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Boil

macrumors 68040
Oct 23, 2018
3,478
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Stargate Command
My safe MP 8,1 (or MP 14,xxx) bets:

ASi m2, Ulta and ultra² (or whatever extreme is named), no overclock evidenced, while discreet RAM support seems safe too.

Some discreet dGPU coming along, likely AMD, Apple may offer an compute-coprocessor MPX module with m2 max as slave surrogate devices (like an new Xeon phi), but don't discard expect it to beat an AMD rx7900xtx, but maybe you may put 4 or 5 of these into the Mac Pro with same effect.

Rumors say six PCIe slots; I would think Apple uses same slot spacing as current 7,1 chassis mobo, but removes the two "in-between" slots that a MPX module covers, leaving six slots...

Maximum of two MPX modules (so two AMD or ASi GPUs) per chassis...

Form factor, prototypes are recycling that stunning cheese grater look, but I doubt it represents the final product, as an ASi Mac Pro whichever solution set in place would remove the room required by the Intel xeon.

Nah, ASi SoC would go where Xeon is now...

Alternate is the SoC is on a card and the heat sink is the same as the MPX modules; but that would just "shuffle" the space around a bit...?

System power tdp won't exceed that of '7,1 or ~1200W, i believe to be sub KW.

Apple keeps 1.4kW PSU, "Extreme Power Mode" via software unlock...?

Arriving soon or at least before next wwdc.

The sooner the better, to put all the rumors and arguments aside...! ;^p
 
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NC12

macrumors regular
Nov 12, 2020
110
280
My safe MP 8,1 (or MP 14,xxx) bets:

ASi m2, Ulta and ultra² (or whatever extreme is named), no overclock evidenced, while discreet RAM support seems safe too.

Some discreet dGPU coming along, likely AMD, Apple may offer an compute-coprocessor MPX module with m2 max as slave surrogate devices (like an new Xeon phi), but don't discard expect it to beat an AMD rx7900xtx, but maybe you may put 4 or 5 of these into the Mac Pro with same effect.

Form factor, prototypes are recycling that stunning cheese grater look, but I doubt it represents the final product, as an ASi Mac Pro whichever solution set in place would remove the room required by the Intel xeon.

System power tdp won't exceed that of '7,1 or ~1200W, i believe to be sub KW.

Arriving soon or at least before next wwdc.
Wouldn’t ultra² be 4 Ultras instead of 2? Max² would be 2 Ultras
 

treehuggerpro

macrumors regular
Oct 21, 2021
111
124
Wouldn’t ultra² be 4 Ultras instead of 2? Max² would be 2 Ultras
No, because the Ultra is effectively 1 chip. The square of 1 or (1x1) = 1. You might pay double for the ultra², but you would get the exact same amount of processing power.
 
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Boil

macrumors 68040
Oct 23, 2018
3,478
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Stargate Command
M2 Max = M2 Max

M2 Max times two = M2 Ultra

M2 Ultra times two = M2 Extreme

M2 Extreme = four M2 Max

Let's leave the superscript numbers out of it...

;^p

The real question should be when do we see the M4 Extreme Mac Pro Cube, maybe WWDC 2025...?

M4 Extreme (A19/N3X)
64-core CPU (48P/16E)
420-core GPU (w/hardware ray-tracing)
128-core Neural Engine
1TB LPDDR6 ECC RAM
2.16TB/s UMA bandwidth
32TB SSD (4 @ 8TB NAND blades)
 
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NC12

macrumors regular
Nov 12, 2020
110
280
M2 Max = M2 Max

M2 Max times two = M2 Ultra

M2 Ultra times two = M2 Extreme

M2 Extreme = four M2 Max

Let's leave the superscript numbers out of it...

;^p

The real question should be when do we see the M4 Extreme Mac Pro Cube, maybe WWDC 2025...?

M4 Extreme (A19/N3X)
64-core CPU (48P/16E)
420-core GPU (w/hardware ray-tracing)
128-core Neural Engine
1TB LPDDR6 ECC RAM
2.16TB/s UMA bandwidth
32TB SSD (4 @ 8TB NAND blades)
Yeah that’s what I was trying to say as well.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,523
19,679
Obviously it's related to UltraFusion, but Apple uses to fill q bunch of patents ahead as cautionary proceed same way every technology corporation, but doesn't rules neither discard anything.

Sure, but these kind of patents give us rather specific device descriptions, which is why I think they are a good basis for speculations and rumours. Like, based on the patents we have a fairly clear idea how Apple raytracing is going to work, and what they are working on GPU and CPU wise.



If you have an idea on HPC electronics as soon you read flexible substrate you are aware it's not aimed as fabric interconnect, IMHO it's related to sub-components assembly (as extra usb4 ports, 10G Ethernet etc not on the same logic board as the main SOC).

Thanks for clearing that up! I indeed have no background in electronics and was just thinking aloud. Your explanation makes a lot of sense

FYI support for multiple GPU vendors never removed from Metal, all iOS and Mac OS app using metal distributed an Intermediate Bytecode compiled by Metal GPU drivers into whatever binary that GPU expects doesn't matter if that GPU it's Intel AMD or Apple, that evidence Apple never ever had intentions to burn they GPU ships. if you come here with evidence Metal removes that Intermediate Binary for optimized native binaries that doesn't need on the fly compilation by Metal GPU drivers, i concede you apple has no intention to allow 3rd vendors inside a Mac, which crazy IMHO and dangerous as it corners Apple in an field where they are not even close to the 2nd most important GPU provider, and actually moreless tied with Intel ARC.

They still sell and have to support Intel machines with non-Apple GPUs, so why would they remove Metal support for these devices? But in the recent years those GPUs were pretty much an afterthought. Apple doesn't support AMDs RT instructions for example (probably because AMD hardware requires a specific node format and Apple couldn't be bothered to develop a BVH structure just for that backend). Metal AMD performance in Blender is also pretty much terrible (AMD's own HIP is roughly 40-50% faster, and that's without hardware RT from what I understand).


What's interesting though is that Apple does ship mesh shaders for all GPUs, although I still haven't looked in detail at the performance of these solutions on different hardware.
 

stevebatter

macrumors newbie
Jan 4, 2008
19
51
There's an announcement programmed at Apple for next week, fingers 🤞 crossed.
Apologies, I sometimes read these sorts of messages the wrong way :)

Do you mean that you know that there is going to be an announcement and fingers crossed the new MP will be it, or do you mean fingers crossed that there's an announcement programmed for new week? Many thanks
 
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Mago

macrumors 68030
Aug 16, 2011
2,789
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Beyond the Thunderdome
WWDC announcement, don't precludes new hardware release pre-keynote, given this year WWDC to be quite busy on new software and Device (XR glasses) should be logical new releases on expected Hardware at previous virtual keynotes as was when the Mac studio was launched.
 

stevebatter

macrumors newbie
Jan 4, 2008
19
51
Yeah, but seems it's just for announcing WWDC'2023 Official dates, so 😏

Sorry I often miss punctuation and quite often I just write like Yoda, it's an condition.
That's no problem at all, just thought I would check as I thought you may have had a scoop on the MP announcement :)
 

PineappleCake

Suspended
Feb 18, 2023
96
252

Autodesk is ramping up. Fusion 360 is coming in 2023 summer. Just in time for Mac Pro ARM.

November 23, 2022 Update

As you know we have been working closely with Apple on native support for Fusion 360 on Apple Silicon Chipsets (i.e. M1 & M2). We are pleased to announce that we expect to achieve full native support by Summer of 2023.

As we have explained in this thread, the delay is a result of the need to ensure 100% compatibility between components from over 100 3rd party vendors including Autodesk.

If you want to access this functionality as soon as possible, please consider joining the Insider Program. If you have any questions on the topic please contact @Rajkumar.ilanchelian.


source: https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusi...le-arm-based-m1-chipsets/td-p/9876850/page/20
 
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Macintosh IIcx

macrumors 6502a
Jul 3, 2014
629
615
Denmark
WWDC announcement, don't precludes new hardware release pre-keynote, given this year WWDC to be quite busy on new software and Device (XR glasses) should be logical new releases on expected Hardware at previous virtual keynotes as was when the Mac studio was launched.
So we get the new Mac Pro announcement at WWDC as expected all along, got it. ;)
 

Mago

macrumors 68030
Aug 16, 2011
2,789
912
Beyond the Thunderdome
So we get the new Mac Pro announcement at WWDC as expected all along, got it. ;)
According Chinese bloggers (quoting Macworld article timeframe) it should arrive on May 6.

My guess, next week along WWDC announcement the ASi Mac Pro is revealed with shipping by April's final week.
 
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kiiso

macrumors member
May 3, 2011
48
83
My thinking:
  • iPhone is top1 priority for Apple –> 3nm capacity is reserved for iPhone (September)
  • M3 will use 3nm –> M3 will be announced after the iPhone
  • First M3 Mac will be MacBook Air 13" and new MacBook Air 15" (Chistmas season)
  • Apple will not announce high-end and low-end M3 at the same time –> M3 Mac Pro is 2024/2025 product.
  • "2 year transition promise" and "Mac Pro is for another day" statement at the Mac Studio announcement –> First gen Asi Mac Pro will be announced this year.
  • If Mac Pro is announced this year, then it must use M2.
  • WWDC is perfect opportunity to announce XR Glasses and a Mac Pro with compute modules is a perfect tool for high-end AR-VR content creation. This is a complete solution-package, wich is something that the Apple Marketing Team loves.
Quod erat demonstrandum: WWDC M2 Ulra Mac Pro announcement.

Thanks for your attention.:cool:
 
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theluggage

macrumors G3
Jul 29, 2011
8,015
8,451
"2 year transition promise" and "Mac Pro is for another day" statement at the Mac Studio announcement –> First gen Asi Mac Pro will be announced this year.
There was never a "promise" - it was "Apple plans to ship the first Mac with Apple silicon by the end of the year and complete the transition in about two years" - subsequent events have given Apple plenty of excuses to change that plan (pray that they do not change it further...). "Mac Pro is for another day" promises even less and just sounds like "kicking the can (of worms) down the road."

That said, if Apple doesn't say something about the Mac Pro at/before WWDC then I'm not sure who is going to be hanging around to buy one - its not going to be a casual purchase and "serious callers" need some sort of certainty so that they can plan and budget for future projects, know that they can replace broken equipment or kit out new staff, plus any company on a 3-4 year lease cycle, or claiming equipment against tax, will be coming up on their "accounting window" for getting new kit. Apple now has a shameful track record in launching new "pro" Macs that turn out to be one-and-done products and then heading off on a different tangent with the replacement.

and a Mac Pro with compute modules is a perfect tool for high-end AR-VR content creation.

Maybe, but ultimately, this new AR content has to be delivered by something about the size of an iPhone supported by a mobile internet connection, so the bulk of development could be self-hosted on the delivery device (that has been true of personal computers for decades - pretty much since floppy drives became affordable). Of course, there are exceptions, like pre-rendering content or training ML systems which has been one target market for Mac Pro - but, going forward, it makes a lot more sense to do that using shared hardware in the cloud especially if (a) that is where your raw data lives (b) if you are working on large a development team, either scattered around a building or even working remotely, so all the data and code needs to be shared (the cloud compute server almost certainly has faster access to the data server than your desktop does).

I'd suggest that in 2023 a "perfect tool" for high-end AR-VR content creation would be a MacBook Air, an AR headset, a fast internet connection and an account with an Apple developer cloud service that can supply whatever computing horsepower you need "on demand" and handles all the DevOps/Continuous Integration stuff that enables you to work with a team of developers all working remotely.

(Apple gave up eating their own dog food for their online services backend when they canned the XServe and MacOS Server - and while the M-series puts them way ahead of the game for ARM-based personal computers, Ampere, AWS etc. probably have the jump on them for server-class/high-density computing hardware).

I think there's a lot of people in this thread asking for Henry Ford's (probably apocryphal) "faster horses" - and that's a reasonable request if you have an existing, paying workflow that can't turn on a dime (which is why Apple may have to come up with a Mac Pro replacement anyway) - but I'm not sure its a growth area and certainly not the way forward for a shiny new AR platform. Eschewing the "faster horses" route is one thing Apple have been fairly consistent about.
 
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Mago

macrumors 68030
Aug 16, 2011
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Beyond the Thunderdome
this new AR content has to be delivered by something about the size of an
I think that "Compute module" to be an M1 max/ultra based device not needly iphone sized Mac studio sized and tethered by uwb 60ghz wireless-thubderbolt-like Link, although said compute module may reference to an new" target mode" for Mac and ipads where it surrogates all the device compute capabilities to it's master system, it's something demoed.
 

Kimmo

macrumors 6502
Jul 30, 2011
266
318
Next announcement ASi Mac Pro, sometime in April likely before Easter April 11 or 18.
Mago, we're going to hold you to this.

If you're right, we'll celebrate you as a true hero.

toronto-blue-jays-walk-off.gif


If you're wrong, we will taunt you, maybe more than once. ;)

pthththt.gif
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
Next announcement ASi Mac Pro, sometime in April likely before Easter April 11 or 18.

The 18th isn’t even before Eastern Orthodox Easter . Neither one of those dates are before the more mainstream Easter .

 

Kimmo

macrumors 6502
Jul 30, 2011
266
318
Next announcement ASi Mac Pro, sometime in April likely before Easter the end of Ramadan on April 21. Definitely April 11 or 18, no later than that, for sure.
Mago, I fixed that for you. :cool:
 

Mago

macrumors 68030
Aug 16, 2011
2,789
912
Beyond the Thunderdome
Mago, I fixed that for you. :cool:
Thanks, I dont think Apple really cares on religious feasts but in the West non-orthodox world often Easter celebrations also implies short leaves as holidays or just leaves for based employees, thus rarely big products launches are announced at easter, chinese new year, etc, depend on culture.

I think April 11 or 18 are the dates with more chances for Apple updated product Announcements, but shipments likely to start sometimes at May when most religious feast dont interfere.

edited my post :

Next announcement ASi Mac Pro, sometime in April likely before AFTER Easter April 11 or 18.
 
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Mac Kiwi

macrumors 6502a
Apr 29, 2003
520
10
New Zealand
Given it’s probably June that we’ll now see or hear about the new MacPro, does that increase the likelihood it will use the M3 chip or is it still far too early for that to happen?
 
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