 depends on which flavor tops 48 to 512GB per module, assuming 48gb x 16 it could allow 768gb to upto 8TB but no, in case apple decides to support the interface for said 512gb modules the Mac Pro likely to include only 8 ram slots for 4TB.
Maybe apple may opt for a Lego-like system with MPX-like modules which are moneless mac-studio without storage and PSU mounted in an PCIe5 card the first one running macOS the extra surrogate compute cards loading a custom hugely stripped down iOS like xeon-phi uOS delivering efficiently and code-quick compute power to the master MPX-like module.
My doubts about that LEGO like Mac pro, is its system RAM would top at 384 GB (m2 extreme) or 192 if only M2-ULTRA is offered, it won't be nothing extraordinary.
But an compute accelerator with 192 or 384 GB of unified RAM could match AMD MI200 and Nvidia RTX ADA. using as just 2/3 of the energy and more flexible coding offering everything is available for an Mac studio : vídeo compression, hexagon integers processors NPU etc.
This from the news discussion, an intriguing match... Maybe 🤔??
Interesting times.
Edit, if Said compute module based on Mac studio it likely to offer m1max and m1pro from 16 to 128gb ram on board.
... Or m1-utra(r)/M2-Ultra (r)
*(r)= made of recycled m1-max M2-max with 1 or 2 defective cores disabled, ee fully capable.
According sources, "compute module" not a card, just an Mac studio, Mac mini etc running instead macOS an minimal iOS to be included on Mac OS as alternative boot, some kind of "thunderbolt hyper Target Mode", the Mac in target mode will provide headless all it's capabilities to it's master device.
Tipster also says both this new "hyper target mode" and the New Mac Pro to arrive next month.
No confirmation on GPU, but seems AMD eGPU also coming back or something dedicated eGPU , and the new Mac Pro to allow dGPU from multiple vendors.(not from sources just guessing)
So the LEGO-like Mac Pro again didn't live the hype.
.
.
.
Ok you can build it on Mac mini stacked...
Tipster also says both this new "hyper target mode" and the New Mac Pro to arrive next month.
No confirmation on GPU, but seems AMD eGPU also coming back or something dedicated eGPU , and the new Mac Pro to allow dGPU from multiple vendors.(not from sources just guessing)
So the LEGO-like Mac Pro again didn't live the hype.
.
.
.
Ok you can build it on Mac mini stacked...
Errrrrr. Target Disk mode already exists (without iOS).
Transfer files between a Mac with Apple silicon and another Mac
On a Mac with Apple silicon, use Mac Sharing to connect to another Mac and transfer files.
support.apple.com
iOS devices do not have any Thunderbolt abilities. iOS 'flys to the rescue' here with unique capabilities how ??????
Headless both iOS and macOS primarily use the same kernel but the macOS build has all the additions for the M-series SoCs. So iOS unique how here?
Did you even read that FAQ?
FAQ 1 the Phi cores are not 'additive' to the host set of cores. The Phi runs as a different computer and not unified into a completely transparently , coherent whole.
headless iOS doesn't do much more than headless macOS would. In fact, probably less on a M-series SoC.
uOS isn't so stripped down that you can't login to the system. Which one naturally does remote logins better iOS or macOS? One place where iOS has a 'lead' is in more pervasive and heavyweight sandboxing by default. Not sure what the big 'win' on HPC oriented apps would be in that context.
FAQ 2 The independence from the host carries all the way out the host operating system.
" ... However, the card can be booted into uOS from a Windows host! ..."
Which OS already has high speed ( ≥ 10GbE ) capabilities to connect to the host system via a virtual ethernet interface? NFS mounting? SMD mounting.
FAQ 3 " .. any programs you run are going to need to to bring any needed run time libraries over to the card or make them available over the network interface to the card. ..."
iOS or macOS ... which one has a /usr/local/ where can easily add libaries and fink/homebrew/etc software packages into ?
FAQ 4 Phi was set up to make it easier to port existing "cluster of microprocessors=running-Linux supercomputer" code onto. So if have HPC macOS apps which is easier port ? to iOS or to macOS?
FAQ 5 Phi won't last... from Intel perhaps. The upcoming AMD MI300 is more aligned with modern supercomputer node layout ( a not quite as hyper high CPU core count coupled to denser ALU GPGPU cores to really lean into the embarrsing parallel computational code with. )
The Mac Pro never was a supercomputer cluster in a box type of system. For a single user, it has been relatively high performance. But as a supercomputer node it has had a bumpy history.
Go back and read the FAQ. You are handwaving.
2023 don't need more than just one internal drive. That wasn't true in 2017 when Apple admitted it. If look at the W-2400/3400 being released by various vendors how many have just one M.2 slot on them. About zero. The notion that workstations need just one drives is even less true now than in 2017.
Go back and look at FAQ 2. The Phi card worked in both Linux and Windows host system. Apple limiting an add-in compute, independent cluster node that only physically fits inside of a Mac Pro is somewhat looney toons. That only guarantees that it is a highly limited production run. And shooting for 400W is also a bit nuts. If have adaptability to fit into a variety ( LInux , macOS , Windows) host systems then 75W is going to be much more portable and a much larger total addressable market than wallowing in some shallow 400W that doesn't even work in 99+% of the macOS ecosystem ( let alone the other ones dropping by the wayside).
Gooney-goo-goo .. the "Lego Mac Pro " surfaces from the "Dark Internet guy" archives again. A M2/M3 SoC complex that provisioned as solid two x16 PCI-e v4 (or better/wider ) backhaul backplane from the main logic board would be better than anything that tries to limbo down to just a MPX bay connection ( MPX connector and a single x16 slot).
What is grossly missing in the line up is a Mac with a respectable I/O backhaul backplane. Without that all this handwaving a magical compute cards is mainly just handwaving.
Already several months ago at this point rumored sightings of PCI-e slots in the next Mac Pro. HOw that is getting done should be part of the focus of accounting for what the new SoC does.
Things sometimes evolve, maybe now it's turn.
Err. iPad Pro ASi M1 (inherited iOS) includes thunderbolt 4 support.
Lower overhead than macOS.
So? It's subject for app tune-up, FYI davinci resolve already supports distributed multiprocessing on ASi .
Sandboxing is imperative in compute accelerator, You don't want to upload corrupt code into a device where it could run in kernel mode, as GPU kernel, but not actually a must to run aarch64 in kernel mode as iOS threading model it's less expensive than MacOS, just an interesting capability.
Or data pipes, that's where ASi unified memory shine's you can upload everything into ram and run both GPU & CPU code.
Not as bumpy as Windows, seems you forgot the "Big Mac" super computer cluster from Virginia Tech build on Power Mac, it benchmark top was about 29 TFlop (2009), barely better than an Mac Studio now.
Now is much easier to efficiently code targeting distributed multi-core simd system, swift, Rust, Go rendered it relatively trivial now (not trivial, just comparatively trivial compared with c/objC).
The M1 and M2 iPad Pros use iPadOS which split from iOS 13. While it is based on iOS it has a lot that iOS does not, like proper cursor support and thunderbolt drivers. iOS does not have such things. It would make more sense to run iPadOS as a lower overhead OS for some sort of advanced target mode
No, thunderbolt support just an kernel add-on, you don't need to move to an more complex and bigger OS when you don't need all that functionality, iOS officially "don't support" thunderbolt is an hardware thing (no iPhone yet includes USB4) not an kernel restrictions, both macOS, ipadOS and iOS shares same XNU kernel and Device Kit driver model, indeed both can run each other specific hardware as long provided with device drivers and boot image for the CPU architecture (yes you actually could run macOS at you iPad, iPhone (if an m1/m2 iPhone its released)).
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Rumor Recap: New Apple Products to Expect in March to April, Including Yellow iPhone 14
The calendar has turned to March and Apple is rumored to have at least three product announcements planned between now and the end of April,...
www.macrumors.com
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