6 Months Since Aperture (& iPhotos) Death

[skaeight]

I just caution anyone about putting too many hopes into what Photos could be. The potential is there, but a lot of things have to come together (both from Apple and 3rd parties) to make it even replace iPhoto functionality. My experience with Apple is they will let you down if you put all your hopes and dreams into a potential product of theirs.

I'm happily editing images in LR as we speak, applying lens correction, looking at my histogram, and even applying perspective correction. This all exists now, not 3 months - 2 years from now.

You can end the anticipation and pain right now, it's just a click away :

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop-lightroom.html

 

[colorspace]

....You can end the anticipation and pain right now, it's just a click away :

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop-lightroom.html

I'm with you, and will probably purchase a copy of LR6 once it comes out. But absolutely positively refuse to rent my SW for Adobe or anyone else at this point! I would consider doing so if Adobe made an official announcement capping future CC price increases -- say for instance "no more than inflation adjusted oncer per year". But to my knowledge they have never done so.

I have a feeling that the combination of Aperture's demise (LR's main competitor) and no other obvious competitors on the horizon (not based on technical merit but perception) may tempt Adobe to get a bit greedy and short sighted with CC fees -- not that this has EVER happen before with any monopolies.

 

[skaeight]

I'm with you, and will probably purchase a copy of LR6 once it comes out. But absolutely positively refuse to rent my SW for Adobe or anyone else at this point! I would consider doing so if Adobe made an official announcement capping future CC price increases -- say for instance "no more than inflation adjusted oncer per year". But to my knowledge they have never done so.

I have a feeling that the combination of Aperture's demise (LR's main competitor) and no other obvious competitors on the horizon (not based on technical merit but perception) may tempt Adobe to get a bit greedy and short sighted with CC fees -- not that this has EVER happen before with any monopolies.

Keep in mind Photoshop is included with the Photography suite - you can't purchase Photoshop as a standalone product anymore. The other thing is when you sign up you commit to a year, the upside of which is that the price is locked for a year. If they jack the rates up, you can always buy the box product later.

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I just caution anyone about putting too many hopes into what Photos could be. The potential is there, but a lot of things have to come together (both from Apple and 3rd parties) to make it even replace iPhoto functionality. My experience with Apple is they will let you down if you put all your hopes and dreams into a potential product of theirs.

I'm happily editing images in LR as we speak, applying lens correction, looking at my histogram, and even applying perspective correction. This all exists now, not 3 months - 2 years from now.

You can end the anticipation and pain right now, it's just a click away :

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop-lightroom.html

One other thing. The Noise Reduction in LR lives up to the hype. I can safely shoot at 6400 ISO if needed and have usable pictures. This was not possible in Aperture.

Also PRESETS exist (unlike with Photos). I can make my own and use VSCO Film.

 

[colorspace]

If they jack the rates up, you can always buy the box product later.

I'd be willing to wager that with Aperture gone that the box version of LR is no more within 12 months. There was a reason that A made an exception for LR, but not for any of their other leading SW packages.... and it ain't there no more.

 

[skaeight]

I'd be willing to wager that with Aperture gone that the box version of LR is no more within 12 months. There was a reason that A made an exception for LR, but not for any of their other leading SW packages.... and it ain't there no more.

Maybe Apple is getting something on the back end from CC subscriptions...

That would explain a lot.

 

[maflynn]

Keep in mind Photoshop is included with the Photography suite - you can't purchase Photoshop as a standalone product anymore.

That was the deciding factor in my mind. I get the latest version of PS and LR for 10 bucks a month. I still wished Adobe offered a small discount to those who wanted to prepay for the entire year.

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I'd be willing to wager that with Aperture gone that the box version of LR is no more within 12 months. There was a reason that A made an exception for LR, but not for any of their other leading SW packages.... and it ain't there no more.

Tbh, I'm surprised there's some rumors that LR6 may be offered as a standalone product. I thought Adobe would go all in with LR6.

 

[skaeight]

Information aligning with what Chris Breen is saying:

https://thephotosexpert.com/forum/derrick-storys-podcast-where-he-talks-about-apples-photo-app/14267#.VNuSK4Y8KnM

Ok if you want some real clarification on the Photo App you may want to listen to Derrick Story’s latest podcast (02/10/2015): http://thedigitalstory.com/2015/02/tds-podcast-466.html

He mentions he actually talked to Apple about Photo App and it future. He states that Apple told him Photo App is a replacement for iPhoto and not Aperture. I would highly suggest if you have the time to listen to this podcast so you are able to get a good understanding of the future of this new App.

I haven't had a chance to listen yet, but I will later. I really hate to keep piling on, but it's not looking good. The big thing that he says is the first version will NOT have extension support.

 

[maflynn]

Information aligning with what Chris Breen is

By the same token, Apple has communicated that they expect Aperture users to transition to Photos and also the recent news that Aperture will no longer be available once Photo's hits the streets.

Apple will cease the development of its ‘pro’ photo editing app Aperture. Users of that program will be transitioned to Photos, a new app that was introduced during the WWDC keynote and that will be released next year.

Source of quote

 

[VirtualRain]

One thing to keep in mind is Apple's capacity to learn from experience. The FCP user base was a fraction of what Aperture is. I speculate they learned a lot from the FCP experience about transitioning to a new paradigm and are being very deliberate about what they do with Photo's introduction. The first step was to not make any promises that Photo's would be a replacement for Aperture. The reality is that is exactly what it is. It is tough to leave something behind but they need to do so to stay focused on what is important. I am hopeful all that Aperture did in the past will come to Photo's and more. It only makes sense to me for them to do so.

Where is this blind faith coming from?

If I recall correctly, when they deprecated FCP with the launch of version X they at least made it clear there was an aggressive roadmap to bring back a lot of features that were notably missing. AND FCPX was a new version of a Pro App!!! They've made no such commitment here and Photos is a new version of a consumer app. In fact, I see reviewers with access to Apple saying that Professionals ought to look elsewhere over and over. I don't believe Photos is ever going to be a pro-app or have pro-app capabilities.

It seems to me that many Aperture users around this forum transitioned away over the last couple of years, with an increasing number departing over the last 6 months, with another big batch set to leave now. What does that leave? Likely very few. Which means there's no user base of professional or enthusiast photographers left using Photos, and hence no demand for pro-level features. Apple would be trying to win users back which is a LOT harder than keeping them. It's done.

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Information aligning with what Chris Breen is saying:

https://thephotosexpert.com/forum/d...lks-about-apples-photo-app/14267#.VNuSK4Y8KnM

Ok if you want some real clarification on the Photo App you may want to listen to Derrick Story’s latest podcast (02/10/2015): http://thedigitalstory.com/2015/02/tds-podcast-466.html

He mentions he actually talked to Apple about Photo App and it future. He states that Apple told him Photo App is a replacement for iPhoto and not Aperture. I would highly suggest if you have the time to listen to this podcast so you are able to get a good understanding of the future of this new App.

I haven't had a chance to listen yet, but I will later. I really hate to keep piling on, but it's not looking good. The big thing that he says is the first version will NOT have extension support.

This. It's done folks. If you want a pro-level app... don't wait for Apple. There are some great choices out there. I'm pretty much settled on going to Capture One Pro, although I'll reserve final judgement until I see what LR6 offers.

 

[steve123]

Where is this blind faith coming from?

If I recall correctly, when they deprecated FCP with the launch of version X they at least made it clear there was an aggressive roadmap to bring back a lot of features that were notably missing. AND FCPX was a new version of a Pro App!!! They've made no such commitment here and Photos is a new version of a consumer app. In fact, I see reviewers with access to Apple saying that Professionals ought to look elsewhere over and over. I don't believe Photos is ever going to be a pro-app or have pro-app capabilities.

I was a FCP user and am happy with what FCPX ended up becoming. I gotta think Apple learned something from that experience. There was a lot of noise during the FCP - FCPX debacle. A lot of that noise still continues today with switchers maintaining that FCPX is some sort of iMovie Pro app. I do not share that view.

I could be wrong about this and certainly if they mess up and do not launch with the plugin capability AND launch with one or two companies beside them showing off their plugins ... well, they will have missed a big chance to build a bridge with those willing to wait this out. Better to delay the release of Photo's if the plugin capability is not there.

I think these long threads of concern are a good thing. I think they bring attention to Apple that people really care about these apps and really care about the future of being able to use them. I am no professional photographer by any means but I could never go back to iPhoto having used Aperture for years now. These forum threads are full of valuable market research Apple marketing execs could not even dream to hope to get from a research firm they engaged and paid to go get. I gotta believe they are reading this stuff.

One last point. As much as Apple is a hardware company selling iOS devices and Macs, it is *what* these hardware devices do that matters. I think Apple understands that more than most other companies at the moment. I think they realize that people go out and buy these devices because of the creative things they can do with them. They will not abandon Photography. It is one of three pillars on which the Mac and iOS is built ... music, video and photography.

 

[robgendreau]

Where is this blind faith coming from?


This. It's done folks. If you want a pro-level app... don't wait for Apple. There are some great choices out there. I'm pretty much settled on going to Capture One Pro, although I'll reserve final judgement until I see what LR6 offers.

It is blind faith. But my experience is like Breen's in Macworld; everyone I know personally gave up on Aperture quite a while ago, at least in part. The folks here are the people who held off on alternatives hoping Apple would produce Aperture Plus instead of iPhotos Plus. But they also held on during the years Aperture lay fallow.

I can appreciate it if you like Aperture, but really. The feature differences between it and competitors isn't so different. They all have more than most use, and LR/PS is the industry standard, and cheaper than when I started first buying it. Apple doesn't produce "pro" level Excel or In Design/Quark or Word or other "pro" applications. They are the exception rather than the rule.

NO developer that caters to those who rely on the developer's software for business treat it as Apple did Aperture. You don't axe something, stop selling it, promote an alternative that is NOT the pro app, wait years to update it substantially, and have no one on board at announcement to support it with plugins etc. Apple is not stupid at marketing. They didn't just forget to to that. Take them at their word; read the Apple's pages on Photos and come back here with evidence from those pages that it is the successor to Aperture. It just isn't, and won't be.

Besides, Photos will do a lot. Why expect it do more? It's a freebie for goodness sakes. And it may do all you need. Judge it on what it is.

 

[VirtualRain]

One last point. As much as Apple is a hardware company selling iOS devices and Macs, it is *what* these hardware devices do that matters. I think Apple understands that more than most other companies at the moment. I think they realize that people go out and buy these devices because of the creative things they can do with them. They will not abandon Photography. It is one of three pillars on which the Mac and iOS is built ... music, video and photography.

I agree that Apple wants to differentiate, not just on hardware design, but what these devices can do. Apple sold 75 Million iPhones last quarter... and less than 5 Million Macs. They're biggest opportunity is to get even 10% of those iPhone buyers, to buy a Mac. That alone would nearly triple the Mac business. It's therefore not surprising to see Apple focused on ecosystem functionality that makes these things work better together so it's a no-brainer for an iPhone owner to choose a Mac for their next computer.

And the iPhone is now the #2 camera in the world.

That's where Apple's focus is... turning the iPhone into the #1 camera, and the Mac into the best computer for iPhone owners.

 

[skaeight]

I was a FCP user and am happy with what FCPX ended up becoming. I gotta think Apple learned something from that experience. There was a lot of noise during the FCP - FCPX debacle. A lot of that noise still continues today with switchers maintaining that FCPX is some sort of iMovie Pro app. I do not share that view.

I could be wrong about this and certainly if they mess up and do not launch with the plugin capability AND launch with one or two companies beside them showing off their plugins ... well, they will have missed a big chance to build a bridge with those willing to wait this out. Better to delay the release of Photo's if the plugin capability is not there.

I think these long threads of concern are a good thing. I think they bring attention to Apple that people really care about these apps and really care about the future of being able to use them. I am no professional photographer by any means but I could never go back to iPhoto having used Aperture for years now. These forum threads are full of valuable market research Apple marketing execs could not even dream to hope to get from a research firm they engaged and paid to go get. I gotta believe they are reading this stuff.

One last point. As much as Apple is a hardware company selling iOS devices and Macs, it is *what* these hardware devices do that matters. I think Apple understands that more than most other companies at the moment. I think they realize that people go out and buy these devices because of the creative things they can do with them. They will not abandon Photography. It is one of three pillars on which the Mac and iOS is built ... music, video and photography.

Go listen to the podcast I linked to. Derrick Story (like Chris Breen) had direct access to Apple and was able to ask direct questions which they answered. It's done. They're not releasing a 1.0 with extensions. Their words are that it's not intended to replace Aperture, but rather iPhoto. They even said something to the effect that if you need Aperture features you may be better looking elsewhere (this seems to confirm my suspicion that having Lightroom in the 5K iMac video was not an accident). Story even indicated that the developers he was talking to had used Aperture to organize folders and they very much recognized the shortcomings of Photos (I wonder if they're already using Lightroom).

I echo robgendreau's sentiment, if Photos will work for you as it's presented on the preview page, great, that's fantastic. You have a free cloud synced photo solution. But please don't make your decision based on the best case scenario of what might be someday, when all of the evidence we have is pointing in the other direction. This is not the same situation as FCPX (as was mentioned above, they were very open with a development roadmap to add missing functionality). Just save yourself the heartache and uncertainty and move on. Apple has.

 

[VirtualRain]

Go listen to the podcast I linked to. Derrick Story (like Chris Breen) had direct access to Apple and was able to ask direct questions which they answered. It's done. They're not releasing a 1.0 with extensions. Their words are that it's not intended to replace Aperture, but rather iPhoto. They even said something to the effect that if you need Aperture features you may be better looking elsewhere (this seems to confirm my suspicion that having Lightroom in the 5K iMac video was not an accident). Story even indicated that the developers he was talking to had used Aperture to organize folders and they very much recognized the shortcomings of Photos (I wonder if they're already using Lightroom).

I echo robgendreau's sentiment, if Photos will work for you as it's presented on the preview page, great, that's fantastic. You have a free cloud synced photo solution. But please don't make your decision based on the best case scenario of what might be someday, when all of the evidence we have is pointing in the other direction. This is not the same situation as FCPX (as was mentioned above, they were very open with a development roadmap to add missing functionality). Just save yourself the heartache and uncertainty and move on. Apple has.

QFT!

The good news is, the search for a new RAW editing app has actually injected some excitement into this rather dull part of the year for photography.

 

[colorspace]

I'm saying this as someone who is reluctantly going towards LR. I'm going to wait until my demo expires in a few weeks before actually signing up and committing to a year in hopes the Photos beta is out and maybe they add a few missing features (or maybe some 3rd party extensions are released to fill in the gaps), or I determine it will work for me somehow. I'm still torn, LR is great for editing, but the simplicity and integration with the OS are very appealing.

After what we've seen from the release of the Photos beta... are you still hanging on? Just wondering cause I was, but no more hope for Photos to be anywhere close to being of "interest" for at least a year, if not more.

 

[joemod]

They will not abandon Photography. It is one of three pillars on which the Mac and iOS is built ... music, video and photography.

Photography from iPhone. Casual that is. Not professional, prosumer or enthusiast.

 

[skaeight]

After what we've seen from the release of the Photos beta... are you still hanging on? Just wondering cause I was, but no more hope for Photos to be anywhere close to being of "interest" for at least a year, if not more.

Nope. On Sunday night I found out that the histogram In Photos couldn't permenantly be enabled and had to be enabled for each individual photo, I went ahead and signed up for CC Photography suite. That was all I needed to know about Apple's intent for the application.

Then yesterday I found out there will be no extensions with version 1 and Apple is making it very clear to anyone who will ask the right questions this is not a replacement for Aperture. That just reinforces I made the right choice. It really really sucks it came to this though. In the thread from VirtualRain where he compared the performance of all of the DAMs, Aperture surprisingly is actually still the fastest. It's because the underlying GPU accelerated Core Image foundation is great. It is a shame that Apple decided they aren't interested in this market anymore. but, it is what is.

Onward with Lightroom. I'm starting to get to know it and like its capabilities. Editing wise it is much much more powerful than Aperture (Aperture 3 was out for 5 years without a major update - this should be the case). If Adobe adds GPU acceleration with LR 6, I'll have very little to complain about.

 

[maflynn]

Photography from iPhone. Casual that is. Not professional, prosumer or enthusiast.

Agreed, apple is interested in photography but its more or less limited to the iPhone camera and the casual user.

 

[jms969]

Agreed, apple is interested in photography but its more or less limited to the iPhone camera and the casual user.

My 80yo mother is excited about Photos, she is an avid iPhone photo shooter and HATES iPhoto (yes she has an iPhone, iPad, and iMac). Photos will be perfect for her...

 

[VirtualRain]

My 80yo mother is excited about Photos, she is an avid iPhone photo shooter and HATES iPhoto (yes she has an iPhone, iPad, and iMac). Photos will be perfect for her...

The funny thing is I'm looking forward to Photos, but for different reasons than you might think... both the women in my life are into photography (one in particular takes photos mostly of food and themselves). The only camera they have is the one on their phone and they're constantly asking me how to get photos onto their laptops. Photos can't come soon enough

 

[jms969]

The funny thing is I'm looking forward to Photos, but for different reasons than you might think... both the women in my life are into photography (one in particular takes photos mostly of food and themselves). The only camera they have is the one on their phone and they're constantly asking me how to get photos onto their laptops. Photos can't come soon enough

For those types of applications it looks like it will be a fantastic addition to OSX... My mother is very excited about it, he wants photos to flow from her iphone to ipad to imac. LR or Aperture it isn't and never will be

Sounds like we are in exactly the same boat...

 

[skaeight]

Kind of a sad post from Joseph at thePhotosExpert.com (formerly apertureexpert.com):

https://thephotosexpert.com/tips/2015/2/12/photos-what-it-what-it-isnt-what-it-shall-be#.VNz7j4Y8KnO

Go read the whole thing, it's a great summary of Photos, but here is the meat:

This is where the news gets a little less exciting. Last year, I was bullish on Photos eventually replacing Aperture. I no longer feel that way. I am sure it will be a great app — a really great app. And I’m sure that it will have enough features for the vast majority of users. I do not believe however that it will be sufficient for the working professional. It simply is not designed for professional photographers. Sure it will gain more and more features, but those features will be prioritized by the hundreds of millions of iPhone shooters, not the relative few of us who are really, really serious about this — or who do it for a living.

Plainly put — I no longer believe that serious Aperture users should expect Photos to replace their photography management and editing needs. I am now recommending that advanced and professional users begin to explore other options.

This is a guy that staked his future on Photos being a success (he changed his site's name). It sounds like he may be doing something else soon, we'll find out tomorrow. This whole thing is just unfortunate.

 

[maflynn]

I think this statement hits the nail on the head (emphasis added by me)

I do not believe however that it will be sufficient for the working professional. It simply is not designed for professional photographers.

We've danced around whether Photos will receive updates, extensions and plugins in the course of time, which it will but the app itself is designed a full fledged DAM. It's designed more for the iphone shooter wanting to share his images. So while the app may get some interesting updates, or extensions by others. It will still be a poor fit for professionals/serious photographers who wants to manage terebytes of storage and highly organize his images .

 

[OreoCookie]

We've danced around whether Photos will receive updates, extensions and plugins in the course of time, which it will but the app itself is designed a full fledged DAM. It's designed more for the iphone shooter wanting to share his images. So while the app may get some interesting updates, or extensions by others.

To insist that it is designed for iPhone users is completely missing the point, and the app has not much to do with the iPhone. Photos is designed to give persistent access to all photos across all devices and the web. The iPhone is only important has right now, it is one of the most popular cameras on the planet, but to claim it's an app for the iPhone is myopic. I think there are plenty of users who think that persistence across devices is something very desirable, and I don't think it has anything to do with the pro/non-pro divide. Having all the infrastructure in place for this is an endeavor that is cutting edge as you need a lot of pieces to fit together, starting from the integration into OSes to the services side.

If you told professionals that their photo libraries magically sync across devices, so they could show photos to a client on their iPad, edit others with their Retina MacBook Pro in the field and finish the fine tuning on their iMac in the office. I think many pros would love to live in such a reality. Or are people juggling with multiple libraries and referenced photos because they like the complication? It's just that the requirements of more advanced users are much higher, they (rightly) demand more flexibility. I don't think any company will be able to tackle this problem without first solving it for a simple case first. To me, this is the role of Photos. And you're right that it's not flexible enough for advanced users. But it's not a product born out of a company which is focussed on a single product, the iPhone.

And photos as well as music are a comparatively simple use case, I'd like that all of my files are handled in this way, that the OS smartly caches certain files but accesses others via the cloud.

 

[skaeight]

If you told professionals that their photo libraries magically sync across devices, so they could show photos to a client on their iPad, edit others with their Retina MacBook Pro in the field and finish the fine tuning on their iMac in the office. I think many pros would love to live in such a reality.

Lightroom / Lightroom Mobile do exactly that today.