8GB RAM in M3 MacBook Pro Proves the Bottleneck in Real-World Tests

[WeLikeVodka]

Lol @ USB-A being a legacy port when it sees use on 95% of the computing world.

All I see here is yapping about how 8GB of ram is still good enough. Maybe in the $300 price range or if you plan to use Linux. But MacBooks aren't good Linux machines nor are they cheap.

We are seeing a resurgence of high memory usage like we did a few years ago, with 24 and 32GB laptops being now available for cheap, with Windows 11 and Linux being AI-ready across the world, with games now requiring high amounts of GPU memory, and even smartphones can have 16GB of physical RAM without costing $1000. Especially in China where they have super apps and Genshin Impact, the value of RAM increases for the average consumer. And they just released a phone with 16GB RAM (and admittedly a fairly mid-range CPU) for $330.

Some of you guys are arguing like your own use-cases apply to the entire world and use jargon like "user experience" as an objective all-encompasing fact (and of course, in your opinion, apple does it better than anyone).

Just because 8gb of ram is "good enough" for you doesn't mean it's a good reason to sell something for 1700 euros. I was cool with 512MB of RAM back when I was a kid, but stuff evolves

 

[henkie]

Exactly. Ports are removed: “Stuff evolves, this port is legacy…”. 8GB in a 2000 euro laptop in 2024: “It has always been good enough for me since the dawn of time, so it is fine in 2024…”. I don’t get it.

 

[jlc1978]

Some of you guys are arguing like your own use-cases apply to the entire world and use jargon like "user experience" as an objective all-encompasing fact (and of course, in your opinion, apple does it better than anyone).

Those arguing 16GB are also arguing user experience and think their use case defines what should be available or not.

In my opinion, based on my expereince, 8GB is plenty for many users. Others need 16 or 32 or more. But as long as 8GB is enough for some use cases and Apple can sell enough, it should be in the line up instead of going to 16 and potentially raising the price.

When 16GB becomes standard, Apple may or may not raise prices but will still have an expensive upgrade to 32.

Just because 8gb of ram is "good enough" for you

I simply do not understand why people have an issue with 8GB being enough for users besides themselves.

doesn't mean it's a good reason to sell something for 1700 euros. I was cool with 512MB of RAM back when I was a kid, but stuff evolves

The good reason to sell it is it sells and has the desired margins. It's not some grand conspiracy but simple economics. Once it fails to meet those goals, it'll get dropped.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

In my opinion, based on my experience, 8GB is plenty for many users.

Agreed and for me 8GB is more than enough. I'm a casual user who's retired so 8GB is enough to check email, for web browsing, online banking, watching YT videos and listening to music. I have NO interest in Apple Intelligence (AI). There's no doubt in my mind that the price will increase. IIRC, when Apple increased the base storage in the iPhone Pro's the price went up, maybe not by $200 but it did go up. If they double the RAM in MacBooks, I expect at least a $100 bump in price.

 

[WeLikeVodka]

Those arguing 16GB are also arguing user experience and think their use case defines what should be available or not.

In my opinion, based on my expereince, 8GB is plenty for many users. Others need 16 or 32 or more. But as long as 8GB is enough for some use cases and Apple can sell enough, it should be in the line up instead of going to 16 and potentially raising the price.

When 16GB becomes standard, Apple may or may not raise prices but will still have an expensive upgrade to 32.



I simply do not understand why people have an issue with 8GB being enough for users besides themselves.



The good reason to sell it is it sells and has the desired margins. It's not some grand conspiracy but simple economics. Once it fails to meet those goals, it'll get dropped.

8GB of RAM is very cheap nowadays and thus I don't buy Apple's argument of "it's enough" when you're selling a laptop for a luxury price. They would have still made big profits with 16GB of RAM. This argument is fairly dodgy.

Apple has used other such tactics in the past and all I see is "but it sells well!". It doesn't mean it's a good product. There is no grand conspiracy going on, Apple has a lot more influence in society than almost any other company period, so it's normal to criticize products that can be interpreted as cash grabs.

It's also interesting to see complex answers to simple questions...

 

[ric22]

There it is: standard more Ram in the base model. Without added kost, because that is what progress is. So why has this been at 8Gb for so long?
FYI Base configuration Air:
2008-2011: 2GB
2012-2015: 4GB
2017-2024: 8Gb
Apple needs to go to 12 or 16 next year if it wants to be serious about AI on device.

Depending on what it hopes to do with AI on device, it might want 64GB next year! 😅

 

[jlc1978]

8GB of RAM is very cheap nowadays and thus I don't buy Apple's argument of "it's enough" when you're selling a laptop for a luxury price.

The price of RAM hs nothing to do with the utility of the machine for a user.

They would have still made big profits with 16GB of RAM.

By raising the price to protect margins, resulting some users paying extra for power they don't need.

This argument is fairly dodgy.

Only to people who belive component pricing should determine the selling price; which is not how pricing works.

Apple has used other such tactics in the past and all I see is "but it sells well!". It doesn't mean it's a good product.

Doesn't mean it's a bad product, either; just that it is seen as meeting the needs of a large customer base.

There is no grand conspiracy going on, Apple has a lot more influence in society than almost any other company period, so it's normal to criticize products that can be interpreted as cash grabs.

That's the crux of many 16GB arguments - "I want 16GB at the price of 8GB." Rather than a cash grab, it's providing users an option at a compelling price point.

It's also interesting to see complex answers to simple questions...

It's really simple economics, not a cash grab, greed , or many similar accusations leveled at Apple.

In the end, simple answer is if you need more than 8GB, buy it. If not, don't. If you don't like Apple's prices, buy something else. It's simply a business.

 

[Abazigal]

8GB of RAM is very cheap nowadays and thus I don't buy Apple's argument of "it's enough" when you're selling a laptop for a luxury price. They would have still made big profits with 16GB of RAM. This argument is fairly dodgy.

The iPhone 5s base model came with 16gb of storage. It didn't stop me from getting the model with 64gb of storage. Nor did I purposely buy a model with insufficient space, then go around complaining about how Apple was trying to cheat me.

To me, this is a nothing burger as well. If 8gb ram isn't enough (and you know your own needs best), then get the 16gb ram version. If even that isn't enough, then you are possibly looking at the pro models which already start with that much ram anyways, and so the argument of whether 8gb ram suffices or not is a moot point.

And if I want to go there, RED cameras is another example of very expensive film cameras which still require their users to spend a small fortune on additional peripherals on top of the initial purchase. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[maxoakland]

That’s not comparable and you know it…

Yes it is. They’re making the point that memory needs increase. Apple hasn’t been keeping up

 

[chucker23n1]

The iPhone 5s base model came with 16gb of storage. It didn't stop me from getting the model with 64gb of storage.

It’s funny you bring that up, since John Gruber complained, including on an interview on stage with Phil Schiller, that they stuck to 16 a little long.

 

[AssassuN]

really sad seeing some of these justifications for 8gb of ram lol.
these companies are not your friends.

 

[henkie]

really sad seeing some of these justifications for 8gb of ram lol.
these companies are not your friends.

This! “Apple must protect their margins!” The (almost) richest company in the world and they are defending the cash grabs. “It sells well.” Did the Mac sell well lately? I put a bet out: if the m4 MBs will come standard with 16gb (and 512gb ssd?), those will sell like hot cakes. Because of the outrageous prices for 8GB laptops (remember: a 8GB M3 MBP is 2000 euros) and the expensive upgrades, many around me bought windows laptops or refurbished outside the Apple Store (me included). Maybe, just maybe, if you could get 16gb MacBooks at reasonable prices, Macs would sell a lot better (even if it would take a little less margin).

 

[chucker23n1]

“It sells well.” Did the Mac sell well lately?

Yes; Macs have been selling very well in recent years.

 

[WeLikeVodka]

The iPhone 5s base model came with 16gb of storage. It didn't stop me from getting the model with 64gb of storage. Nor did I purposely buy a model with insufficient space, then go around complaining about how Apple was trying to cheat me.

To me, this is a nothing burger as well. If 8gb ram isn't enough (and you know your own needs best), then get the 16gb ram version. If even that isn't enough, then you are possibly looking at the pro models which already start with that much ram anyways, and so the argument of whether 8gb ram suffices or not is a moot point.

And if I want to go there, RED cameras is another example of very expensive film cameras which still require their users to spend a small fortune on additional peripherals on top of the initial purchase. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

No. 16GB back in 2013 was fair. Even the iphone 6s released two years later had such storage. It was common on mid-range phones in 2016 before the rise of mobile gaming.

The comparison with RED is also apples and oranges. RED operates in a niche environment while Apple tries to market themselves to the general public.

It's also interesting how apple uses the pro moniker to sell you 8gb ram laptops. It's literally companies using shady tactics to upsell you the model that would have still been overpriced even if available for the base model's price.

 

[WeLikeVodka]

The price of RAM hs nothing to do with the utility of the machine for a user.



By raising the price to protect margins, resulting some users paying extra for power they don't need.



Only to people who belive component pricing should determine the selling price; which is not how pricing works.



Doesn't mean it's a bad product, either; just that it is seen as meeting the needs of a large customer base.



That's the crux of many 16GB arguments - "I want 16GB at the price of 8GB." Rather than a cash grab, it's providing users an option at a compelling price point.



It's really simple economics, not a cash grab, greed , or many similar accusations leveled at Apple.

In the end, simple answer is if you need more than 8GB, buy it. If not, don't. If you don't like Apple's prices, buy something else. It's simply a business.

Yes it does? That price gets passed to the consumer, most likely.

Saying 1700 euros is a compelling price point is living in lala land. 8GB of RAM is such a joke for that price point. It's not "simple economics" since all you really have is anecdotal examples.

The "power they don't need" argument is just wow. There is no such thing. Nobody is complaining about "too much power". It's stuff that's technically moral, but also not.

Since you're fine with people getting scammed, I understand defending apple at all costs is fine for some people, but luxury brands don't have your own interest in mind.

 

[polyphenol]

No. 16GB back in 2013 was fair. Even the iphone 6s released two years later had such storage. It was common on mid-range phones in 2016 before the rise of mobile gaming.

The comparison with RED is also apples and oranges. RED operates in a niche environment while Apple tries to market themselves to the general public.

It's also interesting how apple uses the pro moniker to sell you 8gb ram laptops. It's literally companies using shady tactics to upsell you the model that would have still been overpriced even if available for the base model's price.

Though Apple had to do some fancy footwork in order for users to be able to install a new release of IOS. (Removing some apps and re-installing after update, if I remember correctly.)

Although it technically worked, it was a frustrating experience.

My 6s was super-cheap to me which was why I accepted 16GB.

 

[ric22]

16GB storage was horrendous in 2013 and 2015, especially on a premium phone. They short changed the customers so they'd all want to buy another phone promptly, once that one filled up.

Edit: I filled up my 32GB 2010 iPhone 4, for comparison, and had to juggle stuff about to make that last until the iPhone 6 was released!

 

[Kal Madda]

Yes it is. They’re making the point that memory needs increase. Apple hasn’t been keeping up

They very clearly aren’t. 512mb wouldn’t even run macOS. 8GB runs macOS perfectly fine with plenty of ceiling for apps. The reason Apple moved from 512mb up was because 512mb was no longer sufficient to run the OS and workflows most base spec users wanted. 8GB is more than enough for hundreds of thousands of users, and that’s why base spec sales are still very high and customer satisfaction is very high…

 

[WeLikeVodka]

They very clearly aren’t. 512mb wouldn’t even run macOS. 8GB runs macOS perfectly fine with plenty of ceiling for apps. The reason Apple moved from 512mb up was because 512mb was no longer sufficient to run the OS and workflows most base spec users wanted. 8GB is more than enough for hundreds of thousands of users, and that’s why base spec sales are still very high and customer satisfaction is very high…

The customer satisfaction rate doesn't really matter. The tech world really isn't important enough to the average consumer.

The point is that Apple takes full advantage of this and saves a buck on every unit sold while knowing very well these machines have significantly shorter long-term values. The labor theory of value implies more work for a 16GB slot, but we're at the point where it's not a big problem anymore.

 

[WeLikeVodka]

Pretty much.

The best way of covering Apple is to begin with Apple. You have to focus with Apple, and then you move outwards. You start with Apple, and then you analyse the industry that Apple operates in. Instead, what I see a lot of people still do today is that they just treat Apple as any other company. But Apple does a lot of things differently, and if all you are doing is simply comparing Apple to everyone else and then go “Hey, Apple isn’t following what everyone else is doing, so I don’t think whatever Apple is doing is going to work”, I think they go down the wrong path.

Because Apple isn't a company worth of special pleading. Treating Apple like another company is fine, and should be the standard if anything.

Does every company has its own ideas and vision? sure, but those aren't the bottom lines.

 

[Kal Madda]

Yes it does? That price gets passed to the consumer, most likely.

Saying 1700 euros is a compelling price point is living in lala land. 8GB of RAM is such a joke for that price point. It's not "simple economics" since all you really have is anecdotal examples.

The "power they don't need" argument is just wow. There is no such thing. Nobody is complaining about "too much power". It's stuff that's technically moral, but also not.

Since you're fine with people getting scammed, I understand defending apple at all costs is fine for some people, but luxury brands don't have your own interest in mind.

It is a very compelling price point for a laptop with a beautiful MiniLED display with high nits of brightness, high quality sound system, high build quality, unparalleled battery runtime, and macOS built-in, etc. It’s unlike cheap Windows crap that doesn’t offer many of these pluses, and is loaded down with Windows… And in this thread I’ve showed several examples of other similar laptops charging the same or more for similar…

Yeah, so the base spec should be the M3 Ultra chip, with 128GB of RAM for the starting price of $8,800. Because after all, there’s no such thing as “too much power” for the base spec… 🙄🤦🏼‍♂️.

Nobody here is fine with people getting scammed. Apple isn’t scamming anyone. Nobody who buys a base spec model with 8GB of RAM has been forced to at gunpoint. 🙄🤦🏼‍♂️. If it was such a “scam” then how come customer satisfaction is so high? Apple is a business, not a charity. They don’t hand things out for free. They offer a base spec model that works very well for a very large portion of their customers, and then they offer upgrade options for those who need more. Claiming that those who recognize this truth and are ok with it are “fine with people getting scammed” is way out of bounds…

 

[Kal Madda]

The customer satisfaction rate doesn't really matter. The tech world really isn't important enough to the average consumer.

The point is that Apple takes full advantage of this and saves a buck on every unit sold while knowing very well these machines have significantly shorter long-term values. The labor theory of value implies more work for a 16GB slot, but we're at the point where it's not a big problem anymore.

And 512mb of RAM couldn’t run macOS and apps satisfactorily for anyone (because it’s literally impossible), while 8GBs does run macOS and apps satisfactorily for many many users… So the comparison doesn’t work, and you know full well it doesn’t…

Any base spec model has a “shorter long-term value”. Even a 16GB base spec wouldn’t hold its value as long as a 64GB M3 Max chip spec would. Why? By nature of its base spec status. Upgraded models always hold higher resale value for longer, that’s the way it’s always worked… So claiming this is somehow malicious on the part of Apple is silly. It’s just the way the used market works…

 

[WeLikeVodka]

It is a very compelling price point for a laptop with a beautiful MiniLED display with high nits of brightness, high quality sound system, high build quality, unparalleled battery runtime, and macOS built-in, etc. It’s unlike cheap Windows crap that doesn’t offer many of these pluses, and is loaded down with Windows… And in this thread I’ve showed several examples of other similar laptops charging the same or more for similar…

Yeah, so the base spec should be the M3 Ultra chip, with 128GB of RAM for the starting price of $8,800. Because after all, there’s no such thing as “too much power” for the base spec… 🙄🤦🏼‍♂️.

Nobody here is fine with people getting scammed. Apple isn’t scamming anyone. Nobody who buys a base spec model with 8GB of RAM has been forced to at gunpoint. 🙄🤦🏼‍♂️. If it was such a “scam” then how come customer satisfaction is so high? Apple is a business, not a charity. They don’t hand things out for free. They offer a base spec model that works very well for a very large portion of their customers, and then they offer upgrade options for those who need more. Claiming that those who recognize this truth and are ok with it are “fine with people getting scammed” is way out of bounds…

Yeah, let's deflect from the original argument by raving about the display and how good macos is. You don't get to make a red herring like this. The quantity of RAM is much more important for a functioning computer than the technology the display uses.

The base spec shouldn't be an M3 ultra lol. "Oh so you're implying that..." seems to be your base argument. The point is a 8gb vs 16gb comparison for someone who will buy a machine and use it for years.

Like I said, customer satisfaction rates don't matter as much as you think they do. You think the average Joe cares about the intrincacities we're arguing about? But guess what, his laptop will start going out of date in three years and Joe will blame corporate culture. Which is correct, by the way, since apple intentionally decided to keep the model and sell it for an outrageous price.

So you admit there's a thing such as "not enough" but somehow still feel the need to defend apple for making a suboptimal conscious choice.

 

[Kal Madda]

Yeah, let's deflect from the original argument by raving about the display and how good macos is. You don't get to make a red herring like this. The quantity of RAM is much more important for a functioning computer than the technology the display uses.

The base spec shouldn't be an M3 ultra lol. "Oh so you're implying that..." seems to be your base argument. The point is a 8gb vs 16gb comparison for someone who will buy a machine and use it for years.

Like I said, customer satisfaction rates don't matter as much as you think they do. You think the average Joe cares about the intrincacities we're arguing about? But guess what, his laptop will start going out of date in three years and Joe will blame corporate culture. Which is correct, by the way, since apple intentionally decided to keep the model and sell it for an outrageous price.

So you admit there's a thing such as "not enough" but somehow still feel the need to defend apple for making a suboptimal conscious choice.

All of those are part of the value proposition of the particular computer in question. Focusing on just the RAM and ignoring all of the other specs and how they contribute to the cost and value of the computer is silly. Should a computer with gold inlay chassis charge bargain-bin prices because it uses an 8GB RAM chip? Of course not, because other factors add value to it. This is a very simple concept…

Plenty of people buy an 8GB model and use it all the way through its software support life of around 7 years. Just because you couldn’t or wouldn’t do so doesn’t mean others wouldn’t. 8GB is more than enough for hundreds of thousands of base spec customers. And for many of those customers, the display and sound system are far more important to them than the RAM spec…

We’d expect customer satisfaction to drop if what you claim is happening were actually true. If so many people are finding their computers so “usless” after 3 years, you’d expect to see that reflected in the data. Less base spec models sales and higher sales for upgraded models, lower customer satisfaction. But that is not what the data suggests in the slightest, in fact, it suggests the exact opposite…

There are specs that are no longer physically capable of running macOS that people have tried to use as a point of comparison. But the very fact these specs can’t actually run macOS proves that this is a false comparison. Now, if Apple made some kind of macOS Lite, and hundreds of thousands of customers were flocking to use it and buy a cheaper 512MB Mac, then sure, why not offer it? But clearly that isn’t the case. Yet 8GB models sell very well, so clearly there are still many customers who find 8GB perfectly suitable… When/if that changes, I’m sure Apple will change the base spec configuration.

You consider 8GB to be a “suboptimal conscious choice”, but that’s merely your opinion and nothing more… I think it’s a great choice. And apparently so do hundreds of thousands of base-spec customers who buy the 8GB models and have high customer satisfaction…

 

[WeLikeVodka]

All of those are part of the value proposition of the particular computer in question. Focusing on just the RAM and ignoring all of the other specs and how they contribute to the cost and value of the computer is silly. Should a computer with gold inlay chassis charge bargain-bin prices because it uses an 8GB RAM chip? Of course not, because other factors add value to it. This is a very simple concept…

Plenty of people buy an 8GB model and use it all the way through its software support life of around 7 years. Just because you couldn’t or wouldn’t do so doesn’t mean others wouldn’t. 8GB is more than enough for hundreds of thousands of base spec customers. And for many of those customers, the display and sound system are far more important to them than the RAM spec…

We’d expect customer satisfaction to drop if what you claim is happening were actually true. If so many people are finding their computers so “usless” after 3 years, you’d expect to see that reflected in the data. Less base spec models sales and higher sales for upgraded models, lower customer satisfaction. But that is not what the data suggests in the slightest, in fact, it suggests the exact opposite…

There are specs that are no longer physically capable of running macOS that people have tried to use as a point of comparison. But the very fact these specs can’t actually run macOS proves that this is a false comparison. Now, if Apple made some kind of macOS Lite, and hundreds of thousands of customers were flocking to use it and buy a cheaper 512MB Mac, then sure, why not offer it? But clearly that isn’t the case. Yet 8GB models sell very well, so clearly there are still many customers who find 8GB perfectly suitable… When/if that changes, I’m sure Apple will change the base spec configuration.

You consider 8GB to be a “suboptimal conscious choice”, but that’s merely your opinion and nothing more… I think it’s a great choice. And apparently so do hundreds of thousands of base-spec customers who buy the 8GB models and have high customer satisfaction…

No. No no no.

There's a concept called common sense. You don't get to promote your highlights and leave behind weak points. The 8gb of ram of the MacBook Pro is a weak point. It's not hate.

You brought up a red herring argument as if that's what we are debating. Cool, every company promotes their highlights, because 16gb of ram is not as important of a marketing point as the latest display. Let's make up ridiculous arguments like the gold inlay computer with 8gb of ram instead.

As we are seeing, computers around the world are in significant needs of RAM as a result of AI, gaming, increasing OS demands, and companies phasing out of integrated solutions thanks to EU and Chinese laws. The 512mb comparison was made exactly to showcase how it was still poor back when I was kid (around 2009) and how it applies to 8GB of RAM today.

And you and Apple are basically pissing against the wind and saying 8gb of ram is fine because lots of people are fine with it and their workloads. Cool, based on this logic, may I direct you to Linux or perhaps an IBM AT?

I mean I can fake a customer satisfaction survey too by giving the right computer to a specific market.