8GB RAM in M3 MacBook Pro Proves the Bottleneck in Real-World Tests

[aevan]

In terms of computing capability it is not and never will be worth twice the price of a $799 MacBook Air. An HDMI port and a notched display doesn't change that.

If you just care about computing capability, probably not a single Mac is worth the price.

That “notched” display is one of the best laptop displays on the market. Speakers are best in class. So are microphones, build quality, etc. All these things combined - there are people who care about these things. That’s why that MacBook Pro will sell like hotcakes.

 

[Kal Madda]

Couldn’t agree more and I don’t understand the hate you get, myself my last couple of Mac desktops have had 64GB of RAM (iMac 2020 and M1 Ultra), that’s what I need for what I do comfortably, even maybe a bit overkill half of the time, but I wouldn’t want to force that on absolutely everybody because I say so.

But know what? Let’s do an exercise with what the complaints and whining over here actually means and apply my own version of it: “I want and I declare that the base models should be 64GB, because obviously 32GB and 16Gb and 8GB ARE NOT enough for what I do… therefore Apple should only sell models with 64GB of RAM and up. Oh and by the way, they are also 2TB, so I WANT them to be 2TB base storage too”. And no, nobody gets to say I’m exaggerating, from my point of view myself and everyone around me gets similarly spec’ed machines, therefore the whole world must be getting similarly too, right? Right.

Because let’s be clear, the whole thing here is “I want Apple to submit to what I want and have to say”, the rest just don’t bother and just buy what they want and need…

Do you know when Apple will stop offering lower tier models? The moment people stop buying them.

Ya, this is exactly the point I’ve been trying to make. 👍🏻. Just because someone arbitrarily decides “x low-tier option which I’m not obligated to buy isn’t enough for what I do, hence it shouldn’t exist”, doesn’t mean squat. Yet people are for whatever reason offended that low-tier options that don’t suit their needs even exist, when it does suit the needs of many, many others. Then they quickly go to things like “if you use the base model with 8GB RAM, you’re not pro.” It’s the same kind of mentality I see with detractors of the iPad Pro (I use one as my primary computer, though I do have a Mac and use it extensively as well). I’ve seen others get told they’re not professionals because they use the iPad Pro, when the iPad Pro can actually do a lot of professional work, just not their professional work. It irritates me just how many people will not just complain about a product that doesn’t suit their particular needs, but then go around telling other people whether they’re professionals or not. 🙄

 

[Kal Madda]

Just because someone arbitrarily decides “x low-tier option which I’m not obligated to buy isn’t enough for what I do, hence it shouldn’t exist”, doesn’t mean squat. Yet people are for whatever reason offended that low-tier options that don’t suit their needs even exist, when it does suit the needs of many, many others. Then they quickly go to things like “if you use the base model with 8GB RAM, you’re not pro.” It’s the same kind of mentality I see with detractors of the iPad Pro (I use one all the time for my professional work!). I’ve seen others get told they’re not professionals because they use the iPad Pro, when the iPad Pro can actually do a lot of professional work, just not their professional work. It irritates me just how many people will not just complain about a product that doesn’t suit their particular needs, but then go around telling other people whether they’re professionals or not. 🙄

 

[brofkand]

If you just care about computing capability, probably not a single Mac is worth the price.

That “notched” display is one of the best laptop displays on the market. Speakers are best in class. So are microphones, build quality, etc. All these things combined - there are people who care about these things. That’s why that MacBook Pro will sell like hotcakes.

Best LCD laptop display maybe. Easily bested by pretty much every OLED out there.

 

[MilaM]

Ultimately, Apple doesn't need their base to keep buying new products; they just need them to keep using them. The fact you haven't switched to a windows PC already means that even if you don't buy a new Mac now, eventually, one day, you will.

If I switched, it would be to a Linux box, not Windows. I came to the Mac because of it's Unix heritage and relative openness of OS X after the transition to Intel.

I think prices do play a role in buying decisions, especially here in Europe where Macs are even more expensive due to taxes, exchange rates, and general lower disposable income. It's one reason why market share here is much lower than in the US.

Also, a shrinking Mac user base in my opinion is a bad thing for the whole company. After all, someone has to write software for iOS devices somewhere. Developers switching to Linux in the long term would certainly lower innovation on the iOS platform and make it less attractive. It's probably not happening yet, but I could see it happening.

 

[Velli]

Those are also very good especially for their price, reviews online are quite positive for them.
You forgot to mention the keyboard which a top performer on Lenovo laptops.

Then the question becomes, what is the reference point of those reviews? I don't have one of those models specifically, but the screen on my Lenovo doesn't go bright enough for my preferred working spot at home, which my MBA does.

 

[Killbynumbers]

Some people need a Toyota Camry. Some need a Toyota Supra. Apple sells both, pro branding aside.

I still use my M1 8GB MacBook Air to this day with no problems. I don't do Photoshop or anything like that and right now I have 18 tabs in Safari that I never close plus, Chrome, mail and an app that I use to download Instagram pictures on that runs every so often. I also airplay YT videos to my TV every day on it.

I have a 16" M1 16GB 1TB MBP in the other room that basically does the same exact things and I can't tell the difference. There are people who will buy it and use it for non processor heavy tasks and won't have a problem with it.

 

[avkills]

Honestly I do not think the madness is because the low end tier comes with only 8GB of RAM, it is the fact that to bump up to 16GB costs another $200, which is way more than standard pricing. And Apple can get away with it because there is no way for the consumer to easily do it. Comparing anything Apple makes to a Windows OEM is pointless because currently the consumer can easily swap RAM in those Windows OEM machines for very little money.

 

[Kal Madda]

The hyperbole lives on...

My daily computer, which I'm writing on right now, is a 2020 1.1 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5 with 8 gb or RAM.

I just opened 20 browser tabs, including 5 of 4K HD Video streaming on Youtube. I'm exporting 28 photos and videos in hi-res in Apple Photos. I'm listening to my favorite music playlist in Apple Music. I'm running 8 open programs in the background, including Discord which can eat a lot of RAM. I'm even on battery.

My computer is running fine. No hiccups in typing this message. The fan has spun up, but that's the only noticeable effect.

Again, a 2020 MBA with 8 gb of memory.

Ya, I still have a Mid 2012 MacBook Pro laying around, and it originally had 8GB of RAM. I think I got it like 4 years ago. I upgraded the drive to an SSD, but for like about the first year or so, I used it with the 8GB of RAM. Even that old computer could handle about 30 browser tabs open in at least 2 different browsers, generally 3, including Chrome, Edge, and Safari (Chrome being a major RAM hoarder), over 50 large files open in Affinity Photo, probably about another 50 in Affinity Designer, and plus other apps like Microsoft Word, Apple Pages, etc. All of which got the fans spinning, but didn’t really noticeably slow it down. I used it for at least probably a year with the 8GB of RAM, and I ended up eventually upgrading to 16GB of RAM when I found a really good price on compatible cards. I upgraded the RAM, and, to be honest, it was a slight improvement, but only that, a slight improvement. And obviously the Mid 2012 MacBook Pro isn’t using unified storage, or pretty much any of the other things that makes 8GB of RAM faster on current Apple Silicon Macs, that was with an old i5.

 

[avkills]

Ya, I still have a Mid 2012 MacBook Pro laying around, and it originally had 8GB of RAM. I think I got it like 4 years ago. I upgraded the drive to an SSD, but for like about the first year or so, I used it with the 8GB of RAM. Even that old computer could handle about 30 browser tabs open in at least 2 different browsers, generally 3, including Chrome, Edge, and Safari (Chrome being a major RAM hoarder), over 50 large files open in Affinity Photo, probably about another 50 in Affinity Designer, and plus other apps like Microsoft Word, Apple Pages, etc. All of which got the fans spinning, but didn’t really noticeably slow it down. I used it for at least probably a year with the 8GB of RAM, and I ended up eventually upgrading to 16GB of RAM when I found a really good price on compatible cards. I upgraded the RAM, and, to be honest, it was a slight improvement, but only that, a slight improvement. And obviously the Mid 2012 MacBook Pro isn’t using unified storage, or pretty much any of the other things that makes 8GB of RAM faster on current Apple Silicon Macs, that was with an old i5.

Actually unless that 2012 MBP had a dedicated GPU then actually yes, it was using unified memory as the GPU was part of the CPU.

The thing that makes 8GB faster on Apple Silicon is that memory speeds and technology is way better today than in 2012.

 

[Velli]

As a 3D artist this is probably one of the reasons, I will never choose a Mac over PC. For an instance some high poly scenes or models with say 32 million polygons on with a bare minimum 2K or even 4K Textures (don't even think about 8K textures) will not even load in this base or even with the 16 GB configuration

Go to Kitbash3D search for any of their asset packs & you will see the minimum requirement is 32 GB RAM + 8 GB VRAM. While in Apple Silicon it is shared.

Now a M3 Pro pr M3 Max might be more powerful than my R9 5950
32 GB DDR4 (3200 MHz) + 250 GB SSD (Evo 970) + RTX 4060 (8 GB GDDR6), but at least I will be able to load those high-res models or scene (regardless OF the software: Maya, Blender, Substance Painter, Houdini, Unreal Engine 5). I can texture them on my PC. There is a very big change that it will lag even on a Mac pro with 16 GB RAM.

In a theoretical world M3 Max or Pro will obliterate my system with 32 or 64 GB Unified memory, But it will cost 2-3X more than my set up.

Sometimes just running the thing or opening the thing matters more than the render speed. What would I do with all those speeds if my 3D Scene doesn't even load on my PC (in this case mac).

What did your PC setup cost? A 36 GB M3 Pro is 2400 USD. There must be a Mac that sits in between "useless for you" and "would obliterate your system"? Yes, that Mac is likely to be more expensive than a comparable PC, but the fact that Macs costs more is a whole other discussion, but are there really only "underpowered" and "overpowered" versions?

 

[M3gatron]

Then the question becomes, what is the reference point of those reviews? I don't have one of those models specifically, but the screen on my Lenovo doesn't go bright enough for my preferred working spot at home, which my MBA does.

Look this is getting boring, you are trying very hard to just find an angle of attack for those laptop examples I gave and is irrelevant anyway. The discussions is about RAM and determining if 8GB on Macbooks acts like regular 16GB RAM on other laptops like it was claimed. We are at the end of 2023 anyway, at the beginning of 2024 a new wave of Windows X86 laptops will be announced and those are the real competition for current Macbooks. And let me tell you, they definitely won't have 8GB in 1600$ configurations.

 

[avkills]

What did your PC setup cost? A 36 GB M3 Pro is 2400 USD. There must be a Mac that sits in between "useless for you" and "would obliterate your system"? Yes, that Mac is likely to be more expensive than a comparable PC, but the fact that Macs costs more is a whole other discussion, but are there really only "underpowered" and "overpowered" versions?

A 3D guy should get the 128GB model. Just sayin'

 

[kk200]

If I got my high school daughter or college bound son the basic MBP, they would be thrilled even with the 8gb RAM. That would be a nice computer that does everything they need to do, except maybe play some games.

my middle school son is already using Blender to create 3d game figures to print and share with his friends. I won’t spend $1600 for a computer which will out-dated in 2y when he starts to hit the ray tracing button.

 

[Velli]

Also, a shrinking Mac user base in my opinion is a bad thing for the whole company. After all, someone has to write software for iOS devices somewhere. Developers switching to Linux in the long term would certainly lower innovation on the iOS platform and make it less attractive. It's probably not happening yet, but I could see it happening.

I agree, however, Mac user base is going up.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Please. Again with the hyperbole. And yes, 8 gb IS fine for most Apple Laptop users. That's why Apple mostly carries 8 gb models in their stores, and you have to order 16 models directly from them. If Apple knew that an 8 gb model would be a terrible user experience for most users they'd only stock 16 gb versions. You're trying to argue that Apple is knowkingly sellling terrible computers to most buyers. Please.

You've changed what I claimed we were all in agreement about; I said that given two systems with the exact same architecture except for RAM, the one with more ram will operate better than the one with less ram. That's not in dispute, right?

But saying that a 16 gb ram mac operates better than an 8 gb ram mac doesn't mean the 8 gb ram mac isn't fine for most users.

Many on this thread are saying that an 8 gb Macbook Air is fine, just not a Pro machine. But, as I and many have pointed out, what if 8 gb is all I need for my work flow, but I want a better screen, ports, battery life and speakers? You're saying I'm stupid for buying the base MBP? And great that Apple gives me that option, no?

(written on my very capable, still, MBA 2020 intel with 8 gb of ram)

I didn't use extremist words like terrible, etc. I'm the equivalent of a "centrist" around here- neither extremist FAN nor extremist anti-FAN. My posts are through a pure consumer lens, not a shareholder one. And I'm nearly an Apple everything guy... but have the ability to be critical of select Apple choices- like this one- when it appears Apple is making a choice too much for AAPL instead of us consumers.

8GB does function. 4GB would probably function. Maybe even 2GB could function. I have one older Mac running an older version of macOS with only 4GB of RAM. It functions and does most tasks. Shall we argue for Apple going back to 4GB RAM... or 2GB RAM on most of the same points?

In spite of that, there is a better experience for ALL users at 16GB RAM in a base model... whether those users do light computing or heavier. 8GB is simply NOT enough anymore for macOS which is why in his examples in the video in which he is not overloading the Mac with an abundant number of things to do, macOS is still altering how it functions, to work within too little available RAM. If anyone watches the video through objective lenses, they can see this in very tangible examples.

When he gives it some moderate/middling tasks, SWAP comes into play. SWAP (SSD) as a stand-in for RAM works, and SWAP with 4GB of RAM and maybe 2GB or 1GB or RAM could probably work too. But as many of us have come to learn from the wonder of the Fusion drive, too many writes to SSDs wear out the SSD. Will too much SWAP to Silicon SSD wear out the SSD before its time? I don't know. It's too soon to tell yet because those min-config M1s are not yet old enough to show- or not show- this potential problem in numbers (yet). If like Fusion SSD, this does manifest, there's no replacing the SSD: it's replace the entire computer. What would marginalize/minimize/eliminate SWAP for most users? More base RAM.

Does me writing 8GB is not enough anymore mean that 8GB can't work? Of course not. I shared my own example of 4GB working, with assumptions that 2GB and 1GB could probably work too (with probably heavy swap).

You are right: many ARE saying 8GB is fine. But if you look at the other group of MANY, they are saying it is not... or not enough. If we only look for supporting posts to whatever we want to believe and/or in support of only what Apple has for sale now, any case we wish to make looks correct. But key to that is ignoring the rest who offer up a different perspective. This site is mostly made of Apple enthusiasts... who spend some of their time talking & thinking about Apple stuff hard enough to actually hang out here. If a pool of Apple fans are unhappy at an Apple choice, that should be at least as respected as the pool who would argue in 110% support of Apple no matter what they choose to do.

There is no big loss for anyone if Apple addresses this issue/non-issue. Even Apple would pay very little to make it 16GB vs. 8GB, since one can buy 1 stick of DDR5 16GB at full retail markup for under $50. How long has Apple clung to 8GB now? And every 8GB Mac purchased today is going to have to still work well with 8GB for the next 7 years or so.

You are welcome to your opinion... as I am to mine. IMO: Apple should have gone 16GB base a few generations ago... maybe at the M1 launch when some of the Intel "premium" that did not get passed through to us consumers in the form of "cheaper Macs" could have washed what is probably $10-$15 cost to install 16GB instead of 8GB. There is great benefit to all in upgrading this "old" standard in premium-priced, "superior" Macs. And there is little downside for anyone in doing so.

 

[Velli]

A 3D guy should get the 128GB model. Just sayin'

Agree, although there probably are semi-pro's who couldn't afford that. I'm just playing into the poster's own claim that a 32 GB M3 Pro (which is actually 36GB) would "obliterate" his current setup.

 

[Kal Madda]

It doesn’t change the fact that my 8GB M1 MBA is faster than my 2021 16GB Lenovo, which was about the price of a base MBP, for the things that are “real world use” for me. Plus, twice the battery and a much better screen. The real test is not 8 GB Mac vs 16 GB Mac, where obviously the 16 GB will be faster. Try comparing with a 16GB Lenovo, which is the real competitor (and not some random 1000USD gaming PC with 1,5 hours of battery life).

EDIT:
Here's a "real world benchmark" for you, for the type of use that a base level MBP might see: I tried opening the largest file that I have worked with this year, which is a 600 MB powerpoint file, on both my 16 GB Lenovo and my 8 GB MBA. On both, it opens essentially instantly - within a few seconds, fast enough that I wouldn't notice if the file is small or large, and I wouldn't know how to accurately measure the difference with a stop clock. You might say that's because from a performance standpoint they are both small - but if that's the case, I never work with large files. Flipping around through the slides is a different story - on the Lenovo I get a noticeable lag on several slides, and you feel the loading times on heavy slides. I chose a specific point where skipping back 5 slides the "skipping" stops for around a second, while loading the last slide. On the MBA, the skipping is much more fluent, and on the same "skip 5 pages back" test, the slide loads at least twice as fast, in what feels like half a second.

I then opened a bunch of stuff on the MBA, including having my favourite (albeit casual) game running, while streaming a movie from Apple TV+. Something I would never do while actually working, just to randomly pick something that I'd image takes up some RAM. Activity Monitor shows less than 1 GB available RAM and a few gigs of swap. Opening the same Powerpoint file while the game and the video is both running, it still feels "instant". Skipping around in the presentation feels exactly like when nothing else is open, there's noticeable less lag, and what feels like half a second of load time on the previously mentioned slide.

Bottom line: Even under load, my 8 GB MBA is noticeably faster than my 16 GB Lenovo, FOR MY ACTUAL WORK.

This, while having a screen that allows me to actually use it in my favourite at-home working spot while the sun is shining, which my Lenovo does not. Plus, I would probably be able to do a full work day without plugging in, if I was allowed to use the Mac for work.

Ya, I’ve heard and seen many real-life comparisons like this, and even have first hand experience in seeing the difference between a 16GB RAM Intel PC vs an 8GB RAM Apple Silicon Mac. A friend of mine has a specked up MacBook Pro with 16GB of RAM, and he said that one of his family members got an 8GB RAM M1 MacBook Air, and they pitted them against each other side by side, and the MacBook Air ran something like 20 video streams at once without breaking a sweat, where that brought the higher RAM model MacBook Pro to it’s knees, it started to stutter far more than the Air. And the MacBook Pro was literally only a year older, it was a prior gen. This is why why Apple’s saying actually does hold up, people might scoff at it, but it really does perform similarly at the very least to a 16GB RAM Intel PC.

 

[Ulfric]

What did your PC setup cost? A 36 GB M3 Pro is 2400 USD. There must be a Mac that sits in between "useless for you" and "would obliterate your system"? Yes, that Mac is likely to be more expensive than a comparable PC, but the fact that Macs costs more is a whole other discussion, but are there really only "underpowered" and "overpowered" versions?

Initially I bought an R5 3500 then upgraded to 5950. Initial RAM was 16 GB, later I added another 16 GB. GPU initially was a old 1060 6 GB I had for a while. recently upgraded to 4060. I forgot how the initial system with a B450 Motherboard , CPU , PSU, Case , RAM took me, but 5950 took me $450, 16 GB RAM $40 & the GPU took me $400, so add over under $400~$450 with the original one. So no more than $1200 - $1300.

CPU performance wise 5950 will be closer to M3 max or M3 Pro , 4060 might be lower than the IGP M3 Max or pro comes with. So the difference will be the RAM & any SKU with less than 32 GB will be a no go depending on the situation.

 

[cwwilson]

It's about time Apple starts getting hit HARD on this BS. You want to sell a base Air or iMac with 8GB? Fine, I don't agree with but whatever. A "Pro" product however? Inexcusable. This is all for the sake of padding profit margins, plain and simple. Like a lot of other people here, I can't stand the fact Apple does not sell more 16GB computers as a standalone configuration. The fact you have to custom order them is outrageous. That means you either have to go through Apple and get hit with their ridiculous markup or buy second-hand.

Yes, Apple makes more money than God and so they're not going to be in a hurry to shake things up, but I do hope they take note that people are getting tired of their gimmicks. Make things easier on the customer and you'll be rewarded 10x over.

I love Apple, I really do but even those you love do things that annoy you. Apple has done a lot of things to the detriment of the consumer, I think we can all agree on that, on the sheer principle of squeezing blood from a stone. But for Pete's sake can they just throw us a bone for once? Make 16GB RAM a standard configuration. That shouldn't be too much to ask!

 

[Ulfric]

A 3D guy should get the 128GB model. Just sayin'

64 GB is enough, You can get by if you are only working on Game assets as comparatively (even AAA one) they are less detailed than anything you will see in Films. Even if you are trying to create a scene in Unreal , 32 GB will get you by. Only when you will add more & more film quality assets & 8K textures you will feel 32 GB be inadequate.

I mainly work on Game assets, so 32 GB is getting me by for now.

 

[Velli]

Look this is getting boring, you are trying very hard to just find an angle of attack for those laptop examples I gave and is irrelevant anyway. The discussions is about RAM and determining if 8GB on Macbooks acts like regular 16GB RAM on other laptops like it was claimed. We are at the end of 2023 anyway, at the beginning of 2024 a new wave of Windows X86 laptops will be announced and those are the real competition for current Macbooks. And let me tell you, they definitely won't have 8GB in 1600$ configurations.

Funny how future products from competitors are always the comparison...

You are the one trying to make claims without being able to back them up. What do you believe you have brought to the table in terms of comparing an 8 GB Mac to a 16GB Windows? I showed you a specific comparison of a real-world use case, where the Mac wins. Yes, my Lenovo is two years old, but my Macbook is 3 years old.... Do you really believe that Windows/Intel has moved further in the last two years, than Apple Silicon has in three?

Come back in March and show me the comparisons of your 16 GB Intel/Windows office machines*, doing normal office work faster than an 8 GB M3, then we can talk.

*In the real world, this means Lenovo top ranges, not entry-level Lenovos which are for home users, even though most can't tell the difference since they're all black plastic.

 

[Velli]

It's about time Apple starts getting hit HARD on this BS. You want to sell a base Air or iMac with 8GB? Fine, I don't agree with but whatever. A "Pro" product however? Inexcusable.

A product name is "inexcusable"?

That is an inexcusable statement.

 

[MilaM]

I agree, however, Mac user base is going up.

Sure, but who is driving to user base up? Developers working on the leading edge of technology? Or average users buying the base config Macs. I just say have fun running Xcode with 8GB of RAM on a 256GB SSD. I'm not saying devs are abandoning Macs in meaningful numbers just yet. But it is a possibility.

You can see it in some niches though in my opinion. A lot of open source software is not really usable on Macs. More sophisticated smart homes are almost always Linux boxes (be it ARM or Intel). I also have more than a dozen apps running on my Raspberry Pi doing very useful things for me.

 

[Velli]

Honestly I do not think the madness is because the low end tier comes with only 8GB of RAM, it is the fact that to bump up to 16GB costs another $200, which is way more than standard pricing.

Also doesn't matter. Would it make a difference to you if "base" was 1799,-, but you could get a "barebones" model with 8GB for 1599,-? Or, it's just base at 1799,- with no 8 GB option? If you need 16 GB, your issue is whether it's worth 1799,-. How much other configurations cost is completely irrelevant.

Since we are already into car analogies: Who cares how much a Toyota Supra costs, if you need a Camry?

Apple wants it's margins, so if you think they will just hand over those 8GB for free, you're hallucinating. They will either charge more, or skimp somewhere else.