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Great, but what about Swap? Only launching Xcode on this machine M1, Air, 8gb RAM, 256gb SSD, make Swapping up to 20gb. That’s huge! I’d a chance to talk one of the Apple technician, and he confirmed, they received a lot of macs M cpu series because of dead logic board (ssd).
Don't know your use case since I don't use XCode nor have an idea of your project's size, but it sounds like a software bug to me if your projects are light or don't use a lot of hi-res graphics and animations for the GUI. I stopped using Chrome less than two or three months after getting the M1 Air because it was taking way too much RAM space when compared to Safari. No performance hits, just bothersome because I read about it around the web and started monitoring it and confirmed it using Activity Monitor. Google probably has sorted this bug out by now. I just don't care for that browser anymore. As a parenthesis, reading all the comments on this and other threads... a lot of users have really bad computer usage habits, or don't know how to troubleshoot a platform let it be a Windows or macOS PC. That's the real "tragedy" simplified devices like tablets and smart phones left behind. I'm not saying you are one of them.

Now, for the workload I posted, the swap file size was around 2.86GB. I've had this laptop for maybe a bit more than a year and a half, no problems at all regarding SSD performance or reliability, and don't use external drives for recording and virtual instruments samples or loops. I do use it unplugged a lot, and even though I have not noticed CPU performance hits while on battery, the health indicator today states the battery is in normal condition with 86% charging capacity. When new, I remember a single charge could last me for 2 and a half days even when powering my USB audio interface for a couple hours at home at night. Now it's down to one and a half days. 6 to 8 hours once or twice a week if workload was really heavy AutoCAD usage and video editing during the day. The main tasks I use the laptop for are AutoCAD 2D with mild 3D drafting, spreadsheets, word processor, and photo+video reports for MEP project management. Music I do as a very involved hobby and revolves around Logic Pro and Live as DAWs, NeuralDSP guitar/bass plugins, Arturia V collection virtual instruments, a bunch of Waves analog emulation plugins, two MIDI controllers (Arturia Keylab 61 MKII and a Launchpad X,) a 4-input USB 24bit/192KHz interface, 2 condenser mics, 2 Presonus monitors, and one dynamic mic. I've been able to record real drum kits, real guitar and bass amps, voice and all, as well as writing complete arrangements using only virtual instruments. This laptop handles all of it quite well with very little CPU usage and no SSD stress. If I were to use heavy sample libraries and more than 8 audio inputs, yes. I would definitely get a +16GB RAM laptop. But I don't, which is the real point. 8GB is more than enough for me.
 
Depends on where/when it prevents use. In this case the RAM limitation will stop most multitasking or any sort of heavy use, which means the bottleneck in this case is making the purchase of a fast CPU somewhat pointless.
Is this based on conventional wisdom, or from actually trying to do it?

As was discussed in the recent episode of the ATP podcast, Apple Silicon is overpowered for most people's use, just like the CPU in an iPhone. The bottleneck that is RAM is only an issue if it makes it slower than competition (for the tasks it is designed for). So, does it?
 
This comes down to why a SOC is better then current PC tech... So if your video card has 11GB of memory, this has to be somewhat reserved in system memory, because unless you have the best graphics cards that can talk directly to CPU, the CPU writes to memory and that is copied to the graphics card, this process does not take place in a SOC, the components can both directly talk to memory. So this is true in the technical sense that 8gb on a mac operates better then 16gb on a PC because of how it manages memory.
The Commodore Amiga was doing what you're describing which is DMA (Direct Memory Access) in 1985... its custom co-processors (Agnus, Denise, Paula) were capable of DMA where the CPU could load data into memory (eg a MOD audio file) and then, for example, point the Paula (audio processor chip) at that memory location and tell it to play and the CPU could go do its other business (OS, windowing system, program code, etc) without further involvement.
 
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So? Extending your argument, all iPhones should come with 2TB storage too?
I dont think the price differential on SSD's is quite as good as small amounts of RAM, but yeah, if a 2TB is just as cheap as a 512GB to make, darn right they should all come with 2TB. It'd be a good selling point even if it weren't quite as cheap to make.
 
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Hopefully with the negative worldwide attention Apple have drawn from selling a base MacBook Pro, which costs over $2,000 in most places, with only 8GB of RAM and no upgrade path, they may be forced to change their tune, as those beating the drums will only get larger in numbers and noisier.
 
I do wish the EU would enshrine a certain level of modularity with computers and cars, as part of the right to repair laws, so that manufacturers can't pull such anti-environment, anti-consumer bull***t like soldered RAM and soldered memory. The negatives massively outweigh the positives, and we all know Apple and others don't do it to benefit consumers.
 
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If the memory was user-upgradeable, the base price will just be increased. Apple won't give up the ASP that easily.
 
A $399 asus laptop can achieve the same goals of a grandma using an apple silicon Mac as her plucky asus.
We’ve browsing, YouTube, making her calendar have cats on it.
Yea it can and does every day without your grievances.

Yes the apple silicon Mac is great. But every single one is over priced. And kneecapped by ram unless you upgrade for incredibly over inflated prices. I love them, but they are over priced.
You could also say that your granny could use a pen with a paper pad calendar and a 21" HD screen with a DVD player for her usage, so Apple Silicon Macs are overpriced.
What you really mean is that you want Apple to agree with your budget constraints and under your scope conditions. Not gonna happen. They have way more information than you do regarding price tier classification and scopes for their products to make informed business decisions and make money.
 
I do wish the EU would enshrine a certain level of modularity with computers and cars, as part of the right to repair laws, so that manufacturers can't pull such anti-environment, anti-consumer bull***t like soldered RAM and soldered memory. The negatives massively outweigh the positives, and we all know Apple and others don't do it to benefit consumers.
This is going to be a massively difficult thing to define in legislation.
 
The entry level Lenovo laptops are horrible. We get them all the time for rentals. They work for what we use them for, but I would never buy one in a million years.
I actually agree with that -- but the higher end thinkpad and yogas are actually really nice machines.
 
Lenovo's are not all black plastic, though I rather like the black plastic ones -- they're lighter than the aluminum ones.
I was making a sarcastic comment, which clearly worked better in my head. Yes they make non-black versions, but if you're not an expert, you can totally get a 400 USD one that from a distance looks like a 4000 USD one (or vice-versa), unless you're an expert. I didn't learn until much later how much the one my company gave me actually cost, and I was very surprised to learn how expensive it was. Not just based on performance, but on feel of use. Other than feeling more solid, there's not much visual or feel-able difference between mine and my sons base-level Lenovo. But, I admit that I just don't care enough about them to pay closer attention.
 
And if cost isn't a factor, OF COURSE buy the higher-specd apple computer. But who buys their kids the higher spec'd Apple computers except those for whom cost is not a factor?
Those that understand their kid's needs. Personally, I wouldn't buy any kid of mine (if I had one) an Apple, I'd buy a cheaper Windows PC -- unless they express that they wanted a Mac, and then I'd buy what they need. And I'm not rich -- but I do take my computer buying seriously! :)
 
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The issue is calling it a “Pro” machine since that implies it will run software for developers and creatives. Comparing it to PCs shouldn’t be the criteria. There should at least be an asterisk that if you are a pro then the starting “pro” model stocked in stores is the “M3 Pro”.

How much could it really cost to start the MacBook Pro lineup at 16GB. One would think 16GB would be the standard base by now.
Why do people get so hung up on a name? It's an industry thing. The MacBook Pro base can do A LOT more than these crappy surface devices can.

Surface Pro 9
$1,399.99
Microsoft SQ® 3
5G
Platinum
8GB RAM
256GB SSD
 
Why do people get so hung up on a name? It's an industry thing. The MacBook Pro base can do A LOT more than these crappy surface devices can.

Surface Pro 9
$1,399.99
Microsoft SQ® 3
5G
Platinum
8GB RAM
256GB SSD

No they cannot. That thing is a tablet and a MBP cannot do those things that a Surface Pro 9 can.
 
No they cannot. That thing is a tablet and a MBP cannot do those things that a Surface Pro 9 can.
Tablet is not a professional action. Video editing is. These devices are atrocious for that, but even the base MacBook Pro runs just well on video editing.
 
So... Running Outlook on a "pro" tablet with 8GB of RAM is perfectly fine, but running Outlook on a "pro" laptop is unusable?
Yeah....I thought the whole rants lately is "NO PRO DEVICE SHOULD HAVE 8GB!!!!!". Well,......Surface PRO......
 
So... Running Outlook on a "pro" tablet with 8GB of RAM is perfectly fine, but running Outlook on a "pro" laptop is unusable?

Let's extend it to smartphones.

So... Running Outlook on a "pro" iPhone 15 Pro Max with 8GB of RAM is perfectly fine, but running Outlook on a "pro" laptop is unusable?

And that is indeed the joke. You have to use a MacBook Pro like an iPhone 15 Pro Max to not run out of memory.
 
Yeah....I thought the whole rants lately is "NO PRO DEVICE SHOULD HAVE 8GB!!!!!". Well,......Surface PRO......

Have fun using your laptop like a smartphone. I actually tested the iMac today in the Apple Store with 8 GB RAM and swap happened pretty fast.

Basically have to use this thing like my iPhone 15 Pro Max.
 
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I see many say that 8 is not equal to 16. But what max tech compared is 2 MacBooks, one with 8 and one with 16. But that is not what apple is saying, its saying 8 on a MacBook is the same as 16 on let’s say a windows system. So they should compare it to a windows 16gb system with around the same specs. And that is of course difficult to do.

Before we make any conclusions, I would like to see that.
Good point there. But also, this just shows how ridiculous the Max tech channel has become. Back when M1 era released they were one of the most vocal people saying how amazing 8GB is and how it acts like 16GB. NOW they just want to hop on the Apple hate bandwagon for views.
 
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This is going to be a massively difficult thing to define in legislation.
Never said it was easy. 😅 But it is doable. I have engineers in my family that grasp the topic better than me, and if they can see straightforward ways of doing it it isn't impossible. RAM/storage should be removable and replaceable without incredible difficulty, in the same way that a car shouldn't require a specialist $700 tool to remove an oil filter just because the manufacturer made it so a bespoke tool is mandatory for no reason other than creating obstacles for independent garages and enthusiasts.
 
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Adding to my last comment- batteries in laptops could easily also be designed to be replaceable in under 5 minutes, using nothing but a screwdriver. Instead it's more likely that when screws are used they use 8 different bespoke lengths and you will destroy your computer if you screw the wrong one back into the wrong slot...
 
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