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I am not saying everyone who buys a Mini is making excuses. In fact I will go so far as to say the majority are not doing so.
And that majority are the people who should be buying the Mini.

The minority that are "making excuses" should have bought something else.

Int he end, the only thing that matters is that I LOVE my Mac Mini :)
 
And that majority are the people who should be buying the Mini.

The minority that are "making excuses" should have bought something else.

Int he end, the only thing that matters is that I LOVE my Mac Mini :)
Unfortunately Apple doesn't offer something else.
 
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The Mini is a fine computer (I own two 2012 models) and the 2018 model is a great upgrade. But there are too many people who are shoehorning it into their workflow and extolling its virtues for jobs it's not the best fit for. They're settling for it because Apple doesn't offer an alternative for them.

Take the four TB3 ports. I routinely hear how great it is the Mini has four of these ports. Meanwhile the advocates ignore the need for the higher number of them is directly related to the lack of internal expansion (which would lessen the need for a higher number of them). Do I miss having TB3 ports on my Mini? No, because I can easily upgrade the internal storage. Do I miss having them on my Z440 system? Not at all, I can change / add storage per my requirements. Or I can change / add GPUs per my requirements. All done internally and without need for external solutions. The higher number of TB3 ports is a solution to an artificial "problem" Apple created.

Well, beyond the years of officially sanctioned upgradable RAM the mini as a product was never really meant for internal upgrades. It was always meant for more external upgrades (again, except RAM) and the addition of four TB3 ports gives users more choices for those upgrades.
 
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Well, beyond the years of officially sanctioned upgradable RAM the mini as a product was never really meant for internal upgrades. It was always meant for more external upgrades (again, except RAM) and the addition of four TB3 ports gives users more choices for those upgrades.
So do PCIe expansion slots. I'm still puzzled why anyone would buy, assuming there are alternatives, a SFF system and then negate its benefit by piling on a bunch of external stuff which could be contained in a small to medium sized tower.
 
A GPU that requires an enclosure that costs a couple/few hundred dollars and whose purpose is to make up for a poorly designed computer. A "mini" is not "mini" when you have to attach external hard drives, a GPU, etc (plus you get the bonus of having to spend twice as much as a PC).

I can get behind using an eGPU with a laptop, so you can have a decent GPU when you're at your desk, but having to use one with a desktop machine is completely insane and idiotic.
Is it? Seems to me it's a way to decouple a high-end GPU from the base unit. Take me for example. I do some light video and audio editing from time to time, and I do a lot of Adobe CS work. Any gaming I do, I do on a console. So I do not need a beefy GPU at all, it would be a waste of my money when a more or less base model Mini with a decent amount of RAM would work just fine for my current tasks.

But let's say next year I take on a bunch of video work and I find my Mini's integrated graphics aren't up to the task. Do I buy and spend time configuring a whole new machine? No. I take my existing Mini and I plug an eGPU into it, just as easily as I'd plug in a Thunderbolt SSD for fast storage. Boom. My little base-model Mac is now a whole lot faster for this purpose. Hell, maybe I work in an office and we swap said eGPU around depending on who's got video to render that week. Now, tell me how that's insane or idiotic.
 
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So do PCIe expansion slots. I'm still puzzled why anyone would buy, assuming there are alternatives, a SFF system and then negate its benefit by piling on a bunch of external stuff which could be contained in a small to medium sized tower.

The mini was never envisioned as a machine that would have PCIe slots. I don’t understand why the addition of TB3 ports is a negative just because the machine could have also been made larger to accommodate PCIe slots, which is obviously not Apple’s strategy with the mini.

Just because one doesn’t understand why someone would do something different doesn’t mean that other use cases/needs are any less valid.

For me, I like high speed external expansion with a small computer like the mini. I can share my drives and eGPU between my computers, upgrade most everything just as easily as I could if the upgrades were internal, and move the various parts to different areas of my desk (I’d rather have a mini and eGPU to manage than a huge tower). I can also easily transport everything, which has been helpful for me since I move cities/countries a lot.
 
Is it? Seems to me it's a way to decouple a high-end GPU from the base unit. Take me for example. I do some light video and audio editing from time to time, and I do a lot of Adobe CS work. Any gaming I do, I do on a console. So I do not need a beefy GPU at all, it would be a waste of my money to spec it in my Mac, and a more or less base model Mini with a decent amount of RAM would work just fine for my current tasks.

But let's say next year I take on a bunch of video work and I find my Mini's integrated graphics aren't up to the task. Do I buy and spend time configuring a whole new machine? No. I take my existing Mini and I plug an eEPU into it, just as easily as I'd plug in a Thunderbolt SSD for fast storage. Boom. My little base-model Mac is now a whole lot faster for this purpose. Hell, maybe I work in an office and we swap said eGPU around depending on who's got video to render that week. Now, tell me how that's insane or idiotic.
I can do the same thing with my Z440 system. If I need more capability than the Nvidia NVS-315 GPU offers I can many GPUs including some very high end cards. All the while consuming the same space as the existing system currently does.
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The mini was never envisioned as a machine that would have PCIe slots. I don’t understand why the addition of TB3 ports is a negative just because the machine could have also been made larger to accommodate PCIe slots, which is obviously not Apple’s strategy with the mini.

Just because one doesn’t understand why someone would do something different doesn’t mean that other use cases/needs are any less valid.

For me, I like high speed external expansion with a small computer like the mini. I can share my drives and eGPU between my computers, upgrade most everything just as easily as I could if the upgrades were internal, and move the various parts to different areas of my desk (I’d rather have a mini and eGPU to manage than a huge tower). I can also easily transport everything, which has been helpful for me since I move cities/countries a lot.
My argument isn't with the Mini or its TB3 ports. My argument is that Apple doesn't offer an alternative which doesn't require expand / upgradability via external connectivity. A small to medium sized tower would be ideal for such upgrades. But Apple doesn't offer one, instead forcing users to use external ports for such expansion / upgrades.
 
They will eventually, and it will be the next Mac Pro. However I guess after all this time it still isn't ready yet. Hopefully when they do announce/release it, it will be a truly modular/upgradeable system that we want out of the machine, and not use a bunch of proprietary crap.

If you can't wait any longer, than I guess your only option is to defect to a PC. Complaining about it in the Mac Mini forums certainly isn't the answer you're looking for.
 
If you can't wait any longer, than I guess your only option is to defect to a PC. Complaining about it in the Mac Mini forums certainly isn't the answer you're looking for.
I am not complaining in the Mac Mini forums. I am a fan of the Mini. I did not start this thread. I am merely commenting within it.
 
I am not complaining in the Mac Mini forums. I am a fan of the Mini. I did not start this thread. I am merely commenting within it.
The same comment over and over and over again in almost every thread about the Mini you participate in, about the lack of Apple's offering of an expandable system. We get it.
 
Great! I guess you won't be reading or commenting further on any of my future posts.
No, some of your posts are actually informative and I enjoy the content they add to the discussion. Thus I will not be one of those "sensitive" types to block all your interactions. However, when you routinely beat the proverbial dead horse, I guess have to just sigh and shake my head... as well as remind you that you have mentioned this same thing over, and over, and over again in an attempt to try and remind you of your unnecessary repetitiveness.
 
I am not saying everyone who buys a Mini is making excuses. In fact I will go so far as to say the majority are not doing so.

As for it solving your problems all three sound like the same "problem": You did not want to use a Windows PC any longer. That appears to be more of a preference than a problem which needs resolution. I do find it odd that you're wanting to move away from Windows but are customizing the Mac to be more Windows like.
The customizations were mainly keyboard related. I have 30 years of widows muscle memory. Kind of hard to undo. The other bigger problem was needing to upgrade my old drives. This forced the issue so I don’t have to worry about older failing drives.
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I can do the same thing with my Z440 system. If I need more capability than the Nvidia NVS-315 GPU offers I can many GPUs including some very high end cards. All the while consuming the same space as the existing system currently does.
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My argument isn't with the Mini or its TB3 ports. My argument is that Apple doesn't offer an alternative which doesn't require expand / upgradability via external connectivity. A small to medium sized tower would be ideal for such upgrades. But Apple doesn't offer one, instead forcing users to use external ports for such expansion / upgrades.
My mac mini is sitting right next to my 2011 tower that I built with 6 hard drives, 1 ssd, 16gb memory and video card to drive a 4k monitor. It has usb ports coming out of it’s ears. The thing is, the mini did a pretty slick job of replacing my entire rig. Even with the keyboard switcher, usb powered hub, and 2 external drives, it is considerably smaller than the tower.
 
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I can do the same thing with my Z440 system. If I need more capability than the Nvidia NVS-315 GPU offers I can many GPUs including some very high end cards. All the while consuming the same space as the existing system currently does.
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My argument isn't with the Mini or its TB3 ports. My argument is that Apple doesn't offer an alternative which doesn't require expand / upgradability via external connectivity. A small to medium sized tower would be ideal for such upgrades. But Apple doesn't offer one, instead forcing users to use external ports for such expansion / upgrades.

Okay, I see your point. I wish Apple had an alternative as well but also something small so I can transport it easily. But they don’t so the mini is the best option for me. I don’t really view this as forcing me to use external devices. I’m the one who wants to use macOS and I will make best use of the Macs that are available.

By the way is that the HP Z440 you are talking about? That’s thing is massive. It takes up more space than my mini, eGPU, and external drives combined. Glad I don’t need a workstation like that for personal use.
 
No, some of your posts are actually informative and I enjoy the content they add to the discussion. Thus I will not be one of those "sensitive" types to block all your interactions. However, when you routinely beat the proverbial dead horse, I guess have to just sigh and shake my head... as well as remind you that you have mentioned this same thing over, and over, and over again in an attempt to try and remind you of your unnecessary repetitiveness.
This is a discussion about an NUC versus the Mac Mini. When the Mac users respond with "But it doesn't have four TB3 ports" I'm going to respond as to why having four TB3 ports is not an issue for these users. I feel that is more than appropriate discussion given the Mini advocates response. The reason you keep seeing this response from me is because we continue to hear about these four TB3 ports and how they make the Mini so functional. Thus you hear my counter point repeatedly.
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The customizations were mainly keyboard related. I have 30 years of widows muscle memory. Kind of hard to undo. The other bigger problem was needing to upgrade my old drives. This forced the issue so I don’t have to worry about older failing drives.

I'm puzzled how this was resolved by buying a Mini. New drives will work with PCs too.

NOTE: I am not questioning your decision to buy a Mini.

My mac mini is sitting right next to my 2011 tower that I built with 6 hard drives, 1 ssd, 16gb memory and video card to drive a 4k monitor. It has usb ports coming out of it’s ears. The thing is, the mini did a pretty slick job of replacing my entire rig. Even with the keyboard switcher, usb powered hub, and 2 external drives, it is considerably smaller than the tower.
I can't speak to your exact needs so you may be an edge case where no matter what case you would purchase it may be insufficient to house all your external devices. Yours is not the use case I am discussing.
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Okay, I see your point. I wish Apple had an alternative as well but also something small so I can transport it easily. But they don’t so the mini is the best option for me. I don’t really view this as forcing me to use external devices. I’m the one who wants to use macOS and I will make best use of the Macs that are available.

By the way is that the HP Z440 you are talking about? That’s thing is massive. It takes up more space than my mini, eGPU, and external drives combined. Glad I don’t need a workstation like that for personal use.
Yes, it's a Z440 and I don't consider it massive. Its dimensions are: 6.65 (w) x 17.5 (d) x 17 (h) inches and is comparable in size to the PowerMac G3/G4: 8.9 (w) x 18.4 (d) x 17 (h) inches. I don't recall anyone stating the PowerMac G3/G4 systems as being massive.

But let's consider a Mini with the Black Magic (BMG) eGPU (because that's the one Apple is advocating). The Mini has dimensions of: 7.7 (w) x 7.7 (d) x 1.4 (h) inches. The BMG has dimensions of 6.96 (w) x 6.96 (d) x 11.59 (h) inches. The Z440 system consumes ~116 sq inches of desk space whereas the Mini and BMG consume ~107 sq inches giving a total savings of 9 sq inches. This assumes you've pushed the two of them right up next to one another and there is no wasted space. I guess you could stack them on top of one another but I that's not how I would configure them. So you really haven't saved much space and you have additional cabling, power, and, in some cases, lower performance. This example uses only one external device. What if I need to add storage?
 
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I'm puzzled how this was resolved by buying a Mini. New drives will work with PCs too.
NOTE: I am not questioning your decision to buy a Mini.

I can't speak to your exact needs so you may be an edge case where no matter what case you would purchase it may be insufficient to house all your external devices. Yours is not the use case I am discussing.
Because today you can buy a 10tb external red drive for $180, I no longer have to buy a big case to hang 6 drives of 4tb each on them. I have 2 tb less but because it is one big drive, I don't have to split my files across 3 drives (with 3 that are synced with syncbackpro). Plus I get better backups that are easier to access with Time Machine. That is why I can now go tower-less. Big drives.

I also have a NUC i7 about 2 feet away on the wall. It is a bit loud and it runs windows for my security system. I prefer the size and quietness of the Mac mini over all 3 options (big tower, NUC, Mac mini). I think if you are inclined to like the macOS, the mini is a great option, especially if you have your own monitor as most people with a tower or NUC will have.
 
Because today you can buy a 10tb external red drive for $180, I no longer have to buy a big case to hang 6 drives of 4tb each on them. I have 2 tb less but because it is one big drive, I don't have to split my files across 3 drives (with 3 that are synced with syncbackpro). Plus I get better backups that are easier to access with Time Machine. That is why I can now go tower-less. Big drives.
I can use that same drive in my Z440 system and I can do so internally. Having said that I fail to see where the Mini is unique in this situation. You seem to be saying "Because I can buy a 10TB drive I no longer have to use multiple 4TB drives". While true I fail to see what this has to do with the Mini.

I also have a NUC i7 about 2 feet away on the wall. It is a bit loud and it runs windows for my security system. I prefer the size and quietness of the Mac mini over all 3 options (big tower, NUC, Mac mini). I think if you are inclined to like the macOS, the mini is a great option, especially if you have your own monitor as most people with a tower or NUC will have.
I swear I must be the only person who has quiet systems (both PCs and Macs). As for size the Mini is great...until you start expanding it at which point size goes out the window.
 
I can use that same drive in my Z440 system and I can do so internally. Having said that I fail to see where the Mini is unique in this situation. You seem to be saying "Because I can buy a 10TB drive I no longer have to use multiple 4TB drives". While true I fail to see what this has to do with the Mini.


I swear I must be the only person who has quiet systems (both PCs and Macs). As for size the Mini is great...until you start expanding it at which point size goes out the window.
Are you running macOS on your Z400 (whatever that is)? Because if a person (not you) prefers macOS and doesn't mind that the mini is slower than a NUC, a mini is likely going to suit that person's needs. That is my point. It isn't all about you. My other point is that if you have a need for lots of drive space, you no longer need a tower, you have other options such as external drives and raid boxes.
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As for size the Mini is great...until you start expanding it at which point size goes out the window.
I have 2 external drives, a 7 port usb hub and keyboard/mouse switcher. The Mac mini is still considerably smaller. By a lot. See attached picture.
 

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Are you running macOS on your Z400 (whatever that is)? Because if a person (not you) prefers macOS and doesn't mind that the mini is slower than a NUC, a mini is likely going to suit that person's needs.That is my point. It isn't all about you.

I know what your point is. My point is the small form factor of the Mini is negated when you start expanding it. The space consumed by external devices, cabling, and power considerations begins to erode its primary benefit. If that's the case wouldn't it be better for Apple to offer a small to medium sized tower for those who need more instead of forcing them to buy a SFF systems and have to add everything externally?

No, the Z440 does not run macOS. I'm using it as an example of what Apple could offer.

My other point is that if you have a need for lots of drive space, you no longer need a tower, you have other options such as external drives and raid boxes.
But wouldn't it be nice if you could accommodate a couple of drives internally?

I have 2 external drives, a 7 port usb hub and keyboard/mouse switcher. The Mac mini is still considerably smaller. By a lot. See attached picture.
My Z440 could accommodate those two drives along with an SSD internally. No need for USB hubs (it has 4 USB 3.0 Gen 1 ports on the front, 4 USB 3.0 Gen 1 and 2 USB 2.0 ports on the rear, it also has one of each internally). While the volume of space of your solution may be smaller than that of the Z440 it certainly doesn't appear as if it's saving you any desk space with all the external devices you have connected to it. Meanwhile my Z440 would be self contained under such a configuration. If the physical size of the Z440 is too much for you perhaps a Z420 SFF would be more fitting. It's smaller than the Z440 but could accommodate everything you've outlined thus far.
 
But wouldn't it be nice if you could accommodate a couple of drives internally?

I am sure there are plenty of people that would like a tower, but equally, there are plenty that doesn't need or want one, you could accept that without responding to everything with 'but my Z440'.

I want a Mac Mini, I also want an eGPU and if I need more storage I will add it externally. I am happy with that as are many others for various reasons that go beyond just having everything in a tower.
 
I am sure there are plenty of people that would like a tower, but equally, there are plenty that doesn't need or want one, you could accept that without responding to everything with 'but my Z440'.
Offering a tower does not preclude you from having a Mini. As for the Z440 I am not attempting to push the Z440 itself but rather the form factor. To show what is possible. Feel free to ignore my posts if you are tired of reading about it.

I want a Mac Mini, I also want an eGPU and if I need more storage I will add it externally. I am happy with that as are many others for various reasons that go beyond just having everything in a tower.
Mac Mini + eGPU consumes about as much space as my Z440 system and, in some benchmarks, provides lower performance than the same card installed in a 10 year old Mac Pro. Given this I see little benefit to using a Mini + eGPU. Perhaps if you want to move the eGPU between different systems but other than that I am hard pressed to find a reason. Perhaps you can offer some additional ones?
 
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