8GB RAM in M3 MacBook Pro Proves the Bottleneck in Real-World Tests

[Velli]

Sure, but who is driving to user base up? Developers working on the leading edge of technology? Or average users buying the base config Macs. I just say have fun running Xcode with 8GB of RAM on a 256GB SSD. I'm not saying devs are abandoning Macs in meaningful numbers just yet. But it is a possibility.

You can see it in some niches though in my opinion. A lot of open source software is not really usable on Macs. More sophisticated smart homes are almost always Linux boxes (be it ARM or Intel). I also have more than a dozen apps running on my Raspberry Pi doing very useful things for me.

Do we know who the "user base" is in the first place? Surely Mac developers don't only develop software for all the other Mac developers outthere, so probably developers is a minority. And smart homes? Seriously? I don't think there is a "smart home running on Mac" user base available to diminish. These are, as you say, niches. What matters, in terms of growing the user base in the interest of developers, is more normal users who can buy the products that those developers makes. You know, customers.

 

[kk200]

It's about time Apple starts getting hit HARD on this BS. You want to sell a base Air or iMac with 8GB? Fine, I don't agree with but whatever. A "Pro" product however? Inexcusable. This is all for the sake of padding profit margins, plain and simple. Like a lot of other people here, I can't stand the fact Apple does not sell more 16GB computers as a standalone configuration. The fact you have to custom order them is outrageous. That means you either have to go through Apple and get hit with their ridiculous markup or buy second-hand.

Yes, Apple makes more money than God and so they're not going to be in a hurry to shake things up, but I do hope they take note that people are getting tired of their gimmicks. Make things easier on the customer and you'll be rewarded 10x over.

I love Apple, I really do but even those you love do things that annoy you. Apple has done a lot of things to the detriment of the consumer, I think we can all agree on that, on the sheer principle of squeezing blood from a stone. But for Pete's sake can they just throw us a bone for once? Make 16GB RAM a standard configuration. That shouldn't be too much to ask!

This is the point. No one argues Mac Mini‘s entry configuration. WHY we have a thread contains >1000 posts with fanboys trying to claim 8GB is enough? because it is about MBP, a Pro machine. Apple can call it MacBook Plus, I will accept it immediately.

 

[Velli]

This is the point. No one argues Mac Mini‘s entry configuration. WHY we have a thread contains >1000 posts with fanboys trying to claim 8GB is enough? because it is about MBP, a Pro machine. Apple can call it MacBook Plus, I will accept it immediately.

This statement is utterly ridiculous, and a great example of how derailed this whole discussion is. Does this mean that you would not buy a machine for your "pro" needs, if it doesn't have "Pro" in the name? Does it mean that private users should not buy a machine with "Pro" in the name?

Who cares if it's called "Pro", or "Plus", or "Yoga Pro 9i Gen8" (yes that is a real product name, and if it is Gen8, then what the hell does "9i" mean?). It's just a name. If it doesn't meet your spec requirement it's not for you. What's the deal with this whole protectionism of naming? "Pro computers should only be for REAL pro's, not you amateur pro's who don't do any Xcode or FCP or 3D rendering.". Shut the F up.

Edit: Bonus Info: You can buy a Lenovo "mobile workstation" on Lenovo's website right now, for 1400 USD, with 8GB of shared RAM and 256 GB of SSD. Please remember to go to Lenovo user forums and yell at Lenovo.

 

[JosephAW]

My take on all of this is that Sonoma is just not ready for prime time yet, macOS should not crash when it's starving for memory but just slow down, when are you open photoshop and that crashes the export that's a Sonoma / FCP problem.

 

[avkills]

Also doesn't matter. Would it make a difference to you if "base" was 1799,-, but you could get a "barebones" model with 8GB for 1599,-? Or, it's just base at 1799,- with no 8 GB option? If you need 16 GB, your issue is whether it's worth 1799,-. How much other configurations cost is completely irrelevant.

Since we are already into car analogies: Who cares how much a Toyota Supra costs, if you need a Camry?

Apple wants it's margins, so if you think they will just hand over those 8GB for free, you're hallucinating. They will either charge more, or skimp somewhere else.

The cost for Apple to go from 8GB to 16GB is almost nothing. I dislike car analogies when talking about tech -- pointless and a waste of time.

Maybe if Apple bundled the 1TB SSD/16GB RAM option for $200 extra; that would actually make more sense and be a bit more tolerable.

 

[Kal Madda]

I agree with you that the poor Mac sales this year is due to people holding on to their Macs longer, but I disagree that this is due to rising prices and poor base configs. The M1 has been that good for me. Even though I have the cash to upgrade to a 15" MBA with 16gb of ram, it feels like a waste because of how new my M1 MBA still is. It sufficed for me back in 2020, it suffices for me now, and it will probably suffice for me all the way till I finally find some excuse to replace it.

Just take the recent "Scary Fast" keynote. The challenge for Apple in selling these new MacBook Pros is that the machines are more than what 99% of the Apple installed base need to complete their workflows. We are talking niche territory. I feel there is a certain irony in Apple committing itself to 4 super-niche devices (Mac Pro, Mac Studio, 14" and 16" MBP) that maybe 1-2% of their overall Mac user base will really need. And yet their pro user base continues to gripe and complain, not realising how much backwards Apple has bent over in terms of devoting so significant an amount of time and resources towards serving this incredibly niche community.

Meanwhile, us mass consumers get just the MBA in 2 sizes, the Mac mini and iMac (4 product choices as well), even though we make up more than 90% of buyers. And still people think that Apple's lineup is getting too bloated. The sheer hilarity.

What will get users to finally upgrade? Time probably. Maybe someone’s workflow changes, they get a new job, or they want to try a new hobby. It has only been two years since Apple gave the 14-inch and 16-inch MacBook Pros Apple Silicon, and M1 Max users will likely not need to upgrade for another 3-4 years. With that said, there is also the possibility that some Mac users are not going to upgrade to a new Mac. Instead, they will go with iPad or entirely new products like Vision Pro in the future. Such scenarios probably aren’t going to upset Apple too much.

Ultimately, Apple doesn't need their base to keep buying new products; they just need them to keep using them. The fact you haven't switched to a windows PC already means that even if you don't buy a new Mac now, eventually, one day, you will.

Exactly! 👍🏻. Every time, Apple bends over backwards for the niche professional category with their products, and every time self-same category seems to busy complaining about why what Apple’s done isn’t good enough instead of seeing all the improvements.

 

[avkills]

No the problem isn't the naming scheme, it is the cost of the upgrades IMO. It also seems that the higher end system you get the more the upgrades are also.

 

[Velli]

The cost for Apple to go from 8GB to 16GB is almost nothing. I dislike car analogies when talking about tech -- pointless and a waste of time.

Maybe if Apple bundled the 1TB SSD/16GB RAM option for $200 extra; that would actually make more sense and be a bit more tolerable.

But there is a difference between debating the price of the product, and debating whether the product is useless. Obviously, if any company gives you more for less, the user is happy. That is a meaningless topic to discuss.

 

[kk200]

Hahaha...so, the same computer, with a different name, suddenly ISN"T armageddon? Apple suddenly isn't evil?

If the name doesn’t matter, tell me why there is no >1000 posts for 8Gb iMac.

Apple is misusing the Pro name for a product which can only do some entry level work.

 

[Velli]

No the problem isn't the naming scheme, it is the cost of the upgrades IMO. It also seems that the higher end system you get the more the upgrades are also.

Example? Usually the price to upgrade X GB of either RAM or SSD is very linear and logical (albeit high!) across models.

 

[Kal Madda]

Those are also very good especially for their price, reviews online are quite positive for them.
You forgot to mention the keyboard which a top performer on Lenovo laptops.

“Very good” and “just as good” are two very different things.

 

[Velli]

If the name doesn’t matter, tell me why there is no >1000 posts for 8Gb iMac.

Apple is misusing the Pro name for a product which can only do some entry level work.

How dare they name a computer after a fruit. Aluminium tastes like ****.

 

[smythey]

Apple customers are expected to pay $200 extra each jump up, which surely includes an healthy obscene markup, however much Apple pays its RAM suppliers.

Amended for accuracy.

 

[kk200]

So your son is not a base-configuration computer user. That doesn't mean that everyone is going to use Blender.

View attachment 2310836

He learns blender in 1h with a simple YouTube tutor video. This is the perfect example how a computer can suddenly be used for some tasks you never expected before. A Pro machine shall be able to handle such entry level usage.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

He runs basic tasks, then measures using "speedometer" and states "granted, these are both good scores" when comparing the 8 to the 16. It was only when he launched Blender, which REQUIRES 32 gb of ram (they say may work on 16 gb). So the test, from the start, was dishonest.

But now you're bringing into play SWAP and the life of the SSD. OK? But that wasn't really the point of his video. And, I don't buy that these modern SSD's are going to see failures. I think that's a reach to support the general argument that is trying to be made here. And, I trust that Apple understand this issue as well. Again, I'm writing this on an 2020 MBA Intel with 8 gb and a 512 ssd, running the latest system. I hammer my computer all the time.

It's not just that it "works." But these systems work well. There will always be a point at which a better machine works better. That will be true at 8 gb, 16 gb or 32 gb. Apple is offering an option that works well, not just works, for most users. Have you missed all of the reviews of the M1 macs? And the majority of users buy the base models.

Yes, Apple could up these, and they will probably in the near future. But RAM isn't the only expense when they release a new computer. The chips at 3nm likely cost more. The screen likely cost more...etc etc. So, when they can offer a base model that not only works, but works very well, for most users...they OFFER it. They don't require it. And Apple would not be selling a computer that they know will give a bad user experience to their users. Just check the customer satisfaction scores.

So yes, hyperbole. In an environment where 8 gb works well for most users, and where Apple offers versions with higher ram, turning this into armageddon as many, including you, have done, is hyperbole.

Again, you are welcome to your opinion. That it aligns perfectly with what Apple sells right now seems to imply that you and Apple know what is best for everyone. Congratulations on that amazing insight!

To others reading this discussion with good knowledge of this topic, I'll simply offer this: when you are advising someone you care about in buying a new Mac, do you encourage them to up the base RAM or hold that back because you believe base RAM is sufficient? If you advise a RAM upgrade to loved ones, you obviously do NOT believe 8GB is enough for either present or possible future uses of the Mac they are buying.

I'm THE "Apple guy" in my friends & family circle. As they buy new Macs in the last few years, I find myself recommending MORE RAM every time because- IMO (and it is MY opinion)- 8GB is not enough RAM anymore. Even when their current, typical uses are light enough that 8GB would work for them, the ambiguity of how they might want to use this new Mac in the next 7 years or so encourages paying up (IMO- too much relatively) for some RAM (potential) "overkill" than simply going with 8GB and hoping it will be enough for the next 7 years.

As a nearly Apple everything guy, I grumble about the relative ripoff in upgrade pricing (vs. market pricing) and they know that I think it is ripoff pricing too (because I care about THEM more than I care about a corporation). But if one wants a Mac, there's only ONE Apple RAM store available. So instead of happily endorsing the upgrade, it's an aggravating one both for me and for friends & family buyers. Yes, Mac IS better... but no, this part of the purchase is Apple being almost needlessly greedy over Apple choosing to do what is best for consumers (again MY opinion). That I am NOT recommending ANY friend or family member to buy base RAM conveys my best opinion about 8GB RAM in new Macs.

On the other hand, if Apple finally evolved this (they certainly WILL eventually)- as they have many times before in the rest of the tech mix- I'd be happily endorsing the new Mac purchase and friends & family are buying a Mac that will likely be useful for the full 7 years, even if they get into something a few years from now that certainly does need more than 8GB RAM. No grumble, no halo tarnish- just the traditional endorsement of superior overall computers... as I've done many times before for the last 20+ years.

To all the people without an Apple guy, who trust Apple themselves to be that guy, I hope 8GB RAM is enough for you for the next 7 or so years. If not, your Apple guy will be happy to sell you another entire replacement computer because there's no upgrading RAM later if you discover 8GB is not enough. If you learn that le$$on the hard way, I suspect how you see your Apple guy will not be in the same bright light than you would if they had helped you get your earlier purchase right the first time. Caveat Emptor!

 

[kk200]

Again with this nonsense about naming. Is a professional accountant a pro? is a lawyer a pro? Shall I go on?

The idea that Pro means "intense graphic and video production work" is an artifact of a group of Apple haters trying to turn this into an issue.

Sorry, your son is NOT a base configuration candidate. AND, Blender, which you say your son uses, recommends 32 gb. So, even if the base model PRO had 16 gb, he'd still run into bottle necks. Are you going to argue that the MBP with 16 gb shouldn't be called a Pro because Blender might choke it?

This statement is utterly ridiculous, and a great example of how derailed this whole discussion is. Does this mean that you would not buy a machine for your "pro" needs, if it doesn't have "Pro" in the name? Does it mean that private users should not buy a machine with "Pro" in the name?

Who cares if it's called "Pro", or "Plus", or "Yoga Pro 9i Gen8" (yes that is a real product name, and if it is Gen8, then what the hell does "9i" mean?). It's just a name. If it doesn't meet your spec requirement it's not for you. What's the deal with this whole protectionism of naming? "Pro computers should only be for REAL pro's, not you amateur pro's who don't do any Xcode or FCP or 3D rendering.". Shut the F up.

Edit: Bonus Info: You can buy a Lenovo "mobile workstation" on Lenovo's website right now, for 1400 USD, with 8GB of shared RAM and 256 GB of SSD. Please remember to go to Lenovo user forums and yell at Lenovo.

MemoryStock
https://www.memorystock.com › Le...
Memory Upgrade for Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen 2 Mobile Workstation Laptop

You can upgrade your Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen 2 Mobile Workstation Laptop to up to a maximum memory capacity of 64GB Memory. How many total memory slot…….

Please do it to your MBP.

 

[avkills]

Example? Usually the price to upgrade X GB of either RAM or SSD is very linear and logical (albeit high!) across models.

Mostly referring to the 2019 Mac Pro RAM upgrades. Apple charges so much for them that I can't imagine anyone actually paying Apple for 2019 Mac Pro RAM.

Base Model 14" MBP; Standard 8GB > 16GB (8 GB more) $200

16" M3 Max (16/40 core), Standard 48GB -> 64GB (16 GB more), also $200. So 8GB costs the same as 16GB?

This is what I am talking about. Clearly the entry level folks are getting priced gouged to upgrade to 16GB. Or are the high end folks getting price gouged because they already spent $4000....

 

[ProfessionalFan]

If the name doesn’t matter, tell me why there is no >1000 posts for 8Gb iMac.

Apple is misusing the Pro name for a product which can only do some entry level work.

It is not only the name, but the price. The people adamantly defending 8GB RAM keep overlooking the price tag. No computer that costs $1600 should have 8GB RAM.

 

[MilaM]

These are, as you say, niches. What matters, in terms of growing the user base in the interest of developers, is more normal users who can buy the products that those developers makes. You know, customers.

At least we agree that any computing platform needs a healthy and vibrant developer community.

There are many such niches. I'm just arguing that Apple should take better care of the developer community. Providing affordable high-powered hardware is one part of the equation.

Take gaming as an example. It is also a niche and Apple seems keen as ever to convince developers to also develop games for its platform, with mediocre results.

Smart homes are another niche, and Apple is trying to get a foot in the door with HomeKit. Yet most innovation is happening on Linux systems.

 

[ProfessionalFan]

How dare they name a computer after a fruit. Aluminium tastes like ****.

If this is the best you've got, then clearly you must know the 1600 buck laptop with pro in the name with 8 GB RAM is a ripoff. You'd have a better argument otherwise.

 

[boak]

The cost for Apple to go from 8GB to 16GB is almost nothing.

So? Extending your argument, all iPhones should come with 2TB storage too?

 

[boak]

No computer that costs $1600 should have 8GB RAM.

What is this argument based on?

 

[magbarn]

You were the one lying that we wouldn't notice when this entire thread is discussing exactly that. Apple is deliberately choosing to remain stagnant while its competitors are pushing its base specs and leaving them in the dust.

In light of Apple's move towards non-serviceability in their products, legislation should be exercised to make this illegal. This is to prevent price gouging and to reduce E waste.

I guess we can hope the EU can rescue us like they rescued us from lightning. Even Samsung has made LPCAMM memory modules that will be available next year which allow modular & USER upgradable memory using LPDDR5 modules capable of 7500 speeds which are even faster than the 6400 LPDDR5 that Apple is using on the M3 series. They should either require the manufacturer to use modular memory and storage or they have to allow reasonable upgrade prices in which they would swap out the logic board.

 

[avkills]

So? Extending your argument, all iPhones should come with 2TB storage too?

We are not talking about iPhones. The entire mobile phone industry is idiotic IMO. Let's please stay on topic.

 

[bobcomer]

Buyers can easily buy more RAM

Can they though -- what's at the store? Only the bottom, or can you get an upgraded one? Most people would rather buy big item stuff in person, not on the web, where you usually even need to wait longer for a BTO.