6 Months Since Aperture (& iPhotos) Death

[skaeight]

That is what it reads like. So either a)the write has not found the "always open images with a histogram' option or b) that option does not yet exist in Photos.

But, if there IS a histogram that can be turned on, then it is nearly trivial to add a checkbox so that it is always come up with the edit image.

That said, same reviewer says there are no brushed effects while others have said there are, but that 'you can only alter size but not intensity.'

No one has refuted him over on that thread yet that the histogram needs to be manually enabled every time a photo is edited. Is there anyone here that has access to Photos now that can confirm whether the histogram needs to be turned on for each photo?

If this is in fact the case it is not trivial to check the box to have it enabled for each photo you edit. That is going to get old quickly. This along with the loss of presets, and the ability to stamp images removes any ability to automate processing of lots of images.

This is my opinion, but I do see not having the ability to enable a histogram to show all the time as something that indicates that Apple is not intending pro users to use this application. Middle finger or not, the fact remains they could have made the histogram as an option to be enabled, but they chose not to do this, I can only assume for aesthetic reasons. I completely support the idea of not having this on by default to keep it simple for casual users, but this absolutely should be something that can be permenantly turned on if desired.

That Chris Breen article is great. He's very straightforward, and I appreciate his advice, which is essentially to get out now before you create more work for yourself in the future when you inevitably do migrate. He has access to Apple so I would take his advice to heart. Other reviewers hinted that Photos isn't yet an Aperture replacement, so it seems like Apple is trying to get the message out that Photos isn't for people who fully used Apertures capabilities. He's the first that I've seen that has been this direct.

He said this after the two paragraphs that were already quoted in this thread:

Most of the pro shooters I know moved to Adobe Lightroom years ago. And unlike most of Adobe’s pro apps, it can be purchased with a perpetual license (versus requiring a Creative Cloud subscription). The latest version includes a plug-in for importing Aperture and iPhoto libraries. The migration is hardly seamless—you can’t import your adjustments, for example—but, as I suggested, doing it now will save you some work should you wait a year to take this step. If Lightroom doesn’t rock your boat, Capture One is another option you might consider.

I don't think he could be anymore clear, if your looking for an upgrade to Aperture don't wait around any longer, it ain't coming, move to one of these...

You're right that Apple isn't a hardware company. They sell the whole experience, top to bottom. For the most part things just work with their solutions. However they have decided to narrow their focus a little bit recently and are making it clear they are out of the enthusiast / pro photographer market.

With this move I honestly question the long term future of Logic and Final Cut as well. They are focusing on who is bringing in the money for them, and that is consumers, period.

 

[VirtualRain]

I don't think he could be anymore clear, if your looking for an upgrade to Aperture don't wait around any longer, it ain't coming, move to one of these...

You're right that Apple isn't a hardware company. They sell the whole experience, top to bottom. For the most part things just work with their solutions. However they have decided to narrow their focus a little bit recently and are making it clear they are out of the enthusiast / pro photographer market.

With this move I honestly question the long term future of Logic and Final Cut as well. They are focusing on who is bringing in the money for them, and that is consumers, period.

Agreed. If you haven't already, it's time to move on. I've been on Aperture longer than I ought to. There's lots of great software out there.

I also share your concern over FCP and Logic. I think the demise of Aperture may foretell the future of those two apps as well.

 

[skaeight]

Agreed. If you haven't already, it's time to move on. I've been on Aperture longer than I ought to. There's lots of great software out there.

I also share your concern over FCP and Logic. I think the demise of Aperture may foretell the future of those two apps as well.

Ya it seems like those two updates were already in the pipeline before the decision to abandon the pro market so they got released and FCPX has improved due to an overwhelming outrage and the fact they had an updated Mac Pro coming out. I'll be shocked if we ever see FCPX 11.

Fortunately I am very much at a beginner level in video and it will take me quite a while until I outgrow iMovie. When I do though I'm probably going to look to upgrade to a full CC plan so that I can use Premiere instead of buying FCPX (but by then I'd imagine we'll have some sense of where Apple is going with FCP and I'll be able to make a better decision).

What of the Mac Pro too? Why does this machine exist right now? The RiMac is the best machine they offer at the moment. We'll see what happens with that later this year, whether it's reved to support a theoretical 5k monitor that may be released at some point.

 

[v3rlon]

If you believe that then your work here is done. Move on to Lightroom and be happy. I am not trying to be rude. That is just the way it is. The guy you are agreeing with said his circle bailed on Apple years ago in their switch to LR. If you truly believe LR is the future, no sense wasting life deliberating over it. You can move on and be happy. The only reason to hang out here is if you do not truly believe it and are hoping for some form of validation, and neither of you seem the type (based on forum posts, for whatever that is worth).

I look at what happened to FCP X and Logic and still hold on to hope for Photos. I wish to remain Adobe free until the "rent the software" urge gets out of their system, so if I move to something else, it will probably not be Lightroom.

 

[VirtualRain]

If you believe that then your work here is done. Move on to Lightroom and be happy. I am not trying to be rude. That is just the way it is. The guy you are agreeing with said his circle bailed on Apple years ago in their switch to LR. If you truly believe LR is the future, no sense wasting life deliberating over it. You can move on and be happy. The only reason to hang out here is if you do not truly believe it and are hoping for some form of validation, and neither of you seem the type (based on forum posts, for whatever that is worth).

I look at what happened to FCP X and Logic and still hold on to hope for Photos. I wish to remain Adobe free until the "rent the software" urge gets out of their system, so if I move to something else, it will probably not be Lightroom.

I don't know if this was intended for me (quoting would help) but I've been holding out a lot of hope for Photos since the announcement last summer to the point where I was staunchly defending it against the nay-sayers. I've just now realized that was a bit foolish... Apple has let me down... Let us all down. Photos is much worse than I had hoped.

Now, I'm no fan of Lightroom. You've probably seen my threads on this forum looking at a variety of different RAW converters. In doing some analysis of what's out there, I've come to realize that Aperture was good, but not great, and that even if Apple has ambitions to grow Photos into a pro tool over time, at the rate they are going it will be years and may never catch up to what's out there. Apple is more interested in creating ecosystem benefits than in creating the best pro photo editing tool... At least during this point in their life. Unfortunately, they are under extreme pressure to grow revenues and that means selling more Macs to the hundreds of millions of iPhone owners in the short term.

I'm currently favouring Capture One Pro as an Aperture replacement. It's very familiar to Aperture, can produce better images, and performs fairly well on a Mac. I really encourage others here to consider it.

 

[skaeight]

If you believe that then your work here is done. Move on to Lightroom and be happy. I am not trying to be rude. That is just the way it is. The guy you are agreeing with said his circle bailed on Apple years ago in their switch to LR. If you truly believe LR is the future, no sense wasting life deliberating over it. You can move on and be happy. The only reason to hang out here is if you do not truly believe it and are hoping for some form of validation, and neither of you seem the type (based on forum posts, for whatever that is worth).

I look at what happened to FCP X and Logic and still hold on to hope for Photos. I wish to remain Adobe free until the "rent the software" urge gets out of their system, so if I move to something else, it will probably not be Lightroom.

I have moved on to LR, I actually bought my cc subscription last night. I think I'm allowed a mourning period for the loss of Aperture though. I do still really love that application, but again it's time to move on. If I had my choice Apple would have released Aperture 4 years ago and I wouldn't have spent the last month on this. I was also hopeful I could finagle Photos to work for me, but the more I read about it the more I realized it wasn't going to happen.

You're free to do what you want, but I also just wanted to relay what I've found in an effort to help people make their decisin about where to go from here.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

Ya it seems like those two updates were already in the pipeline before the decision to abandon the pro market so they got released and FCPX has improved due to an overwhelming outrage and the fact they had an updated Mac Pro coming out. I'll be shocked if we ever see FCPX 11.

Fortunately I am very much at a beginner level in video and it will take me quite a while until I outgrow iMovie. When I do though I'm probably going to look to upgrade to a full CC plan so that I can use Premiere instead of buying FCPX (but by then I'd imagine we'll have some sense of where Apple is going with FCP and I'll be able to make a better decision).

What of the Mac Pro too? Why does this machine exist right now? The RiMac is the best machine they offer at the moment. We'll see what happens with that later this year, whether it's reved to support a theoretical 5k monitor that may be released at some point.

The riMac throttles it's hardware when under load, the nMP has server grade hardware that has no such issues. It's called a Mac Pro for that and many reasons.

 

[steve123]

It is encouraging to hear the references to FCPX. If Apple does with Photo's what they did with FCP then we are in for a hugely improved application for editing and managing our Photo's. IMO, FCPX is far and away the best and most productive video editing application out there. It wasn't that way when it launched but it sure is now.

 

[VirtualRain]

It is encouraging to hear the references to FCPX. If Apple does with Photo's what they did with FCP then we are in for a hugely improved application for editing and managing our Photo's. IMO, FCPX is far and away the best and most productive video editing application out there. It wasn't that way when it launched but it sure is now.

I wish what you're saying might be true but what happened with FCP is not what's happening here.

The equivalent move in video would be to cancel FCP and iMovie and come out with a new app called Videos that was pretty much iMovie with syncing of videos. To expect such an app to one day be equivalent to FCP would be foolish I think.

 

[jms969]

Apple is not a hardware company. They put an intel chip on a fox con motherboard with AMD/Nvidia gfx card yada, yada, yada.

This is a nice computer, but it would run Windows or Linux if I asked it to. I choose to run OS X.

Now, the Histogram is there, it just ha to be enabled. That is one preference setting away from being on all the time (even if they haven't added that setting yet). I am 100% certain Apple did not do this to 'give you the middle finger.'

One of the things mentioned specifically in the "Advances in Core Image" video is how easy it is to create presets for developers. IF they are easy to create, they should be easy to implement.

So this may well turn into an FCP X with a rough start that matures into a great application. I would hope they learned their lesson last time and get this one sorted out first though.

Seriously, that is what you glean from this conversation

I moved on two years ago, it was obvious that had abandoned the pro and prosumer photography market, instead they have opted for a nice looking app that will appeal to soccer moms (no disrespect meant) and support 's hardware sales...

 

[jms969]

You're right that Apple isn't a hardware company. They sell the whole experience, top to bottom.

I would differ on that subject. I think is a consumer hardware company pure and simple with everything they do focused on selling hardware. Software is only to be created to sell more hardware, Photos is a brilliant example of that...

With this move I honestly question the long term future of Logic and Final Cut as well. They are focusing on who is bringing in the money for them, and that is consumers, period.

Yup...

What of the Mac Pro too? Why does this machine exist right now? The RiMac is the best machine they offer at the moment. We'll see what happens with that later this year, whether it's reved to support a theoretical 5k monitor that may be released at some point.

That is indeed the $64K question...

I look at what happened to FCP X and Logic and still hold on to hope for Photos. I wish to remain Adobe free until the "rent the software" urge gets out of their system, so if I move to something else, it will probably not be Lightroom.

I think long term what you are going to find are in general two tiers of software

1. Cheap app selling for under $25 that you purchase a perpetual license for.

2. More substantial apps such as Adobe CC and Office 365 that will be subscription based. Subscription is here ti stay and how software will be consumed in the future... IMHO

 

[skaeight]

The riMac throttles it's hardware when under load, the nMP has server grade hardware that has no such issues. It's called a Mac Pro for that and many reasons.

Apple used to sell servers as well. How'd that work out?

If they're no longer focusing on building software that requires advanced hardware, how much longer will they be building advanced hardware?

 

[OreoCookie]

I'll be shocked if we ever see FCPX 11.

Apple has adopted OS X's numbering scheme for FCPX, and AFAIK the current version is 10.1.4. That means it has received one major upgrade (just like going from 10.9 to 10.10 was a major upgrade). Hence, Apple has already put out a major update to Final Cut. Overall, Apple has released 14 point updates between June 2011 and now. The last update was mid-September 2014. Even if you hate what Apple has done to it, Apple has revved it regularly. (I don't use it, but I always thought Apple puts more love into audio and video than photography.)

What of the Mac Pro too? Why does this machine exist right now? The RiMac is the best machine they offer at the moment. We'll see what happens with that later this year, whether it's reved to support a theoretical 5k monitor that may be released at some point.

All you need to do is look at Intel's release schedule, because the lack of 5K support is not on Apple, it's on Intel: 5K monitors require more bandwidth than a single channel of Thunderbolt can supply. We'll have to wait for Intel's next architecture, Skylake, which will come in late 2015/early 2016. Given that Xeons usually lag behind the mobile and desktop parts, I am fairly certain that native 5K display support won't come until 2016. It's not even clear whether the desktop parts will make it in 2015, because Skylake is actually two generations ahead of where we are now.

To achieve 5K support in the iMac, Apple has bundled two Displayport connections together (they had to develop their own chip for this).

 

[colorspace]

Competitors

I think it has been said (probably tongue in cheek) that it's not cost-effective for Apple to develop a proper Aperture replacement. But somehow folks can come up with nearly photoshop bits of software like Pixelmator and the new Affinity (https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/photo/) for less than $50.

Apple, cancels well selling Aperture and with probably about 1 years worth of work offers us Photos?!

 

[maflynn]

I wish what you're saying might be true but what happened with FCP is not what's happening here.

The equivalent move in video would be to cancel FCP and iMovie and come out with a new app called Videos that was pretty much iMovie with syncing of videos. To expect such an app to one day be equivalent to FCP would be foolish I think.

I think there are some similarities, but not enough. Apple is killing off a popular app that was feature packed, albeit long in the tooth and needed updates/improvements to those features but feature pack nonetheless. The replacement is visually something that is inline with apple's design philosophies in 2015 but it lacks the same level of features. I fully expect apple over the course of 2 to 3 years to add some of those features back - keyword SOME.

Do you want to wait years for a feature that already existed in Aperture, where that waiting may be in vain, i.e., not all Aperture features will be brought into Photos?

Then there's the risk of apple killing off photos in a number of years for something else that is more directed towards what consumers want in that time.

I think I want an application that works for me now, not what it might do in the future. I also want some peace of mind that its going to be supported and improved for the foreseeable future.

 

[OreoCookie]

I think it has been said (probably tongue in cheek) that it's not cost-effective for Apple to develop a proper Aperture replacement.

I've never heard anyone say that. Everyone is so fixated on iOS sales that they claim it's not worth it (there is not enough money in it for Apple), but Aperture was one of the highest-grossing apps on the app store.

 

[maflynn]

Apple, cancels well selling Aperture and with probably about 1 years worth of work offers us Photos?!

That's the one thing I still don't understand. Aperture has been one of the top selling apps in the MAS - they were selling lots of copies of this app. I just don't understand the justification of apple rolling out something as devoid of features to replace such a well selling product.

 

[gnomeisland]

Proper structure, versions, rating metadata, round tripping

There is a lot of panic over this issue (which I understand) but most of us have never used even the BETA version of the software.

IMHO the big missing features are organizational ability (we need to create/search in nested albums AT LEAST), proper versioning (should be relatively trivial with the new backend—perhaps even with versions that act as stacks), and proper rating metadata (again, also very easy it would just be automatic keywords). Round tripping would be more complicated but not very much so. It might mean generating TIFFs like Aperture but there are worst things.

Most of the other features could be added as plugins.

I think the biggest issue is not how/when Apple will add these features to Photos for Mac (since the code all exists in Aperture) but how it will add these features to Photos for iOS. Like iWork Apple is prioritizing cross compatibility at the expense of basically everything else. A risky long-term strategy because many of us will become increasingly invested in other companies cloud solutions and therefore not tied into Apple's wall garden.

After having played with Pixelmatr for both iOS and Mac I can see the appeal of where Apple is going. I just don't think they are going to get there fast enough. Something is wrong in their corporate climate because they are taking too long to release buggy software.

 

[OreoCookie]

That's the one thing I still don't understand. Aperture has been one of the top selling apps in the MAS - they were selling lots of copies of this app. I just don't understand the justification of apple rolling out something as devoid of features to replace such a well selling product.

I think that's the million dollar question here, you'd think they have learnt from the botched FCP X transition. And I don't mind missing features if I get something else in return. FCP X has received 14 updates over the last 3.5 years. That's roughly as many as OS X updates in the same time frame. So while some people will still complain, Apple has put in the work to show that (at least) they are convinced FCP X is a good product. Aperture has received far less love.

The only (unsatisfactory) conjecture I can come up with is that Apple has a history of liking music and video over photography. Case in point, iMovie was released 3 years before iPhoto, and Garageband has received way more stage time than iPhoto. I think they've missed that the iPhone has become one of the most popular cameras on the planet.

 

[robgendreau]

I think that's the million dollar question here, you'd think they have learnt from the botched FCP X transition. And I don't mind missing features if I get something else in return. FCP X has received 14 updates over the last 3.5 years. That's roughly as many as OS X updates in the same time frame. So while some people will still complain, Apple has put in the work to show that (at least) they are convinced FCP X is a good product. Aperture has received far less love.

The only (unsatisfactory) conjecture I can come up with is that Apple has a history of liking music and video over photography. Case in point, iMovie was released 3 years before iPhoto, and Garageband has received way more stage time than iPhoto. I think they've missed that the iPhone has become one of the most popular cameras on the planet.

I think Photos IS their recognition of the popularity of iPhone photography, and a better way of getting that on the desktop than iPhoto/iTunes. And certainly a way to store and kaching! make money off subscriptions. $20/mo for one TB is pretty high; MS's Photos app, which has similar basic functions, will only be $7/mo for that same storage. That free 5GB can be eaten up even by iPhone camera's pretty quick. I'd take that money over Aperture's profit any day.

 

[maflynn]

I think Photos IS their recognition of the popularity of iPhone photography, and a better way of getting that on the desktop than iPhoto/iTunes. And certainly a way to store and kaching! make money off subscriptions. $20/mo for one TB is pretty high; MS's Photos app, which has similar basic functions, will only be $7/mo for that same storage. That free 5GB can be eaten up even by iPhone camera's pretty quick. I'd take that money over Aperture's profit any day.

But its not an either or question. Apple seemingly was successful in managing iPhotos and Aperture at the same time. They could have upgraded Aperture with similar iCloud integration as photos, add in long over due editing capabilities and they'd have a winner. Instead they are intent on focusing on the consumer segment.

Its a moot point I guess. We can complain, offer our insights, opinions until we're blue in the face. The fact remains, apple chose a path, we as hobbyists/serious photographers/prosumers and even professionals need to decide on what's the best tool.

 

[skaeight]

But its not an either or question. Apple seemingly was successful in managing iPhotos and Aperture at the same time. They could have upgraded Aperture with similar iCloud integration as photos, add in long over due editing capabilities and they'd have a winner. Instead they are intent on focusing on the consumer segment.

Its a moot point I guess. We can complain, offer our insights, opinions until we're blue in the face. The fact remains, apple chose a path, we as hobbyists/serious photographers/prosumers and even professionals need to decide on what's the best tool.

I agree with this. I think everyone has made it very clear where they stand. Some want to stay and see what Apple gives them, some have moved on.

Lets get out and take some pictures now!

 

[OreoCookie]

I think Photos IS their recognition of the popularity of iPhone photography, and a better way of getting that on the desktop than iPhoto/iTunes.

Yes, but Photos will only take care of the low end for now, and it took quite a while until Apple put in the necessary effort. Moreover, Aperture hasn't gotten the same treatment as Apple's professional music and video apps.

And certainly a way to store and kaching! make money off subscriptions. $20/mo for one TB is pretty high; MS's Photos app, which has similar basic functions, will only be $7/mo for that same storage. That free 5GB can be eaten up even by iPhone camera's pretty quick. I'd take that money over Aperture's profit any day.

I don't think subscription revenue is the reason we have no Aperture X, that makes very little sense to me. Besides, how many people will get a subscription for the higher tiers?

 

[v3rlon]

Yes, but Photos will only take care of the low end for now, and it took quite a while until Apple put in the necessary effort. Moreover, Aperture hasn't gotten the same treatment as Apple's professional music and video apps.

I don't think subscription revenue is the reason we have no Aperture X, that makes very little sense to me. Besides, how many people will get a subscription for the higher tiers?

I think some of what we want is going to come from third parties. Apple went through the trouble of showing how easy it is to create extensions. Then everyone else writes the "apps" and you customize it to your needs.

This is exactly what they did with the iPhone and App store, and look how badly that worked out for them. It was so terrible they did it again on the Mac.

So if Nik wants to create plugins, how cool is that?

 

[steve123]

I wish what you're saying might be true but what happened with FCP is not what's happening here.

The equivalent move in video would be to cancel FCP and iMovie and come out with a new app called Videos that was pretty much iMovie with syncing of videos. To expect such an app to one day be equivalent to FCP would be foolish I think.

One thing to keep in mind is Apple's capacity to learn from experience. The FCP user base was a fraction of what Aperture is. I speculate they learned a lot from the FCP experience about transitioning to a new paradigm and are being very deliberate about what they do with Photo's introduction. The first step was to not make any promises that Photo's would be a replacement for Aperture. The reality is that is exactly what it is. It is tough to leave something behind but they need to do so to stay focused on what is important. I am hopeful all that Aperture did in the past will come to Photo's and more. It only makes sense to me for them to do so.