8GB RAM in M3 MacBook Pro Proves the Bottleneck in Real-World Tests

[Velli]

Let's extend it to smartphones.

So... Running Outlook on a "pro" iPhone 15 Pro Max with 8GB of RAM is perfectly fine, but running Outlook on a "pro" laptop is unusable?

And that is indeed the joke. You have to use a MacBook Pro like an iPhone 15 Pro Max to not run out of memory.

Eh... I'm not sure who you are arguing against right now. I'm the one saying that yes, it is perfectly fine to run Outlook on both. I'm also saying that yes, some people work PROfessionally by using not much more than email and a web browser, and perhaps some Excel files. You can go join the arrogant group of people who don't consider that "real work".

Oh, and by the way, I notice the lack of memory on my phone a lot more than I do on my laptop. I am pretty sure that the things I do on my phone regularly, requires more memory than the things I do on my laptop. That may be a joke to dinosaur IT professionals, but that is the direction so-called normal people have taken. I live on my phone. My laptop is just an MS Office delivery device. I just checked, I have used 28 different apps on my phone today. Not counting the Powerpoint test I did earlier, on my laptop I have used two. Had it been a workday, I'd probably have used Outlook, Excel, Edge, and Powerpoint. That's all I used this week, if memory serves.

I guess I should have just used pen and paper.

 

[ric22]

As if Apple's M-series SOC's don't provide any benefits that derive from a more tightly controlled build process?

The benefits are hugely outweighed by the anti-environmental and anti-consumer issues caused by the RAM not being replaceable/upgradable.

 

[Zest28]

Eh... I'm not sure who you are arguing against right now. I'm the one saying that yes, it is perfectly fine to run Outlook on both. I'm also saying that yes, some people work PROfessionally by using not much more than email and a web browser, and perhaps some Excel files. You can go join the arrogant group of people who don't consider that "real work".

Oh, and by the way, I notice the lack of memory on my phone a lot more than I do on my laptop. I am pretty sure that the things I do on my phone regularly, requires more memory than the things I do on my laptop. That may be a joke to dinosaur IT professionals, but that is the direction so-called normal people have taken. I live on my phone. My laptop is just an MS Office delivery device. I just checked, I have used 28 different apps on my phone today. Not counting the Powerpoint test I did earlier, on my laptop I have used two. Had it been a workday, I'd probably have used Outlook, Excel, Edge, and Powerpoint. That's all I used this week, if memory serves.

I guess I should have just used pen and paper.

I don't know what company you work for, but spending $1600 on a laptop with the same RAM limits as an iPhone makes no sense at all. It means you do not need a powerful laptop for work so you could also use a very cheap laptop.

I won't say which company, but there is a huge company which now only gives out MacBook Pro's to it's engineers and everybody else get's cheap laptops as it makes more economically sense.

 

[chucker23n1]

So... Running Outlook on a "pro" tablet with 8GB of RAM is perfectly fine, but running Outlook on a "pro" laptop is unusable?

I mean, yes, partially? macOS has more resource overhead due to more capabilities. iPadOS is generally quite aggressive about quitting background tasks. So yes, running the same app will require more system resources.

 

[Manzanito]

So... Running Outlook on a "pro" tablet with 8GB of RAM is perfectly fine, but running Outlook on a "pro" laptop is unusable?

Maybe it’s fine on a tablet OS and not on a computer OS.

 

[ProfessionalFan]

And that guy is no Apple hater.

Yeah this is one of the funniest/weirdest things I am seeing from negative comments about this video. People are calling Vadim an Apple hater, but I see him often called an Apple fanboy. Fact is, he is neither but it's likely more towards a fan if I had to pick one. He is just being objective in his reporting here.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Yeah this is one of the funniest/weirdest things I am seeing from negative comments about this video. People are calling Vadim an Apple hater, but I see him often called an Apple fanboy. Fact is, he is neither but it's likely more towards a fan if I had to pick one. He is just being objective in his reporting here.

He is a clickbait revenue YouTube artist.

 

[boak]

The new video just shows how hypocritical he is. All just click-baits.

 

[Kal Madda]

No way that happens, but since we don't have any proof, it might be better not to speak such generalities.

I'll just say, no way what you said is true in my experience, and I do use Macs and PC's daily. Have you even used a modern 16G PC?

Any kind of test is going to be hard, because they don't have the exact same software, even though they may be called the same, but still, a 16G PC is going to do well, in my experience, of course.

I’ve personally tested both, and they both performed about equally well. And I’ve also seen plenty of comparisons between 16GB RAM Prior-Gen Intel machines vs 8GB RAM M1 MacBooks, and even with 8GB of RAM, the M1 MacBook was able to actually slightly outperform the 16GB Intel MacBook. So I know that it does in fact happen, and many others in this thread have had the same experience when they compared as well. 👍🏻

 

[Ethosik]

I mean, yes, partially? macOS has more resource overhead due to more capabilities. iPadOS is generally quite aggressive about quitting background tasks. So yes, running the same app will require more system resources.

Maybe it’s fine on a tablet OS and not on a computer OS.

The comparison was from Microsoft Surface which is running Windows 11....not a Tablet-only operating system like iPadOS.

 

[Kal Madda]

Streaming 20 video streams relies on hardware decoders and is more a reflection of the horrible Intel GPUs (even the discrete AMD GPU's they were using before the switchover were not top tier) that Apple was using before Apple Silicon rather than a reflection of memory management.

The specked up MacBook Pro it was running against has at least an i7 possibly i9, and definitely has a dedicated GPU. You can claim “terrible GPUs” which is completely subjective, and without sourcing for your claims, but the thing is, it’s a high-end Intel chip with double the RAM and a dedicated GPU (something I’ve seen people generally say is better for graphics intensive processes). It’s a very expensive Intel MacBook Pro, and the MacBook Air with half its RAM but an M1 chip was able to beat it.

 

[magbarn]

The specked up MacBook Pro it was running against has at least an i7 possibly i9, and definitely has a dedicated GPU. You can claim “terrible GPUs” which is completely subjective, and without sourcing for your claims, but the thing is, it’s a high-end Intel chip with double the RAM and a dedicated GPU (something I’ve seen people generally say is better for graphics intensive processes). It’s a very expensive Intel MacBook Pro, and the MacBook Air with half its RAM but an M1 chip was able to beat it.

It is not subjective, it is fact that AS has superior video decoding/encoding capabilities. The best Apple dGPU they ever used in a macbook pro was the 5600M in 2019 MBP 16 i9 and that was just decent for gaming. Apple silicon has its faults when it comes to gaming, but no one disputes the much better video processing AS has vs. the AMD GPU's that Apple was using. Besides, unless you're forcing macos to use the dGPU, it will default to the iGPU unless you're using an external screen, gaming or the app calls for it like photoshop. So likely your friend was just using the anemic iGPU. I had a 2019 i9 max configuration and the igpu was trash, the dgpu was a bit better, at the cost of massive battery drain. The lowly M1 blows away the 5500M GPU that my 2019 had in anything video processing related.

Also streaming isn't very ram intensive unless there is no built in hardware decoding for the codec.

 

[snak-atak]

Nobody would complain if Apple took away the 8gb option. Stop lying.

Nobody’s lying here. Speaking from experience, we have 2 M1 Airs with 8gb. My kids use them and they work perfectly. They check their social media, watch YouTube, and do their homework (Canvas, Word, Excel, PPT).

If they took away that option, we would have to pay the extra $200 per Mac for no reason. Maybe not you, but for some households, that could break the bank.

 

[bobcomer]

I’ve personally tested both, and they both performed about equally well. And I’ve also seen plenty of comparisons between 16GB RAM Prior-Gen Intel machines vs 8GB RAM M1 MacBooks, and even with 8GB of RAM, the M1 MacBook was able to actually slightly outperform the 16GB Intel MacBook. So I know that it does in fact happen, and many others in this thread have had the same experience when they compared as well. 👍🏻

That's good that you have experience with both. But we're just datapoints and I need lots of RAM for what I do. My smallest machine currently is 32G and it goes up from there.

There really isn't anything magical about RAM in either type of machine, it takes what it takes, and both are very similar under the hood with regards to paging/swapping/memory handling. Unless you go way back before modern virtual memory. .

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Pro means there is something extra over the base model. For example, the iPhone pro has better cameras, promotion and screen than the normal iPhone. The iPad Pro has better speakers, display and processor than the iPad or iPad Air. AirPods Pro has noise cancellation.

The MacBook Pro has a wider port selection and (now) a better processor than the MBA.

It’s funny how people are totally making up their own definition of “pro” and attacking that, not realising how totally ridiculous they look.

Agreed, except that the MBP provides more than just more ports: better display, better speakers, more available RAM (a huge plus), more memory bandwidth, AV1 decode, up to 8 TB SSD, WiFi 6E (quite relevant in my world) and supports up to four external displays instead of just one. MBP life cycles will be longer if equipped with proper RAM, not just the least available. MBP cons are that the MBP weighs 0.65 kg more and has only two colors available. The MBP is a far more competent computer than an MBA, so it costs more.

This deserves to be laughed at. It's not just a 'very elite' group that's complaining, it's just us you're interacting with here... there are many beyond this forum. The fact there's a significant sample size out there mostly agreeing this pitiful RAM base line and Apple gouging customers for upgrades that cannot be changed later... kinda defeats your argument.

I may be one of those that don't need 16 GB but I'm absolutely not going to gamble on an expensive computer that I'm going to want to keep for more than five years and settle for what I only need now. I actually don't need 512 GB of storage, but the security of having more than you need IS part of the user experience.

You are correct: a significant sample size whines that they want more for the same price. So what? They can buy the cheaper (IMO crap) PC alternatives if that is critically important to them. Meantime Apple can service the rest of us willing to pay for higher end products.

Note also that in my casual price comparison at the high laptop end the top Sony Vaio has always cost similar to the top end MBPs. I of course prefer the MBP but some others prefer the Sony (usually because they learned Win long ago at work and find it most comfortable today).

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Nobody’s lying here. Speaking from experience, we have 2 M1 Airs with 8gb. My kids use them and they work perfectly. They check their social media, watch YouTube, and do their homework (Canvas, Word, Excel, PPT).

If they took away that option, we would have to pay the extra $200 per Mac for no reason. Maybe not you, but for some households, that could break the bank.

Well said. And IMO K-12 is a critical market Apple should be bending over backward to service. Much more than just edu discounting.

 

[tjrchka]

If one does a lot of work, and makes money with a computer, invest in the right tool for the job. 8GB doesn't cut it, 16GB+ realistically will.
If you are a professional, you know this (or should, know your tools!). The 14" M3 Macbook Pro has an 14" XDR display (pro) and more ports (pro). Some folks believe they need a "pro" so this is for those folks, they don't want an Air, even though with Apple silicon the Macbook Air is a fantastic option. This is the Proish model, Macbook Air Plus?

Really a professional should purchase the M3 Pro model with 3x Thunderbolt 4 ports, faster memory bandwidth, 2 external display support. Even grabbing a 14" M2 Pro/Max would be a great deal found on sale.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Yeah....I thought the whole rants lately is "NO PRO DEVICE SHOULD HAVE 8GB!!!!!". Well,......Surface PRO......

Now you are just being silly, manipulating the words. The point is that buying 8 GB today is suitable for lowest end usages, duh, but is limiting for future expansion into more demanding usages during the life cycle of the new box.

And the fact of the word pro being used many different ways has been well discussed. Silly capitalization (shouting) just makes the poster look silly.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

If one does a lot of work, and makes money with a computer, invest in the right tool for the job. 8GB doesn't cut it, 16GB+ realistically will.
If you are a professional, you know this (or should, know your tools!). The 14" M3 Macbook Pro has an 14" XDR display (pro) and more ports (pro). Some folks believe they need a "pro" so this is for those folks, they don't want an Air, even though with Apple silicon the Macbook Air is a fantastic option. This is the Proish model, Macbook Air Plus?

Really a professional should purchase the M3 Pro model with 3x Thunderbolt 4 ports, faster memory bandwidth, 2 external display support. Even grabbing a 14" M2 Pro/Max would be a great deal found on sale.

IMO M2 Max is a far better choice than M3 Pro for higher end work. The M2 Max chip is much stronger than the M3 Pro chip.

 

[redheeler]

So I suppose that 8GB on a Mac are not equal to 16GB on a PC.

Apple actually went and claimed that. I felt so ashamed as an Apple Silicon user.

As if Apple thinks MacOS is a lightweight Linux or something. I'm kind of just shaking my head and accepting my fate is to move to the Linux ecosystem. Things like iMessage will become less convenient for me but oh well. I'd rather have some control over my hardware and software than no control.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Never said it was easy. 😅 But it is doable. I have engineers in my family that grasp the topic better than me, and if they can see straightforward ways of doing it it isn't impossible. RAM/storage should be removable and replaceable without incredible difficulty, in the same way that a car shouldn't require a specialist $700 tool to remove an oil filter just because the manufacturer made it so a bespoke tool is mandatory for no reason other than creating obstacles for independent garages and enthusiasts.

Obviously you are not the engineer. Putting RAM physically close (baked on the chip) is much better for reasons of physics, and is not removable and replaceable without incredible difficulty. Unlike car oil filters, chip architecture is measured in nanometer scale, TSMC currently making Apple's M3 on an ~3nm process. Read up on Unified Memory Architecture.

Edit: Forced standards are loathsome for tech, because they discourage the innovation that is essential to tech. E.g. if the EU had been a strong entity in 1983 when everyone used floppy disks and decided to regulate disk storage to be floppies, then-fledgeling Apple would have been unable to lead the world to (superior) diskettes for the few next decades. Personally I am appalled that the EU has put itself into the tech standardizing business; USB-C should live or die on its own merits.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

That's good that you have experience with both. But we're just datapoints and I need lots of RAM for what I do. My smallest machine currently is 32G and it goes up from there.

There really isn't anything magical about RAM in either type of machine, it takes what it takes, and both are very similar under the hood with regards to paging/swapping/memory handling. Unless you go way back before modern virtual memory. .

Wrong. Y'all need to read: Unified Memory Architecture is different.

 

[boak]

There really isn't anything magical about RAM in either type of machine, it takes what it takes, and both are very similar under the hood with regards to paging/swapping/memory handling.

No. Unified memory is not RAM, e.g. dGPU cannot access data in the RAM directly.

 

[chucker23n1]

The comparison was from Microsoft Surface which is running Windows 11....not a Tablet-only operating system like iPadOS.

Hold up. Didn’t you just argue “The MacBook Pro base can do A LOT more than these crappy surface devices can.”?

Which is it?

 

[Kal Madda]

It is not subjective, it is fact that AS has superior video decoding/encoding capabilities. The best Apple dGPU they ever used in a macbook pro was the 5600M in 2019 MBP 16 i9 and that was just decent for gaming. Apple silicon has its faults when it comes to gaming, but no one disputes the much better video processing AS has vs. the AMD GPU's that Apple was using. Besides, unless you're forcing macos to use the dGPU, it will default to the iGPU unless you're using an external screen, gaming or the app calls for it like photoshop. So likely your friend was just using the anemic iGPU. I had a 2019 i9 max configuration and the igpu was trash, the dgpu was a bit better, at the cost of massive battery drain. The lowly M1 blows away the 5500M GPU that my 2019 had in anything video processing related.

Also streaming isn't very ram intensive unless there is no built in hardware decoding for the codec.

I wasn’t talking about whether Apple Silicon has superior graphics or not vs Intel, because I’m sure that’s the case. But 20 video tabs open in RAM consuming browsers does absolutely use a decent amount of RAM.